High Oil Prices Met with Anger Worldwide

[phantom power]

And the leaders talked and talked and talked. But nothing could stem the avalanche.
--The gospel of Max

Rising fuel prices are stoking popular anger around the world, throwing politicians on the defensive and forcing governments to resort to price freezes, tax cuts and other measures to soothe voter resentment.

The latest example came this weekend in Nigeria, where President Olusegun Obasanjo promised in a nationally televised Independence Day speech that the cost of gasoline would not increase further until the end of 2006, no matter what happened in global oil markets. He acted after furious demonstrations shut down whole sections of major cities around the country over the past several weeks.

Although the relatively restrained level of fuel prices in (India, Pakistan, Indonesia, ...) has helped keep consumers spending and economies growing, the subsidies are imposing a severe burden on taxpayers and cannot continue without bankrupting some of the governments involved, economists contend. "These economies may be delaying a necessary adjustment to high oil prices," said Haruhiko Kuroda, the president of the Asian Development Bank, a Manila-based institution owned by 64 governments. He said the artificially low cost of energy translates into excessive consumption.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/100305A.shtml

[0007]

1. How much is gas in the U.K. per gallon?

[phantom power]

2. Last I knew, around $5/gallon, plus or minus.

Maybe somebody who really knows will post...

[0007]

12. I want to confirm what I've heard yesterday that it

was twelve dollars a gallon.

[Oggy]

18. Way off

I've just done the conversion and it is about $6.40 a gallon, ( that's at 96p a litre for unleaded.) but the price is dropping at the moment.

[lostinacause]

3. I should bring to attention the third paragraph.

It seems to disagree with "the gospel of Max".

[phantom power]

4. I'm not following you. Which paragraph?

[lostinacause]

7. The third one basically says that Intervention only leads to worse

problems. Over consumption and the lack of desire to look to cheaper solutions to gas consumption will do a great deal to harm to nations as their citizens will not make adjustments in consumption habits. Someone has to pay for the low prices. If there are no subsidies there would be resulting shortages.

[phantom power]

8. Hmm. I do not see how this contradicts The Most Holy Gospel Of Max

[lostinacause]

14. Though not explicitly max at the very least implies is a solution exists

even if it is something along the lines of run. In the case of the high gas prices the best solution is not to do anything to affect the gas prices but rather to look at energy consumption as a whole and see if anything can be changed to give people similar choices at a lower cost. If the issue cannot be solved through public choice the market will give people the proper incentives to consume less energy.

[phantom power]

19. Oh, I'm not completely without hope...

But I find that recent events often remind me of "Mad Max", or the predictions of guys like Kunstler. At least superficially. Riots in the streets, leaders trying to appease the masses, yada yada... It's happening already, and oil hasn't even run out. The demand is simply starting to exceed supply.

One thing I'm sure of, is that just because a solution exists, doesn't mean anybody is actually implementing it. For instance, subsidizing fuel prices is not a solution. It's a desperate stop-gap. As the article said, a government can only afford to subsidize for so long, before they are either forced to pass on the costs, or face bankruptcy.

Then what?

[lostinacause]

20. Demand cannot exceed supply. This is based on the way that demand and

supply are defined. They are both functions. For example the demand (Function) states the quantity of a good demanded at a certain price. The supply is the same way. Presumably one is increasing with respect to price and one is decreasing with respect to price. Because of this the demand cannot exceed the supply or vise versa. It does not make sense logically.

The best thing that governments can do right now is release the proper information to the people. That is that gas prices are going to continue to increase and there is nothing short of subsidies that can be done about it. Then remind them that subsidies end up costing the people in terms of tax money. People who conserve energy and make the necessary capital expenditures to increase fuel efficiency will be able to lessen the effect of gas prices on their budget. Developing and improving public transportation will also be effective in reducing the effect of high oil prices.

[4dsc]

31. What if there isn't a "cheaper" solution??

I could be wrong but the only "cheaper" solution to oil that I can think of is not using it at all?? Ride a bike, take a walk..

[malaise]

5. Tell me about it

We have daily increases creating total confusion in all sectors. Nothing creates riots like oil price increases.

[phantom power]

6. Do you work in finances?

[malaise]

9. No

I'm an academic

[louis-t]

10. Wow, I read that as 'alcoholic' the first time!

Mine eyes are playin' tricks.

