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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-11 10:27 AM
Original message
Germany Prepares to Back Up Anti-Nuclear Energy with Imported Nuclear Energy


"Adding to awakening consumer anxiety about 'quality of life' issues, last month Germany’s Federal Network Agency announced that it decided not to keep any NPPs (Nuclear Power Producers) as back-up in case of electricity shortfalls for the upcoming winter. So, what to do? Why, use Germany’s massive euro reserves to buy in electricity from neighboring countries to ease shortfalls during the bumpy transitional period.

Neighbors only too glad to export electricity to der Vaterland include Austria, the Czech Republic and France.

And here’s where it gets interesting, as the latter two nation’s electrical exports are generated by… nuclear power. Quite aside from the ideological contradictions inherent in the policy, it won’t come cheap. In a report last July Deutsche Bank noted that because of the nuclear prohibition Germany will become a net importer of about 4 terawatt hours of power by the end of the year after exporting 14 terawatt hours in 2010."

http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Renewable-Energy/Germany-Its-Not-Easy-Being-Green.html


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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-11 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Gee, I'm shocked.
Who knew that a hasty, irrational, and unscientific decision prompted by panic could turn out badly?
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-11 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. How could that possible be?
The Czech Republic is reportedly planning to expand the plant shown above so that they can sell even more power to the Germans when more plants shut down over the next decade.

There's an obvious solution here. France and the Czech Republic should open new embassy compounds on the site of the closing reactors. The Germany can tell the paranoid percentage that there is no longer any nuclear generation going on... on German soil. :)

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. And it won't matter if a Czech reactor melts down
because their radiation is forbidden in Germany

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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-11 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Germany Continues Exporting Electricity: Renewables Driving Down Prices Despite Closing Reactors
Recent data shows Germany continues to export electricity despite closing seven nuclear reactors. Meanwhile, Bloomberg reports that continued renewable energy expansion in Germany is driving down power prices.

Germany's bureau of statistics reports that the country exported more electricity than it imported during the first half of 2011. This disproves widespread rumors circulating in North America that Germany is closing its nuclear power plants by relying on imports of electricity from its neighbors.

Though the bureau of statistics notes that the margin of exports over imports has decreased from 2010, Germany sold 4 TWh more electricity than it bought during the period. Germany consumes more than 300 TWh every six months. The surplus for export represents about one percent of consumption.

In the first half of 2010, Germany exported nearly 11 TWh more electricity than it imported.

Bloomberg reports that Germany is expected to add 7,000 MW of wind and solar generating capacity in 2013, exceeding the installations projected for 2012. This massive expansion of renewable energy generating capacity is affecting the futures market for fossil-fuel fired generation....

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2011/09/germany-continues-exporting-electricity-renewables-driving-down-prices-despite-closing-reactors?cmpid=SolarNL-Thursday-September29-2011
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I understand why you need to sell that BS...
Edited on Mon Oct-03-11 04:56 PM by FBaggins
...the question is whether you yourself actually buy it.

Amazing that the title would use the present tense for something that isn't currently true. The author dishonestly attempts to spin the old data as somehow relevant.

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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-11 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. An unsourced, illegible graph from the nuclear misinformation machine?
They are in the process of correcting a fundamental mistake in the design of their infrastructure and it is going to get done. In the process they will not only meet previously established carbon reduction goals, but they are on track to exceed those goals.

According to the nuclear lobby Germany was supposed to have experienced massive power shortages and blackouts this summer, remember? In fact, virtually everything negative claimed by the nuclear industry and their agents has failed to materialize. But Fukushima is certainly real enoough, isn't it?

Face it, in spite of everything you pray for, they are not in dire straights; they are moving with all due speed to a distributed, sustainable grid based on renewable energy sources. What in the world does it say about the perspective of nuclear pushers that they find the move to renewables to be such a repellent policy?

Deutschland verkauft noch immer mehr Strom als es einkauft

WIESBADEN – Die Tendenz ist fallend, aber auch im ersten Halbjahr 2011 hat Deutschland per Saldo mehr Strom exportiert als importiert. Wie das Statistische Bundesamt (Destatis) mitteilt, wurden in den ersten sechs Monaten des Jahres 23,9 Terawatt-Stunden (TWh) über die europäischen Stromnetze nach Deutschland eingeführt. Im gleichen Zeitraum führte Deutschland 27,9 TWh aus.

