$25,000, 350-mile-per-charge electric car

[SHRED]

EV's in full gear now.


Batteries are the "heart" of electric vehicles, he said, adding that the Department of Energy is funding research that will drop the cost of electric-vehicle batteries 50% in the next three or four years and double or triple their energy density within six years so "you can go from Los Angeles to Las Vegas on a single charge," he said. "These are magical distances. To buy a car that will cost $20,000 to $25,000 without a subsidy where you can go 350 miles is our goal."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2011/05/la-ev-charging-stations.html





http://www.ford.com/electric/focuselectric/2012/


---

[kristopher]

1. Here is a sample of what is in the pipeline...

Stanford Report, December 18, 2007
Nanowire battery can hold 10 times the charge of existing lithium-ion battery

BY DAN STOBER

Stanford researchers have found a way to use silicon nanowires to reinvent the rechargeable lithium-ion batteries that power laptops, iPods, video cameras, cell phones, and countless other devices.

The new technology, developed through research led by Yi Cui, assistant professor of materials science and engineering, produces 10 times the amount of electricity of existing lithium-ion, known as Li-ion, batteries. A laptop that now runs on battery for two hours could operate for 20 hours, a boon to ocean-hopping business travelers.

"It's not a small improvement," Cui said. "It's a revolutionary development."

The breakthrough is described in a paper...

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908.html

[Newest Reality]

2. That will certainly

be a relief to the burgeoning Underclass that is what America is becoming behind the wonderful projections of the Simulation that presents reality to you as corporate America decides it to be.

We are living in a world that is close to what you would call "tribal" but we are up against what the early tribes had to deal with when Western "civilization" came along to decimate that way of life and replace it with a delusional idea of a religious purpose for killing, raping and conquering what was there.

Now, vast numbers of us, (in the Underclass that you have not yet joined) are living at the edge of what you are still thriving in and wondering what it is about this new technology that is so vital, meaning and fascinating while we strive and struggle to simply exist at the end of that imaginary world you are now living in, loving, and doing everything you can to convince yourselves that our future is different from you and the only matter that has any concrete meaning is how financially liquid you are right now, verses your lab-rat participation in a reality where you convince yourself that being a dispensable pawn is anywhere an equivalent to being an actual participate in the game that is now playing you into an endless, indentured servitude.

Did you ever really have a choice in a game where they told you, as a child, to believe this or that as a fact or a fiction, before you were old enough to way things out and really decide? That's how it works, and that is why it continues to work. If you can go for the counter-intuitive, then you will not be accepted or popular, nor will you prosper and excel, yet, you will find, time and time again, that you have found something that breaks the mold you were formed in and suggests something other than the symbolic bag of tricks that was pulled over your eyes as a living, organic bio-computer with great potential that would have to be beyond your wildest imagination simply by contrast.

[diane in sf]

4. Electric cars will free up a lot of money to be spent locally, it won't go into the bloated,

centrally controlled, oil companies. This is part of the ongoing decentralization that will reinvigorate local economies. These cars won't always cost $25K, the price will come down to a reasonable level in a few years and used ones will start entering the market as well. The price on photovoltaic panels is heading in the same direction. So now imagine a lot of people producing their own electricity and powering those cars. Coal, oil, and nuclear power cartels have been working to slow wind and solar down, but like the wily mammals during the dinosaur era these new energy sources are starting to overcome the institutional inertia of existing power. They grow ever cheaper and their installed base grows exponentially. You can now pick up a solar panel kit at Costco, this trend is only going to continue to the point where even the poorest renters can get a little kit that will work on their windows (maybe like the ones people in Africa with $400 per year incomes are now using for powering their phones and night lighting). The other good thing about electric cars--they are mechanically simple, so maintenance is going to be a lot less expensive than on a typical ICE car.

I have a computer and peripherals on my desk that cost 1/10 of what I had to spend 20 years ago to get a lot less function, and what would have cost $2M to duplicate 25-30 years ago, if it could be done.

There are a lot of poor and middle class people that are one step away from disaster. One illness, even one car repair can wipe them out financially and make them homeless. I spent decades there myself. Personally I deal with that reality by using a portion of my time and money to lobby for single payer health care, an equitable tax structure, trying to wake people up to what's going on, etc. For my personal survival in old age I'm working on ways to lock in a decent level of living in a way that expenses won't be suddenly jumped up by outside agencies like power companies, etc. This may include an electric car, a small house I can run economically, insulation, gardening, making my own energy, access to transit, etc.

