Groundwater flowing into Fukushima nuclear plant

[kristopher]

Groundwater flowing into Fukushima nuclear plant

TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Tuesday it suspects that 200 to 500 tons a day of groundwater might be flowing through pits and wall cracks into reactor and turbine buildings at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant crippled by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

The suspicion is based on the fact that a decline in water levels in these buildings has slowed down.

"The suspected groundwater inflow is now unlikely to cause problems as the plant is capable of treating nearly 1,000 tons of radiation-contaminated water," said an official at the company known as TEPCO....

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110920p2g00m0dm103000c.html


Good thing that all "pits and wall cracks" designed by nature come equipped with check-valves allowing only one way flow, isn't it?

[Raster]

1. For the love of god. Tokyo Electric has created one of the most toxic places on the planet....

"...with groundwater ...flowing through pits and wall cracks into the reactor and turbine buildings..."

And where is this radioactive groundwater flowing to after it's visit through the reactor(s)? Back into the ground, perhaps?

[kristopher]

5. Well, the claim by Tepco is that the flow is one way and...

...they are recovering the contaminated water.

I find it hard to give their assertions any credibility whatsoever. I think it has to be assumed that there is groundwater contamination occurring unless and until it is shown to be not contaminated.

[Yo_Mama]

11. The word to describe that theory

... is "ludicrous".

That's what steams me up about this. Obviously if water is flowing in it is also seeping out. Admittedly, the explosions and all that showered the area with highly radioactive debris, not to mention the radioactive steam which has contaminated a large area, most extremely to the NW. So it is possible that the contamination from that source far outweighs the contamination from the basements, which would tend to have more water flowing in than flowing out.

But that water does travel. Due to the local geography, most of the flow is toward the ocean, although you can expect some groundwater contamination over a pretty broad area due to the fallout.

In all of those areas with fallout, after a couple of years the longer-lived isotopes concentrate in the lower areas where run-off occurs. And it's significant. They've already found ditches in the Fukushima city area with high levels of radioactivity. It's somewhat excruciating to watch videos of the tsunami washing over the very fertile fields close to the coast along the shore, and realize that by the time some of those fields have been decontaminated from salt and oil and so forth, they'll begin to be affected by groundwater contamination.

Iwaki and so forth? They can be doubly hit - once by water carrying and concentrating isotopes from soil, and once by diffusion from the plant area.

I read all the plans published about the Daiichi plant, and I have begun to wonder about how the word "containment" is being used. Classically in the industry, containment means no discharge. I hardly see how that applies to Fukushima any more. We are talking about limiting measures, not containment.

[Marblehead]

2. how long before

Tokyo is a ghost town....

[Yo_Mama]

3. Given the geography, never.

But it's damned sure a failure of containment!

And the welfare of people who live closer counts too.

[kristopher]

4. Could you share the source showing Tokyo groundwater to be immune?

I haven't seen the topic authoritatively addressed.

Thanks.

[FBaggins]

6. You're kidding, right?

How far from Fukushima is Tokyo? How rapidly does groundwater migrate? How many orders of magnitude dilution would there be?


The only groundwater contamination you're likely to see in Tokyo (from Fukushima) in your lifetime (or that of your great great grandchildren) would enter the groundwater from fallout... and there wasn't all that much of that in Tokyo.

[kristopher]

7. Now you are a hydrologist specializing in Japan?

I asked for an authoritative source, not the unfounded opinion of a person dedicated to defense of the nuclear industry above all else.

[FBaggins]

9. Japan has magic soil characteristics?

If you're looking for an authoritative source, I know that a number of studies were done of groundwater contamination migration of plutonium/radium/etc around the test sites in Nevada.

Unfortunately... the thing you'll never come to accept is that facts are not impacted by your position preferences. The "opinion" is well founded... you just don't like the answer. There is zero chance of Tokyo becoming a "ghost town" due to contaminated groundwater migrating 250 miles (rather than into the ocean). Sorry.

[SpoonFed]

16. Well... then... I take that as an affirmative that...

now you are clearly are a hydrologist specializing in Japan? :eyes:

You make the salient point that Fukushima clearly is in Nevada, that above and underground weapons tests are equivalent to 4 reactors going ape-shit, in terms of environmental impact, and your continued clairvoyance regarding the Nuclearfilthfest in Japan is remarkable. :sarcasm:

Is there no area of knowledge that is outside the scope of a Hobbit's purview?

[FBaggins]

17. Nope... you can take it that the original idea was so badly wrong

that you don't need to be anything CLOSE to an expert to tell that it was nonsense.

You just need a pair of brain cells to rub together.

Let me know if you need the loan of a couple. :rofl:

Try and put just a little thought into this. Groundwater from a location actually on the sea is supposed to flow all the way down to Tokyo at all (let alone in sufficient quantities to make it a "ghost town")?

[SpoonFed]

22. Taking anything you have to say about nuclear filth and nuclear safety...

at face value has to be seriously questioned by anyone with a half a brain cell given your track record and propensity for nuke industry apologia. Perhaps you should reconsider loaning out those two you have.

[FBaggins]

23. And yet I was proven right once again.

Must seem like an annoying coincidence to you. :rofl:

[SpoonFed]

28. Why must you pat yourself on the back so much?

Clearly, by your own words, you have never been wrong! :eyes:
Or do you need to puff yourself up? I have a spare bicycle pump if you want.

[Yo_Mama]

10. Authoritative Source

u.org/meeting/2011/yokou/MIS036-P86_E.pdf

It indicates some risk to make influence to the domestic water of city area in Koriyama and Iwaki when reaching the polluted water. In these cities, deep wells may strengthen the water supply system to avoid pollution risk, because deep groundwater has little influenced from surface pollution.