Im Vergleich zum Vorjahr stieg die Einfuhrmenge: Im ersten Halbjahr 2010 lag sie noch bei 19,1 TWh. Demgegenüber sank die Ausfuhrmenge, im Vorjahreszeitraum lag sie bei 30,0 TWh. Der Überschuss in der Handelsbilanz verkleinerte sich von 10,9 TWh im ersten Halbjahr 2010 auf 4,1 TWh im ersten Halbjahr 2011.

Die größten Strommengen wurden aus den beiden Nachbarländern Frankreich (10,4 TWh) und der Tschechischen Republik (5,6 TWh) eingespeist. Die beiden wichtigsten Abnehmer für Strom aus Deutschland waren die Alpennachbarn Österreich (7,8 TWh) und Schweiz (7,6 TWh).

1 Terawatt-Stunde entspricht 1.000.000.000 Kilowattstunden (KWh).


http://www.bdew.de/internet.nsf/id/DE_20110912-PI-Richtigstellung-der-veroeffentlichten-Zahlen-zum-Stromaustausch-mit-dem-Ausland


BDEW: Germany Remains Electricity Exporter, But Imports Increase Significantly
Published on September 13, 2011


Germany remained an electricity exporter during the first half of 2011. However, electricity imports significantly increased, the Federal Association of the Energy and Water Industry (BDEW) reported

In the first half of 2011, Germany exported roughly 29 billion kWh compared to 31 billion kWh in the same period last year, BDEW said. Imports rose significantly from 20 billion kWh to 25 billion kWh, leading to an export surplus of 4 billion kWh after a surplus of 11 billion kWh in the first half of 2010. Hence Germany’s electricity import/export balance is still positive, despite the recent energy turnaround, albeit to a much lower degree than in the past. In the wake of the Fukushima nuclear accident, Germany amended the Atomic Energy Act (AtG), stipulating a staggered phase-out of nuclear energy and the immediate shutdown of eight nuclear power plants.

Imports mainly came from France (42%) and the Czech Republic (22%), while most of Germany’s exports went to Austria (27%) and Switzerland (25%), BDEW said.


http://www.germanenergyblog.de/?p=7218
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-11 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Better than a claim of what "continues" based on data from BEFORE the shutdowns.
Wouldn't you say?

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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-03-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. No, it's an unsourced, illegible graph from the nuclear misinformation machine.
Edited on Mon Oct-03-11 05:53 PM by kristopher
And as such it has no value whatsoever.

Germany is in the process of correcting a fundamental mistake in the design of their infrastructure and it is going to get done. In the process they will not only meet previously established carbon reduction goals, but they are on track to exceed those goals.

According to the nuclear lobby Germany was supposed to have experienced massive power shortages and blackouts this summer, remember? In fact, virtually everything negative claimed by the nuclear industry and their agents has failed to materialize. But Fukushima is certainly real enoough, isn't it?

Face it, in spite of everything you pray for, they are not in dire straights; they are moving with all due speed to a distributed, sustainable grid based on renewable energy sources. What in the world does it say about the perspective of nuclear pushers that they find the move to renewables to be such a repellent policy?

Deutschland verkauft noch immer mehr Strom als es einkauft

WIESBADEN – Die Tendenz ist fallend, aber auch im ersten Halbjahr 2011 hat Deutschland per Saldo mehr Strom exportiert als importiert. Wie das Statistische Bundesamt (Destatis) mitteilt, wurden in den ersten sechs Monaten des Jahres 23,9 Terawatt-Stunden (TWh) über die europäischen Stromnetze nach Deutschland eingeführt. Im gleichen Zeitraum führte Deutschland 27,9 TWh aus.

Im Vergleich zum Vorjahr stieg die Einfuhrmenge: Im ersten Halbjahr 2010 lag sie noch bei 19,1 TWh. Demgegenüber sank die Ausfuhrmenge, im Vorjahreszeitraum lag sie bei 30,0 TWh. Der Überschuss in der Handelsbilanz verkleinerte sich von 10,9 TWh im ersten Halbjahr 2010 auf 4,1 TWh im ersten Halbjahr 2011.

