Icing the case for global warming

[n2doc]

BY JOEL CONNELLY, SEATTLEPI.COM
Published 10:07 p.m., Tuesday, September 27, 2011


A challenge to global warming skeptics from this scribe: Take leave of your intellectual bunkers and come to the Canadian Rockies, a great mountain range whose glaciers, lakes and rivers deliver water as far distant as the Pacific Ocean, the Arctic Ocean and Hudson Bay.

The majestic Rockies are delivering a message these days.

Climate change is not a theory, not a debate, in these mountains. It is there for your eyes to witness. The glaciers are shrinking rapidly and changing appearance, even from when I first hiked there as a 10-year-old.

The "feet" have become detached from the Crowfoot Glacier. The Angel Wing Glacier looks anorexic. The great Saskatchewan Glacier is not only retreating but shrinking in volume and has a melt lake at its snout. The toe of the Athabasca Glacier, where "Planet Ice" author Jim Martin learned to ice climb in the mid-1970s, is now a boulder field and small hill.

"The speed is what's alarming. We've always taken it for granted glaciers will be there, but now -- in a few short decades -- there will be no glaciers to this landscape at all," said Bart Robinson, who has penned hiker guidebooks since the 1970s.


Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/connelly/article/Icing-the-case-for-global-warming-the-Canadian-2191615.php

[Eddie Haskell]

1. Ask the ice.

"Ice asks no questions, presents no arguments, reads no newspapers, listens to no debates. It is not burdened by ideology and carries no political baggage ... It just melts."

Henry Pollack, Ph.D., Geophysicist, University of Michigan.

[The Croquist]

2. Ice has been melting for 20,000 years

Why are we supposed to think that it should stop now?

[Viking12]

3. Stupid people have been around for 50,000 years

Why should we try to educate them now?

[truebrit71]

4. Can you think of any reason why it might have been speeding up recently...

..say in the last decade or so...????:banghead:

[kestrel91316]

5. Put the denialists on Ignore. Your forehead will thank you.

[stuntcat]

6. and miss a 100% perfect reply!?

I mean we all know that 20,001 years ago no ice ever melted. anywhere :rofl: roffles :rofl: and this proves oh so much :think:

[The Croquist]

7. Rate of sea level rise

Sea level rise hasn't been speeding up recently depending on your definition of "recently". Over the last 20,000 years it's averaged about 2 feet per century. Currently it is averaging about 1 foot a century.

Feel free to hit your head against a brick wall if you want but personally I would recommend looking at the data.

Also feel free to take kestrel91316's advice and ignore those that disagree with you. It's much easier then thinking.

[caraher]

8. 20,000 years is a terrible definition of "recently"

A better benchmark would be, say, recorded history (a few thousand years). That way you don't mix coming out of an ice age with the recent warm period that is our "normal." The world human population was a tiny fraction of what it is today as Earth emerged from an ice age, there were no huge cities on coastlines, etc.

If you genuinely want to try thinking, yes, look at the data (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise">Wikipedia):



That nice flat plateau toward the end is where human civilization took root. Turning it into something with a bigger slope is a reckless gamble. If you want to compare accelerating rates of sea level rise now with higher rates that existed before the invention of writing, and assert we shouldn't worry our pretty little heads over it, so be it. But I'd consider that extremely unwise...

[The Croquist]

9. Sorry caraher but I disagree.

You say that "A better benchmark would be, say, recorded history (a few thousand years)." but "a few thousand years" is not recorded history. Recorded sea level rise date back a few hundred years at most and allot of that information is suspect. Truly accurate sea level measurements only dates back about 30 or so years. 30 years isn't a very long time. By the way sea level has been dropping recently (14 months or so). I'm sure you will agree that it is statistically insignificant but what defines "recently"?

The reason I use 20,000 years is because it tends to blend out the natural uncertainly that comes with proxy measurements. For example; lets say that in the last 20,000 years sea level has risen, instead of 130 meters, 120 meters or 140 meters. That doesn't significantly change the overall trend. If you look at your chart there are significant measurements that differ from the estimate. That is the nature of proxy measurements. You have to take them with a grain of salt.

It doesn't matter if "That nice flat plateau toward the end is where human civilization took root." Nature doesn't really care about us and keep in mind that humans were creating civilizations for tens of thousands of years before the maximum of the most recent ice age. Civilization just didn't announce itself one day. It developed over time.

"If you want to compare accelerating rates of sea level rise now with higher rates that existed before the invention of writing, and assert we shouldn't worry our pretty little heads over it, so be it. But I'd consider that extremely unwise..."

Why did sea level rise faster in the past? It wasn't the SUV. It wasn't coal and oil. It was natural. Why should today be special?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nederland]

10. Ocean acidification is the real worry, not sea level rise

Even if you assume sea level rise will occur twice as fast as the IPCC claims, it simply is not a serious problem. Sea Level rise is simply not happening quickly enough to make a huge difference. Ocean acidification however, is of concern because of its potential effects on certain ocean environments like coral reefs.

[The Croquist]

11. You could be right.

I'm not convinced that sea life won't adapt quickly enough but that's taking a pretty big risk.

I've seen so much of what I consider sensationalized headlines and claims regarding CO2 that I have a tendency to assume that they are all overblown. I need to treat ocean acidification as a separate issue and try to keep an open mind.