On Saturday, I test drove a Nissan Leaf ...

[Kennah]

... and that is one sweet little ride.

Our 17 month old was fussy and not feeling well, so he and the wife didn't go for the test drive. I think I can get a car seat, a booster, and a nine year old in the back without squishing all three.

We drove it in Eco mode, which is geared down for low speed driving, and it did just fine. For city or around town driving, I would probably keep it in Eco mode. While we were driving, the Nissan rep said, "OK, now I'm going to switch it from Eco to Drive", and the car noticeably pulled away. Another of the reps had said earlier, "I'll deny it if you test Nissan Corporate, but if you punch it you can chirp the tires." I believe it. Acceleration was smooth and strong.

I won't be trading our minivan for a Leaf, but as a second car I want one. It's cozy, but very functional and not a golf cart. My wife complained the car looked bug-eyed, but I really like the bug-eyed look to the Leaf.

It was a chilly day so the heater was on. The fan was on low, and it was very toasty warm inside.

My nine year old was playing around with the display on one of the parked units. I didn't muck with it much, but it seems fairly intuitive from watching him.

The "Approaching Vehicle Sound" was switched off, but I rather like what I hear.
http://nissan-leaf.net/2010/06/11/nissan-leaf-sound-revealed/

[joshcryer]

1. I dunno, everything you said was great, but I really am not digging that sound at all.

I know it's for safety reasons (since electric vehicles are going to be very quiet), but yeah. I hope it'll be customizable on all these electric vehicles.

[ananda]

2. They're pretty expensive but look nice.

nt

[joshcryer]

3. The price will come down. I want to get my hands on one of these EVs.

Would love to see how easy / hard they are to fix / repair. (Though they should last long enough that repairs should be the least of ones concerns, brakes may be the only thing you have to worry about for the life of a given vehicle.)

[jberryhill]

4. When more people find out that electric motors supply as much torque as you give them current...

...then the cat is going to be out of the bag on performance.

F = <J> X <B>

[gateley]

8. They should test drive a Tesla -- 0 to 60 in under 4 seconds. nt

[formercia]

14. World's Fastest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_ukLgsGEzs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRpMV-Gf0hA&NR=1

World's fastest street legal car:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=369h-SEBXd8&feature=related

[joshcryer]

16. 0-60 in .8 seconds, haha.

[formercia]

5. In reverse, it sounds like a garbage truck

or some commercial vehicle.

[gateley]

10. But at least you dont have emissions coming out of the tailpipe when you're

backing up.

[gateley]

6. II would LOVE one of those! Thanks for the review. Ideally I'd

like to bypass the hybrids and go straight to electric, and since I can't afford a Tesla...

I read recently that the Chevy Volt isn't "true all-electric". And the cost! Why can't we get our act together? It would be nice to buy American, but since they refuse to give us what other companies seem to be able to, I'd go for the environment as my deciding point.

Let us know when you get it and give us reports of how much you LOVE it! :hi:

[Kennah]

20. Volt is a totally different animal

It's a series hybrid plugin, but GM has dubbed it an EREV (Extended Range Electric Vehicle). It really not a bullshit, market hyped description.

EVs require infrastructure, but plugin hybrids (like the Volt and the 2012 Ford Escape hybrid plugin) bridge the gap until that infrastructure is built.

[FirstLight]

7. I want one...!

seriously closer to the flying car concept, eh? the approaching sound totally sounds like a space mobile...the backup beeps are annoying!

How long have they been on the market? I have heard anytime there is a new model or technology, you should wait a couple seasons while they 'get the bugs out'

thanks for the info, looks like fun, wish i had a JOB and could even THINK about buying a new car... *sigh*

[dpbrown]

9. I will never buy a silent car that adds noise needlessly

Is this some kind of poison pill for people who want to buy for the environment?

I'm I'm walking silently, it's my responsibility not to run into someone who can't hear me. Same with driving. This corporate poison pill is bullshit.

