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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 09:55 PM
Original message
"Land, sea and air forces as well as other war potential will never be maintained."
That is Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution. It has been chipped away at steadily since it was adopted in 1946, but IMO this is equal parts one of the most naive undertakings of modern man and one of the most nobel.

More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_9_of_the_Constitution_of_Japan

Sunday, Nov. 20, 2011

Article 9 group calls for end to nuclear power
Kyodo

The founders of an antirevisionist group stressed the need Saturday to remove nuclear power from the nation's energy policy in light of Article 9 of the Constitution and the disaster at the Fukushima No. 1 atomic plant.

"Our Constitution represents our determination to never again experience the devastation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki," said Kenzaburo Oe, the 1994 Nobel laureate in literature, referring to the two cities obliterated by atomic bombs in the final days of World War II. "But we have seen the nuclear disaster in Fukushima."

Oe, one of the nine founders of the Article 9 Association, made the remarks at the group's national rally in Tokyo, which drew about 700 like-minded people.

"Children in Fukushima will be forced to live for decades with fears of internal radiation exposure, and this is the negative legacy of possessing nuclear power plants. We have to minimize the damage in Fukushima and prevent a reoccurrence," he said, appealing for an end to nuclear energy.

Some lawmakers have ...


http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20111120a4.html

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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Gosh, I hope they can see their way out of this, they've suffered so much. I'm guessing they've ...
Explored and utlitized the other possibilities that the island affords. Such as solar, wind, geo-thermal, wave action, methane from waste, etc. They've got the technology to do all of it and they conserve. But they've got a big population and they are so tecn-intensive, it will still be a challenge to keep that up. Probably some of our posters from there can give us some insight.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. You might enjoy reading this
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. So naive, Everyone knowns nuclear power never killed a single Japanese. Never, ever.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Nuclear power or atomic bombs?
They are not the same, regardless of the beliefs of some.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. For sure. I don't think any atomic bomb ever contaminated an area as large...
as Fukushima or Chernobyl have.

There is a whole lot less fissionable material in any bomb than in a reactor.

Good try, though.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Sure, friendly Mr. Atomic fission is as harmless as a kitten.
Meow. Meow.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. A-Bombs require almost 99% pure U-235
Edited on Tue Nov-22-11 12:16 AM by happyslug
As mined and after removing all other substances, 100% Uranium ore, has less then .7% U-235.

A Nuclear plant can use (and generally does use) less pure U-235 (4-5%)then a bomb and for U-235 will fission at 4-5% U-235, at lesser Percentage of U-235 to U-238 there is NOT enough U-235 to fission:
http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/nuclear-faq.html

On the other hand, for a true Atomic Explosion to occur you have to have fission amount of almost pure (99%) U-235. A Uranium bomb is quite simple to make, in fact we we dropped a Uranium Atomic Bomb on Hiroshima, it was the First Uranium Bomb ever to go Super-critical (The Bomb Tested in Nevada was a Plutonium bomb, and much more complex design that many thought would not work, so if was Tested before being dropped, unlike the Uranium Bomb which was dropped WITHOUT being tested).

Just stating that an Nuclear Plant will NOT produce an Atomic Explosion, not enough Uranium 235 to do that. The Plant can leak and release a huge amount of radiation AND radioactive dirt but that that would do to some sort of explosion do to something else in the plant going "boom" mostly likely water being converted to Steam and the subsequent pressure do to the steam leading to an explosive like blast, which would spread any radiation and radiated dirt all over the place.

Side note: In most atomic Bomb explosion, the old line was do NOT worry about the Radiation, the blast and heat would kill you way before any radiation hits you. That is NOT the case with a "blast" from a Nuclear plant, since the blast is NOT from the Uranium but do to Steam or some other conventional explosion, radiation will go further then the blast will. Thus from a Nuclear Plant the main threat is NOT the Blast itself, but the radiation being released by the Blast (unlike A-Bombs where the radiation is minor compared to the Blast and heat produced by the A-Bomb).

Side note to the Side Note: One type of A-bomb blast will produce a lot of radiation, a surface blast of an A-bomb (Such as one of the "Bunker Busters" proposed by the Department of Defense). Since such a blast is right against the ground (or under ground, with some ground being through into the atmosphere), a huge amount of Radioactive Dirt will result and spread over the blast area. Much of the blast will be absorbed by the Dirt as the dirt is thrown into the atmosphere. For this reason, most use of Atomic Bombs have been aerial busts (as were both of the bombs dropped on Japan), minimize any radioactivity AND maximize any blast affect. When the US Air Force Dropped the Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki the Air Force used the bombs as Aerial Bombs (design to explode in the Air NOT as their hit of near the surface) for maximum blast affect, for it was the blast affect the Air Force wanted, the Air Force did not even think in terms of Radiation.

AS to the "Mushroom" cloud, that occurs with Conventional bombs when a surface blast is NOT designed, for the same reason you see one in both of your pictures, the blast affect upward eventually peters out and forms a "Mushroom". I have seen this on many combat films when the explosion was a conventional bomb but dropped as an Aerial bomb not a surface bomb. In the Nuclear Plant, it looks like a blast of Steam that eventually reached a level where the pressure of the Steam equaled the pressure around it so it peters out and form a "Mushroom". "Mushroom Clouds" are common in Atomic bomb explosions for the nature of Atomic Bombs is a huge increase in pressure do to the nuclear reaction and once the pressure has reach a level where the pressure equals the air Pressure around it, a "Mushroom Clouds" appear. "Mushroom Clouds" are common with Atomic Weapons, but seen in other places where pressure is high do to the explosion.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. You seem to overlook this: reactors also turn 3% U-235 into Pu-239, which is essential to Nagasaki
Edited on Tue Nov-22-11 08:10 AM by leveymg
Plutonium A-bombs and the Plutonium "triggers" inside H-bombs.

So, "civilian" nuclear power is actually not as peaceful as you seem to pretend. It is most certainly lethal.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. But again NOT enough to go "bomb"
The problem with Nuclear plants are Conventional explosions, mostly the rapid expansion of Water from Liquid to Steam. That expansion is the danger NOT a nuclear explosion as you are trying to imply.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. As Fukushima shows, "bomb" is not the only danger with nuclear plants.
But, the image of towering radiation clouds -- either by explosion or containment breach and meltdown -- sure seems to alarm most sane people. As it should.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I went into details on such problems, but again NOT Bomb related
By posting a picture of a NUCLEAR Explosion along with a picture of the Blast of Steam from Fukushima, you implied the possibility of a NUCLEAR explosion. That is what I was rejecting, I clearly pointed out the problems of RADIATION and the SPREAD OF RADIOACTIVE DIRT. Those are SERIOUS Problems with Fukushima and the main cause of the problems with the Nuclear disaster at Fukushima. That radiation and other radioactive dirt was spread by a STEAM explosion caused by a massive conversion of liquid water into STEAM as a side affect of the efforts to cool down the Nuclear pile. Once released the water vapor spread the radioactive elements all over the place. It is a debacle but again NOT related to any nuclear chain reaction that would lead to a Nuclear Explosion.

My point was simple, do NOT get hang up on Nuclear Explosions in Nuclear Plants, the problems are Nuclear material being spread by WATER VAPOR caused when Liquid water is converted into steam and the pressure exceeds the ability of the Containment dome to keep such elements within the dome.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. perhaps you'd like to address the issue of proliferation associated with...
Edited on Tue Nov-22-11 10:50 AM by kristopher
the spread of dual use nuclear technologies that go along with civilian nuclear power.

You've sidestepped it twice now.
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