The detailed model, which has an approximate same range with the radius 10km of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant, has three layers which equal to the Quaternary, the upper and lower of Neogene. The hydraulic conductivities were defined homogeneously as 10−5, 10−7, and 10−6 in each layer respectively, from the previous report by the local government (Tohoku Agricultural Bureau, 1979). The boundary conditions fix the hydraulic head of rivers, lakes, and ponds with the elevations, and the sea area with 0m. Result showed the groundwater flows into the sea with the flux of 0.01 in the top Quaternary which has 5m width. In the upper and lower Neogene, which has 20m and 200m width, the fluxes were calculated around 0.00001 and 0.0001 . It means the pollutants can flow out through the Quaternary into the sea by relatively fast groundwater flux, as the main facilities of the power plants are built on the Quaternary. Additionally, it is difficult to infiltrate the pollutant into the Neogene by the low permeability.

They do care, and they have been investigating the question for obvious reasons.

But, as I pointed out earlier, it's not as if it not being a threat to Tokyo makes it no threat.

On edit: And TEPCO is planning to build a wall in the near ocean to stop the flow:
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/06_03.html

[kristopher]

12. Thank you.

Informative map and very interesting website.

[FBaggins]

14. So let's see. If we ignore the fact that there's a mountain range between the two...

...and imagine that the contaminated water moved through the most forgiving layer cited (and that the layer exists along that entire route)... and runs along the coast without ever leaking out into the ocean...

the contaminated groundwater reaches Tokyo in about 750 years?

And even if we ignore the massive dilution through the water table... with a half life of about 30 years, .00000145% of the cesium would remain.

Only a pierson's puppeteer would be packing his bags at this point. :)

[Yo_Mama]

15. The Puppeteers!

We have a lot of them when it comes to radiation, you know.

I just wish people showing this level of personal concern over F-Daiichi would think about radon gas! Although the studies are equivocal for the most part, that is one way in which many people could lower their risks. They faint over a few becquerels from a disaster 4.5K miles away, and ignore the exposure that can be 100 times more over their lifetimes.

Some of this is political. Some of it is innumeracy.

Still, the effects in Japan are very real and will actually increase in some areas over the next year. I have not the foggiest idea of what the Japanese will do with all the topsoil generated from their cleanup. I don't have a clue as to how they can afford the cleanup.

Real risks should be highlighted and imaginary risks should be debunked. We live - and always have - in a rather risky world and properly balancing those risks is one of the most important underlying tasks that each generation faces.

[Fledermaus]

8. "the fact that a decline in water levels in these buildings has slowed down"

Its more like the local water table has been saturated with Fukushima water and can't take any more.

[Yo_Mama]

13. Not exactly

First, they did build some barriers already to stop the water in the plant from entering the ocean. This is backing it up in the site.

Second, when the tsunami came ashore it dumped tons of seawater on the ground and into the infrastructure of the plants.

Third, when the rains come they dump quite large amounts of moisture on top of all that. TEPCO was working against time trying to set up the first improvised system because they were terrified that the basements would overflow from all that rainwater.

They are recirculating water out of the basements, purifying it and reinjecting it into the reactors.

But it isn't contained.

[Fledermaus]

20. Can you porvide a link that says they have built the barrier!!!

[Yo_Mama]

21. They didn't build the groundwater barrier

They built some temporary barriers to stop the surface/near surface overflow.

They are suggesting the groundwater barrier is a project over about the 2-year frame.

The groundwater barrier involves sinking piles very deeply into the ocean floor. It's a totally different task.

[Fledermaus]

25. Sea water in the plant? the storm surge? How high? As high as the tsunami?!?!?!?!

[FBaggins]

26. If you're not even going to read what you reply to... why bother?

:shrug:

Groundwater migration and storm surge protection are two different animals.

[Yo_Mama]

24. Some info

TEPCO is constantly sampling the water at the shore. Here's their latest:
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/betu11_e/images/110923e4.pdf

Note that the levels of radiation (becquerels per liter) exceed standards but not by that much. The idea that huge amounts of radioactivity is currently running off the plant seem to be mistaken - but it's not contained.

Edit: Here's the latest air sampling and analysis, just for completeness:
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/betu11_e/images/110923e6.pdf

Still, the ground contamination is very significant.

[SpoonFed]

18. You would think I would grow sick and tired...

of reading TEPCO's bullshit about this disaster but even now, months later, it annoys the hucking fell out of me that they are still putting out bullshit numbers and not even bothering make them pass the bar of common sense.

capable of treating nearly 1,000 tons of radiation-contaminated water

So... like 1,000 tons total? Or is this a rate that is missing a time component due to another crappy translation?
Or are we all just supposed to be so stupid as to not realize the difference?
Or is this just more PR bullshit that comes out of a dark dank hole called TEPCO's (ur)an(ium)us?

[FBaggins]

19. Right... because it couldn't possibly be a translation issue,

or poor reporting or even just an incomplete quote... right?

Have you not missed the truly awful reporting over the last several months?

[SpoonFed]

27. Of course! You are one of the few people on this forum that...

might try, while wearing a straight face, to ask for people to give TEPCO the benefit of the doubt. The rest of us have seen through the disgusting trail of lies, misdirection and outright denial for six months. How many reports of the Fukufilthplants barfing rainbows and puppies with incorrect data can be blamed on mistranslation at this point?

Woops, the four rainbow happy plants have barfed 1000 puppies. Oh, we mean 1000 puppies/hour.
We have now confirmed that we underestimated the number of fluffy bunnies dancing in the ocean by a factor of 3.
No wait, we didn't say that, it was a translation error, it was pink ponies...