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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 03:22 PM
Original message
Uranium shortage poses threat
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9069-1735134,00.html

A GLOBAL shortage of uranium could jeopardise plans to build a new generation of nuclear power stations in Britain.

<snip>

However, a recent report by the Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada said that there was likely to be a 45,000-tonne shortage of uranium in the next decade, largely because of growing Chinese demand for the metal. Prices for uranium have almost tripled, to about $26/lb between March 2003 and May 2005, after being stable for years.

According to the Organisation for Economic Co- operation and Development’s Nuclear Agency’s “red book” — its statistical study of world uranium resources and demand — the world consumed 67,000 tonnes of uranium in 2002. Only 36,000 tonnes of this was produced from primary sources, with the balance coming from secondary sources, in particular ex- military sources as nuclear weapons are decommissioned.

In 2001 the European Commission said that at the current level of uranium consumption, known uranium resources would last 42 years. With military and secondary sources, this life span could be stretched to 72 years. Yet this rate of usage assumes that nuclear power continues to provide only a fraction of the world’s energy supply. If capacity were increased six-fold, then the 72-year supply would last just 12 years.

<more>


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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. plants can be run on thorium instead
there is plenty of it, the decay products are less dangerous, you cannot make bombs out of it and the technique already exists (Carlos Rubia, Nobel Prize).

The uranium lobby stops it.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Easier said than done
as no commercial thorium-cycle reactors or the infrastructure to support them exits...
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. time to start
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yes, time to start
seriously pushing renewables - the only sustainable energy technologies that can support human societies past the end of this century.

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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. no "infrastructure to support them exists..."
What does that mean?

How can an infrastructure exist if it hasn't been built it yet?

When my kids were young they would complain that they couldn't put on their shoes on because they didn't have any socks.

"Did you look for your socks?" I'd ask.

"No."
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. You had to be there...
...his comment is a jibe at the same comment which has been so often made in relation to the prospect of mass solar PV/PH/wind rollouts.

For example, whenever a technological improvement in solar cell manufacturing that will drastically reduce their cost in terms of energy and cash is pointed out, this is how pro-nuke folks respond.

If the criticism holds for one technology (the goose), it holds for another (the gander.) In this case, touting thorium as a technology tweak for nuclear is the gander.


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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. A thorium fuel cycle would have to be built from scratch
US utilities refuse to build uranium-fueled reactors today - even with massive subsidies.

and they're going to invest in a thorium cycle????

*color me skeptical*

The private capital ain't there and taxpayers would have to pony up a large fraction of a trillion dollars to fund it.

But I guess if we can spend a trillion bucks on an elective war in I-raq, we can squander a few trillion more on unsustainable untested nuclear fuel cycles...

:hi:

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. For more "Fun Facts" on US uranium production and consumption
download this pdf from the US Energy Information Adminisitration...

Uranium Overview 1949-2004

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/nuclear.html

Some hightlights...

The US uranium mining industry has collapsed. Yellowcake production in 1980 was 48 million pounds - today it's only ~2 million pounds.

In 2003, only ~23 million pounds of the ~62 million pounds of yellowcake used by the US nuclear power industry came from domestic sources - and almost all of that was drawn from existing inventories.

When existing inventories are exhausted, the US will have to import virtually all its uranium.

:)
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Cold War was an excuse to make Tons of Plutonium.. for breader reactors
at tax payers expence
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm sure Iran would be happy to help with this problem. nt
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
11. In your dreams...
Edited on Sat Aug-27-05 08:32 PM by NNadir
One wonders why there would be so much gnashing of teeth about a uranium shortage if people who are deathly afraid of the element are seeking to stop nuclear power.

If they are right, nuclear power will stop itself and there will simply be NO energy on the planet.

The problem is solved is it not? No uranium, no nuclear power no?

Why all this crying and whining then?