[gateley]

11. I never assume I'm 'safe' because someone can hear me coming.

[joshcryer]

12. The sound additions are actually proposed by blind associations.

While I completely agree with you, and given that most red lights now have noise indicators (a buzzing sound when you are free to go), you can't really blame the corporations for this crappy addition.

I just hope it can be changed and we can standardize the sound that we echo, especially, for instance, while driving on the interstate or whatever.

[jberryhill]

13. My blind daughter would prefer not to rely on your attentiveness /nt

[joshcryer]

15. Here we go: Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 2010

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s3302/show

Makes EVs be more audible.

[Kennah]

19. It's a real issue, but not an overblown issue

Dr. Lawrence Rosenblum, UC Riverside, has studied the issue.
http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/17557

Here are snippets.

... hybrid cars operating at very slow speeds must be 40 percent closer to pedestrians than combustion-engine vehicles before their location can be audibly detected
...
At speeds above 20 to 25 miles per hour hybrid cars likely generate enough tire and aerodynamic noise to make them sufficiently audible
...
We are not talking about major changes to the way automobiles are designed, but about slightly increasing their audibility when they are traveling slowly. Only a subtle sound enhancement should be required.

[kestrel91316]

21. Silent vehicles pose a hazard for the visually impaired, who have every right

to walk down the street just like sighted people. The sound is for their benefit, and also for sighted people who might have a moment's inattention.

[StandingInLeftField]

23. "...moment's inattenion..." lol!

I just about run over a college student with his/her nose buried in his/her phone every other day in the downtown where I work - and I've got an old, loud Nissan Pathfinder! I think the college needs to offer "Remedial Walking 101." :shrug: ;)

[kestrel91316]

25. As the one propelling a ton of steel down the street it is YOUR obligation to

yield right of way to pedestrians when they have the right of way, and not go barreling over them heedlessly when they don't.

[old mark]

27. If someone is smart enough to be in college, they should know to

check for traffic before crossing the street, and not rely on someone else...who may also be on a cell...


mark

[Nihil]

30. There is no hazard while the visually impaired (or fully sighted) person ...

... stays on the pavement (sidewalk).

If they step onto the road in front of a vehicle (electric or otherwise)
then they will receive the benefit of a standard acoustic warning device
in exactly the same way (i.e., without discrimination between "visually
impaired" and "sighted but stupid"). What's more, that standard acoustic
warning device is already fitted to every road-worthy vehicle manufactured
in the last century (or more).

:shrug:

Every driver is still responsible for their actions in being aware of the
potential for pedestrians (or other road users) to be stupid and that applies
whether their vehicle is revving a petrol engine, knocking away at a diesel,
whispering on an electric or free-wheeling with the passengers going "Whoo-Whoo!"
out of the window ...

(Edit for typo ... "discriminination"?!)

[Tesha]

32. At an unsignalized crossing, how does a blind person know not to step off the sidewalk...

...into the path of a silent car?

Do you honk at every white cane you see?

Tesha

[Nihil]

34. Did you read .19 upthread?

>> ... hybrid cars operating at very slow speeds must be 40 percent closer
>> to pedestrians than combustion-engine vehicles before their location
>> can be audibly detected
>> ...
>> At speeds above 20 to 25 miles per hour hybrid cars likely generate
>> enough tire and aerodynamic noise to make them sufficiently audible
>> ...

When the speed is slow enough that the "silent" vehicle is 40% closer than
the "standard" vehicle before being noticed, the remaining 60% is still
real - i.e., it is space for reaction, warning & braking which, at that
slow speed, will preserve the safety margin.

The most critical times that this comes into play will be when manoeuvring
in car-parks, pulling away from a stop and coasting to a stop (and note that
in the third case, there is precious little noise from a conventional car).

