I have a question about negatively charged surfaces I'd like to ask

[madokie]

I heat with a wood pellet stove and I was wondering if there is anyway to negatively charge the stove so the ashes wouldn't stick to the inside of the heat exchanger cutting down on the efficiency somewhat. I'm not sure I know what I'm talking about here so help me out if you can. Not sure if its a negative or a positive charge I need or if either would matter.
TIA



Here's a link to our stove. By far the best pellet stove, or pellet stove brand out there. I've owned three different brands and this one is head and shoulders above the rest, in case anyone is thinking of making the switch to pellet stoves for heat this winter.
http://www.harmanstoves.com/products/details.asp?cat=stoves&prd=pellet-stoves&f=ADVPSTV

[Warpy]

1. Unless you want to get a belt every time you fill it

I'd suggest not charging the stove. A better idea is just gritting your teeth and cleaning the sucker out.

I had an air tight Norwegian woodstove back in the 70s and had to clean out the exchanger and stove pipe about every month to keep them safest. I have no idea how fast a heat exchange box on a pellet stove clogs up, I just scraped the creosote down when it started to flake. The chimney was swept every 2 cords.

[FreakinDJ]

2. internet search "Fly ash Abatement System"

they charge the the plates there but I think they are made of a special alloy too. Not sure if the coldroll iron or cast iron your stove is made of would work

http://www.neundorfer.com/knowledge_base/electrostatic_precipitators.aspx

[MADem]

3. How often do you have to clean it out, and how messy a job is it?

Also, does that brand of stove have the battery back-up feature?

TIA.

[madokie]

5. I clean it with each new ton of pellets

sometimes sooner just depends on how I'm feeling. It doesn't make any creosote its only fine fly ash, if you will, that coats every thing.and it brushes right off but I'd like to not even have to mess with that. Its not real messy or anything its just one of those jobs you have to do that you'd rather not do kind of thing. The stove is made of stainless if that is any help except for the top and it is cast iron but its not what concerns me as its not in the fire box in any way.

[MADem]

8. Hope you don't mind me picking your brain!

How long does a ton of pellets last you, on average--and how/where do you store them? And how much room does a ton of pellets take up? And how often do you have to refill that hopper? I've seen the pellets sold in what looks like a dog food bag, sorta--does your ton of pellets come in packs like that? AND...do you have battery backup for the inevitable power outage, and if not, how do you feed the beast?

Can you tell I'm thinking about supplementing with one of these things?

I'd love to hear more about your experiences with the stove, if you've a mind to share!

[madokie]

9. We use this for primary heat

and we'll use two tons of pellets a winter, last winter we used three tons but that was the first time we've used that much since we've been using a pellet stove back in the winter of '91. Last winter was exceptionally colder than our normal winter. The pellets come in 40 pound bags, a ton is a stack approximately 4 ft x 4 ft by 4 ft. I put them in my shop and bring in a few bags at a time and put them in the back room. I use a deep discharge absorbed glass mat battery and an inverter for those times when the power goes out. If it looks like the power is going to be off more than an hour or so I get the welder/generator out and connect it to the breaker box in the house so I can go on with my life and watch for the neighbors lights to come on to let me know that power is back on. We've only lost power two times since we started using a pellet stove and the power was off approximately 4 hours both times, we were lucky, others around here last winter were without power for over a week, that would suck.
Here in about a month I'll fill my safety gas cans up so I'll have about 10 gallons of extra gas just in case then if we don't have to use it this winter we'll use it next spring for mowing. I have safety gas cans and the advantage to them is the gas doesn't go bad in them like it will in cheaper containers because these safety cans seal off tight, no fumes get out and no air gets in to spoil the fuel. When we first bought our first pellet stove in '91 we paid 145 bucks plus tax for a ton of pellets, last winter it was 200 bucks, about the same as it is this winter.

I try to clean the stove every few weeks when I can catch a warm day to do it, at least once per ton of pellets burned at the minimum. Its a process of bringing the shop vac in and turn it on and let it run with the hose stuck in the stove so while I'm wiping the interior down I won't be getting dust all throughout the house. It takes about 30 minutes or so to give the stove a good cleaning. I try to take the covers that cover the fans off the stove at least once a year to clean the squirrel cage convection fan of hair, lint etc. Other than that sit back and stay nice and toasty.

Our first pellet stove was an England and we used it for several years then we upgraded to a Whitfield and never liked it from the get go so three winters ago we purchased the Harman that we have now. We paid 3200 bucks for it but got a little over a thousand of that back on our taxes that year. Our only choices for heat is Electric, Propane or Wood and this to us is the lesser of those three evils. As we upgrade we pass our old stoves down to our kids so they can heat with pellets too rather than heat with propane which cost an arm and a leg plus your first born.

I use my little buggy there to carry the bags to the house with. Our son just throws a bag over each shoulder and packs them in that way, I'm too fucking old to do it that way any more.

The first stove we had was you lit it with a match, then the Whitfield was on a thermostat and it lit itself and this one we have now lites itself but rather than turn on and off as the thermostat tells it this one has a sensor that lets the control circuit know what the temperature in the room is and then the stove adjust the fire up or down which ever it needs to do as the temperature changes. We really like the way this one works as once it gets cold it comes on and stays on until spring, sometimes with barely a fire and other times when its cold out with a pretty good size fire. The temperature in the house is always the same whatever I set it at which in our case since we're getting older is at 74 degrees. I can't say enough good things about our Harman Advance pellet stove. Its made in Maine by Mainers using all USA components and they are proud of that as we are also. No made in china parts on these stoves where with the Whitfield it was made in Mexico with mostly Chinese motors and controllers.