Die größten Strommengen wurden aus den beiden Nachbarländern Frankreich (10,4 TWh) und der Tschechischen Republik (5,6 TWh) eingespeist. Die beiden wichtigsten Abnehmer für Strom aus Deutschland waren die Alpennachbarn Österreich (7,8 TWh) und Schweiz (7,6 TWh).

1 Terawatt-Stunde entspricht 1.000.000.000 Kilowattstunden (KWh).


http://www.bdew.de/internet.nsf/id/DE_20110912-PI-Richtigstellung-der-veroeffentlichten-Zahlen-zum-Stromaustausch-mit-dem-Ausland


BDEW: Germany Remains Electricity Exporter, But Imports Increase Significantly
Published on September 13, 2011


Germany remained an electricity exporter during the first half of 2011. However, electricity imports significantly increased, the Federal Association of the Energy and Water Industry (BDEW) reported

In the first half of 2011, Germany exported roughly 29 billion kWh compared to 31 billion kWh in the same period last year, BDEW said. Imports rose significantly from 20 billion kWh to 25 billion kWh, leading to an export surplus of 4 billion kWh after a surplus of 11 billion kWh in the first half of 2010. Hence Germany’s electricity import/export balance is still positive, despite the recent energy turnaround, albeit to a much lower degree than in the past. In the wake of the Fukushima nuclear accident, Germany amended the Atomic Energy Act (AtG), stipulating a staggered phase-out of nuclear energy and the immediate shutdown of eight nuclear power plants.

Imports mainly came from France (42%) and the Czech Republic (22%), while most of Germany’s exports went to Austria (27%) and Switzerland (25%), BDEW said.


http://www.germanenergyblog.de/?p=7218
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-11 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Source, with legibility:
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SpoonFed Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-11 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. What? Another one of your uncited photobucket graphs is better than... what? n/t
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-11 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Better than an obvious lie.
Edited on Tue Oct-04-11 08:50 AM by FBaggins
Let's try an example.

You run a busy lemonade stand and average $300/day in profits, largely because you have access to cheap lemons from already-paid-for trees. Unfortunately, on March 15th, the government decides that you may no longer use that species of lemon so your costs go up. You start growing new and better lemon trees, so you know that a few years down the road this might not be a problem... but right now you have to pay someone else for your lemons... and you start losing $100/day.

Your wife comes to you a few months later and wants to know how bad things are. So you tell her "well... this quarter isn't done yet, so let's look at the first six months of the year. Through the end of June we made $11,500. That's less than the same quarter last year, but we're still profitable."

The problem is that you aren't. You made $300/day for 74 days and then lost $100/day for the remaining 107 days. And you continued to lose $100/day for the almost three months following that.

IOW... it was a bald-faced lie. The company is not still turning a profit (present tense).

The author of the piece in kris' #4 is telling exactly the same lie. The only valid question is whether you and kris are too dense to see it, or are part of the lie.



The image comes from the Bundesnetzagentur (the government agency responsible for infrastructure in Germany). The data comes from ENTSO-E (the people who run Europe's grid). You can't wish it away. Sorry.





From Energy Exporter to Importer

Those benefiting the most from Germany's move to abandon nuclear energy are power plant operators in neighboring countries. At the Brussels-based European Network of Transmission System Operators for Electricity (ENTSO-E), computer monitors provide a clear visual representation of this phenomenon. Countries producing more electricity than they use are shown in yellow, while those that draw electricity from abroad are blue. Germany has been more blue than yellow in recent months, though this is also partially the result of an unseasonably cold summer that has provided little of the sunlight needed to generate solar power.

The computer system also indicates the sources from which electricity flows into Europe's pipelines. A thick arrow is constantly pointing from France to Germany. Since France hardly has any other energy sources, this electricity obviously comes from nuclear power plants.

Another thick arrow is coming from the Czech Republic, and it mostly represents electricity from the nuclear power plant in Temelin. Even Poland has an arrow pointing toward Germany now, though this one primarily represents electricity generated from brown coal in Europe's dirtiest CO2-belching facilities.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,786048,00.html
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. The original graph is available in this PDF:
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