[Kolesar]

5. Costco: 2300 watt / $9000

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11630152&search=solar+panel&Mo=5&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=solar+panel&Ntt=solar+panel&No=3&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

[FBaggins]

6. The claim of up to 420kWh/month for 180 sqft of panels is pretty optomistic - isn't it?

A capacity factor approaching 25% for home equipment and no sun-tracking?

[txlibdem]

7. How much does installation cost?

One might be able to make a deal with a local solar installer and hire an electrician to make all of the connections (gotta follow code in your locale, where I am only a licensed electrician can actually make the connections but some electricians will cut their rate if you do all of the wire pulling and install the boxes, etc.).

PS, the links states, "2300Watt Grid-Tied PV Kit can generate between 210kWh and 420kWh of electricity per month." So they aren't committing fraud or over-promising anything unfairly, at least as far as I can see. That depends on your location and how many cloudy/foggy days you get per year. This is why I am a proponent of mega-sized solar power plants in the American desert southwest: fewest cloudy days per year, strongest sun compared to other locations even when all else is equal.

For example, review the following map and imagine a solar panel in Illinois versus one located in Southern California's desert region:

... Just for comparison, Illinois is between 4 and 4.5 while the Southwestern Desert rates at "greater than 6.8" so that means that 50% more solar panels would be needed in Illinois than in the Mojave to make the same amount of electricity.

See this link for a little more info, air pollution also reduces solar panel output:
http://renewable-training.com/?p=189

PS, I agree with you about the benefits of having a tracking system for your solar panels: they're just too darn expensive to fail to get the maximum output from them.

[FBaggins]

8. Looks like the kind of thing I would do myself.

Assuming the county inspectors permit it.

Now... I've got a walk-up attic, so the roof is at a pretty severe pitch. You couldn't pay me to go up there... but I don't really get all that much sun anyway. Definitely not worth considering at anything close to these prices.

But give it 10-15 years and they may have solar options that double as roofing tiles at an attractive price. I might need a new roof by then. Could be worth considering.

So they aren't committing fraud or over-promising anything unfairly

That's pretty clearly their intent (to avoid a fraud charge), but even the 210kWh/month figure would be pretty optomistic for most people. Yes, 2nd generation cells are right around that conversion efficiency, but few people get that in practice because the installations can't be ideal.

[txlibdem]

9. I agree, roofing work of any kind is a bit unnerving

But the pro's rent a cherry picker and start at the top by first installing ropes for each worker to avoid falls then they nail up 2x4s to stand on while they're working on one set of racks. Then, once the top racks are all filled with panels, they move the 2x4 down one level and do the next set of panels.

A steep pitched roof does make it more challenging. You must live where you'd get a lot of snow load. We don't have much trouble with that here in Dallas.

Now if you're waiting till you replace your roof one thing to consider is to go with a metal roof and use the "peel and stick" thin film solar systems. All the wires run into the attic via the roof peak vent and thin film costs are coming down as fast if not faster than mono or poly-crystalline panels. Downside is that they aren't as efficient so you'll need to cover a larger portion of your roof to do the job. But the metal roof has a 50 year lifespan compared to 20-30 for asphalt shingles...

The wires that run into the attic peak makes it easier for the electrician to come along and make the connections for you: should be cheaper than getting one to climb all over your roof. Just some food for thought.

[FBaggins]

10. Not much snow here in NC.

We just wanted a home that could be expanded later if we wanted (four kids). So I picked one with a walk-up attic with beams that were to code for a living space and trusses that left plenty of open space without having to re-engineer anything. In order to have enough headroom across a large enough proportion of the floor, the roof pitch had to be pretty steep (since it's a gable roof).

As for the other options? It has to end up being cost-effective. I can't imagine swapping out for a metal roof plus solar and having it come in where I need it. But like I said, that's at least a decade away... possibly two. I've got architectural shingles that (supposedly) should last at least 40 years and we're almost half-way there.

By the time I replace them, I'm hoping that BIPV options are attractive and cost-effective.

[txlibdem]

11. 20 years from now, in 2030, prices will be far less

The reason I suggested metal roof is its 50 year lifespan.

[tinrobot]

3. Makes me want to hold off a few years.

I had a Leaf reservation, but canceled it knowing some better and more stylish cars are coming in the next 12-18 months. This makes me want to wait even longer. Regardless, the next car I buy will be battery powered.