The element-that-must-not be named will disappear from the earth, and people who are terrified of radioactivity will only have to worry about the 500 billion curies of K-40 in the ocean.

Pathetic...

Here is my opinion of the whining and crying and scare stories.

People have been predicting the demise of nuclear power for thirty years. The same people have been predicting the imminent appearance of a solar nirvana for 40 years.

Not one of their predictions have been remotely true.

Zero. Not one. Zip.

Now if 40 years of religious chanting about solar nirvana and impending nuclear demise have not been realized, why should we believe that there is any credibility whatsoever about a rather fantastic (and clearly wrong) prediction that evokes what allegedly will happen in 72 years made by exactly the same people?

When and if the price of uranium rises to $1000/kg, it will still be the equivalent of gasoline at less than 2 tenths of one cent a gallon. Plutonium will then become competitive, U-233 will be competitive, and actinide recovery will be competitive.

$0.0015 = $1000 kg^-1/<(1000 grams/238 grams mol^-1) * No * 190 MeV/atom * e * 121 MJ/gallon of gas>

The same calculation shows that at $60/kg ($28/lb) the price of uranium is the equivalent of gasoline at 1 ten thousandth of a cent for gasoline.

In fact as I have shown time and time again, the cost of extracting uranium from the ocean, where there are billions of tons is competitive at less than $200/kg.

There is a time to throw bullshit after bullshit and then there is a time to deliver on a prediction. Predictions that have no connection with results, trends, or actual outcomes are called soothsaying. Predictions that are connected with analysis of data, the laws of physics and mathematics are called science.

It always was so, and always will be so.

Back in the 1950's everyone was concerned with uranium exhaustion, and so they designed breeder reactors, reactors that, it turns out, will not be needed for many decades, speaking even now in the early 21st century. When they are needed the exercise of building them will be trivial in any country with a sufficient technological base. (Probably the US and other theocratic states will not qualify by then.)

Of course, it was acceptable to not understand the basic geology, chemistry and physics in the 1950's, because no nuclear reactors had been built or operated. No one had investigated the problem. No one had ever even looked for uranium, except to make pottery glaze. (No one is looking for uranium now either, but only because the world is flooded with it.)

Today we have many thousands of reactor-years of experience with the logistics and operations of nuclear power plants - including the fact that zero reactors among the 440 now operating have ever been shut because fuel was unavailable. By the end of the next decade, reactor years of experience will be accumulating at the rate of over 1000 every two years.

Every time since the 1950's that people have "responded" to a predicted shortage of uranium, the effort has been proved financially un-viable because there is so much nuclear fuel.

In fact, there is so much nuclear fuel that the thorium from monzanite deposits, which are worked for their rare earth metals (used to make television tubes), is thrown away.

As William Stacy remarks in the preface of "Nuclear Reactor Physics" Wiley 2001 page xxv, "Nuclear reactor physics is now a relatively mature discipline, in that the basic physical principles are well understood, most of the basic nuclear data needed for nuclear reactor analysis have been measured and evaluated, and the computational methodology is highly developed and validated..."

Given the rise of religious fundamentalism, including the anti-nuclear movement, it is very unlikely that humanity will survive. If however, it does, when breeder reactors are needed the appropriate teams of engineers will simply build them.

In the case that humanity survives global climate change and the massive ignorance that accompanies it, or even if just a core of humanity survives, the issues of fuel physics are well worked already. In fact, there is a huge international effort known as the Gen IV program that is basically solving all of the design issues well before they are likely to be needed.

Here is the scientific agenda of a meeting of representatives of these teams from just a few months ago in Belgium:

http://www.jrc.cec.eu.int/gen4-workshop/program.pdf

Here is an overview of the program, one of many hundreds that are readily available on the topic.

http://www.engr.utk.edu/nuclear/colloquia/slides/Gen%20IV%20U-Tenn%20Presentation.pdf



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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. *SNORK*
Ostrich hides head in sand

:rofl:
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