Another good thing about pellet stoves is they take only a few minutes to get warm when they do start up and only a few minutes to cool off when you turn them off. The exterior of the stove is always cool to the touch except for the glass in the door. Pretty kid safe.

I average about one bag of pellet a day except for last winter and it was a little more due to the much colder temps.
Whew, long winded ain't I? :-)

I like that we're using what is other wise a waste product to heat our home with and since its wood sawdust pressed into wood pellets its pretty much carbon neutral.

[MADem]

11. WOW--THANK YOU!!!!! What a great explanation--you answered my questions, and more!!!!

I didn't mean to derail your thread, but I've been curious about these stoves for so long, and I have heard so many good things. Your essay is a keeper!!

Does a pellet stove user have to keep the thing going every day, or can you just fire it up on the really cold days, assuming you have an alternate heat source?

You've sold me on the Harman brand, btw--made in Maine? Say no more!!!

[madokie]

13. You can fire it up anytime you want too

Only on days you need the extra heat or if you're having company and the ambiance of a fire would be nice you can fire it up then. If you do that these harmans will let you enjoy the fire without over heating the room no matter what the temperature out is. Well thought out and well built stoves. They just drip with good ole USA Pride

Remember I'm in northeastern Oklahoma so if you're in a colder climate than I your mileage will vary. :-)
The last winter, ('90) we heated with propane we spent over 1200 bucks and never really felt warm, the next winter we went pellet and spent a tad over 300 bucks for pellets plus the 1100 bucks for the stove. Our first stove paid for itself in the first two winters over what we would have paid if we were heating with propane or electric. Right now with all we've saved over propane or electric we're several thousand bucks to the good, even when I take out the price of the three stoves we've purchased.

I don't mind the detour as I'm reading links and about to realize what I wanted to do originally is not going to happen, too complicated for my two brain cells.

[MADem]

15. We're gonna get one. I found a couple of dealers not far from home, too.

One of 'em will even come out and CLEAN THE THING for us--which sounds good to me! I'll pay if it's not too usurious--I'm lazy! Now we just have to go out and do the pricing and "looky loo." They have an optional battery thing that you can plug into (you plug the stove into a switch that is connected to the battery) and that will keep it going for twelve hours or so. That will probably do for us, for now, until I get an automatic house generator (on my wish list).

I'm in NE (that's New England as opposed to Nebraska) so it does get pretty cold here. I'm not looking to replace our heating source (natural gas), just supplement it and add a bit of ambiance without having to deal with the attractive but messy and worthless wood fire business. I live in a huge old stone house that is actually pretty warm once you heat it up, and nice and cool in summer heat. If I can save a few bucks AND get that nice warm glow thing going, I'll be a happy camper.

Thanks again for the kick in the ass! I'm looking forward to a warmer winter!

[madokie]

16. All the Harmans use the same basic burn system

so it matters only which one you like the best, what fits your decor the best.
You may want to download the manual for the stove you like and the pellet stove brochure to get a feel for what you'll be getting.

http://www.harmanstoves.com/products/details.asp?cat=stoves&prd=pellet-stoves&f=ADVPSTV

don't forget the tax credits either as it saved us 30 percent off the price.

[MADem]

17. I want to go for the INSERT one. It'll look good in the fireplace, and

suit the decor (such as it is).

[izquierdista]

4. Try "electrostatic scrubber" as a search

What you are asking about is a common technology for industrial size incinerators and such. What they do is to put a grid of pins into the flow zone and put a charge on the pins. The charged ash particles flying around are attracted to the pins and stick to them instead. Periodically, the whole thing can be removed and the pins cleaned off. Another search term would be "electrostatic precipitation".

[madokie]

6. Alright thanks

Now I know where to start
Makes me wonder if the brick back plate might be a good item to use instead of the pins if thats possible. It could be easily insulated from the rest of the stove to.
thanks

[izquierdista]

7. Probably not good air flow there

There are parallel plate electrostatic precipitators, but they are usually right in the middle of the flow. I don't know if a back plate is going to catch enough of the flow to do any good. Here is a link that might help: http://www.dustcollectorexperts.com/electrostatic/

[madokie]

10. Thanks again

This is totally out of my realm of know how but I think with enough help and research I might figure it out. What I'm really wanting to do is to charge the particles so they don't attach themselves to the heat exchanger in the stove and simply fall out of the air stream into the ash pan or pass out the exhaust pipe. I realize I may be asking too much as it is a rather harsh environment and it may not be possible.

[izquierdista]

12. You can experiment

Take a car battery and attach the negative to the outside of the stove and figure a way to get the positive terminal connected to that insulated plate inside. The battery shouldn't run down, because there is very little current flowing. All you are doing is keeping a floating charge on that plate. If you notice more buildup with the battery connected, then in principle it is working. If you need any more physics help, send me a PM.

[madokie]

14. Thank you

I can do this and will but not tonight I've got my sooners to listen too and keep my focus on. Our stove has a port for connecting a manometer for set up and I can run my wire to the back plate thought that port. They're just right besides each other. I've got some high temperature silicone plate that is about a half inch thick that I can cut a plug out of and punch a small hole in it to run the wire though and thread it into the port hole.
I'll let you know what happens when I get this done. :-)

splchk