As a hybrid driver, I am very well aware that - especially in car-parks - there
is a high risk of someone simply not noticing that you are moving and so I have
to drive accordingly. In addition, our local supermarket is practically next
door to a set of old folks bungalow (warden-managed but still allowing independence
rather than a full-care home environment) so I am very used to having to pay
attention to people blithely wandering across the car-park rather than following
the path around the edge ...


> how does a blind person know not to step off the sidewalk...
> ...into the path of a silent car?

The same way that they "know" not to step off the sidewalk into the path of
a "non-silent" car that is 40% further away.

:shrug:


> Do you honk at every white cane you see?

No. Is it a common sport down your way?

[XemaSab]

24. Bicyclists like cars with some noise too

If there's something flanking you, you need to be aware of it.

Maybe once there are more silent cars on the road, the way things are done will change, but cars with no noise right now are scary and dangerous for pedestrians and bicyclists.

[drm604]

17. I just picked up my new 2010 Honda Insight this weekend.

I'm loving it so far. One thing it doesn't seem to have is any kind of artificial "approaching vehicle sound".

I'm not sure that it needs it since the Insight uses "Integrated Motor Assist". The way I understand it, the electric motor adds torque to the gas engine but never drives the car exclusively. So I suppose it has the normal external engine sounds that a regular car has.

However, I am concerned that the smaller gas engine may not be as loud as a normal one. Also, the gas engine does usually shut off completely at stop lights and sometimes stop signs. When this happens the electric motor spins it up when you start out so I'm wondering how quiet I am when I start out after a stop.

[joshcryer]

18. Found this YouTube review, very nice car, congrats:

You can hear it a bit when it's driving, so I guess that's their justification.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn9uA4mg_ho

[drm604]

22. Mine is an EX like the one shown in the video.

All of the instrumentation, ABS, stability and traction control, automatic environment control, cruise control, etc. are standard.

I didn't realize the side mirrors folded! I'm not sure how useful that is except maybe in some unusual tight parking situations, but if a space is so tight that I have to fold the mirrors, how would I get out of the car?

The guy in the video complained about the carpeting. I haven't really looked at that closely (I guess I will now!) but I got it with all weather mats because we can have some hard winters, so they should help to prevent wear. The other thing I got that he didn't appear to have is the cargo cover, which hides things in the cargo area from prying eyes so people are less tempted to smash and grab if I'm carrying something worth stealing.

[Tesha]

33. Our Audi has fold-in mirrors and we actually have used that feature occasionally.

One situation you might use it in is parking on a busy
street so your mirror doesn't stick out into the bicycle
area.

Tesha

[drm604]

37. I checked the mirrors on my car

and as far as I can tell they don't fold. I guess that's not a standard option.

[notesdev]

26. There was a big controversy about the Leaf

it will blow over

[joshcryer]

28. Haha, you've been waiting to use that, haven't you?

[jberryhill]

29. Already one fatal accident reported - Owner Turned Over A New Leaf /nt

[joshcryer]

31. Oh now that was just bad.

:rofl:

[madokie]

35. the forward sound sounds like a jet going over

and the other one sounds like they're fixing to bury me. wtf
I only hear out of one ear so I can't tell the direction sound comes from and both those sounds make me want to look up not down to see if a car is fixing to run my ass over. How silly is that???

[Kennah]

36. A couple of new numbers I heard

On the 100 mile range, which is the thing everyone wants to know about, the Nissan folks said in the testing which has been done they've gotten between 62 and 138 miles, depending upon conditions. I can't help but observe that 62 is exactly 38 less than 100 and 138 is exactly 38 more than 100. That makes me a little skeptical, but I know that other EVs have delivered surprisingly good results.

Also, when I talked to Nissan folks last year when the Leaf came to the Seattle Center, they'd said the Level 2 charger (240V) may be able to recharge the vehicle fully in 4 hours with a 40A panel. However, they now say it's an 8 hour recharge, from a fully discharged battery, with a Level 2 charger.