[malaise]

11. hehehehe

Hardly - I'm usually the designated driver. I like a cold Red Stripe or a good glass of wine but friends laugh at me all the time because I never have more than one drink if I'm the driver.

[Strelnikov_]

13. “For Reasons Long Forgotten, Two Mighty Warrior Tribes Went To War . .”

Sounds like George Miller was thinking about the post peak oil ‘last man standing’ scenario 25 years ago.

“My life fades, the vision dims, all that remains are memories. I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams, this wasted land. But most of all, I remember the Road Warrior. The man we called Max.

To understand who he was you have to go back to another time. When the world was powered by the black fuel, and the deserts sprouted great cities of pipe and steel.

Gone now, swept away. For reasons long forgotten, two mighty warrior tribes went to war, and touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel they were nothing. They had built a house of straw. The thundering machines sputtered, and stopped. Their leaders talked, and talked, and talked. But nothing could stem the avalanche. Their world crumbled. The cities exploded. A whirlwind of looting, a firestorm of fear.

Men began to feed on men. On the roads it was a white line nightmare. Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage, would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice.

And in this maelstrom of decay, ordinary men were battered and smashed, men like Max, the warrior Max. In the roar of an engine he lost everything. He became a shell of a man, a burnt-out desolate man. A man haunted by the demons in his past. A man who wandered out into the wasteland. And it was here, in this blighted place, that he learned to live again.”

Opening Dialogue, “The Road Warrior”, 1981

[Oggy]

17. I never known Mad Max 2 as the Road warrior

Is that what it's name was in the US?

[happyslug]

21. Yes that was the Name in the US

The simple reason it was the FIRST ONE released in the US. Proceeding the first and third movies.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0082694/

[philb]

15. High prices are good; without them there would be unprecented disaster to

most of the worlds ecoystems. The problem is that prices haven't gone up fast enough to bring the major problems like global warming, worldwide mercury pollution, trade deficits, desertification, etc. to enough peoples attention apparently.


Subsidies and low prices only would avoid people dealing with the real and serious issues related to the bad leadership taking the world in all the wrong directions.

[Porcupine]

16. Stove fuel prices will spark the riots. Starvation is real for many

in the third world and basic grain prices are up as well as kerosene prices. Without stove fuel they cannot cook their rice, corn, cassava or whatever. There is no real alternative fuel in third world cities.

They will starve without intervention. In huge numbers. They cannot afford to match the U.S. price for fuel or for fuel fed grains.

[rfkrfk]

22. what is wrong with wood, as a fuel?

What is wrong with, wood, coal, garbage, as a fuel?

Why use expensive liquid fuel, when cheap
solid fuel is available?

[Porcupine]

23. Deforestation- it's not available.

If you look at pictures of the poor sections of third world cities you will notice a distinct lack of trees and greenery. Anything like a tree disapears in the middle of the night and becomes somebodies barbecue fuel.

There is just not enough wood in many countries to supply cooking needs.

[NNadir]

24. That is exactly the problem.

http://www.worldtrek.org/odyssey/asia/061700/061700jastreehugger.html

Between agricultural clear cutting a wood fuel, a whole host of problems, including flooding, have befallen the poorer regions of the world.

[Kolesar]

25. Equatorial countries' citizens can switch to "solar cookers"

I saw a few of these in use in Ohio at a street fair in mid-May. They were grilling veggie burgers or something. I expect that they would be more effective in an equatorial country.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22solar+cooker%22

[NNadir]

26. Yes, if you only eat during daylight hours on sunny days, you can do this.

I must admit that when I was in India and saw the slums outside of Mumbai, I saw little evidence of solar cookers even though there was plenty of sun. Presumably one uses these sorts of things outdoors, and though there were plenty of people outside standing around, I can't recall a single solar cooker. I don't know how that solar option plays out in there or whether anyone considers it. I'm not sure how much more deeply they contemplate the matter of cuisine and cooking beyond the question of whether they have food at all.

To be perfectly frank, I would have been afraid to go out and ask, even if my hosts (it was a business trip) had been willing to allow it.

I will say that the thought of people burning anything in that vast fire trap was frightening indeed. I don't know how or why more people aren't killed by rampaging fire in places like that. Maybe they are and we just don't hear about it.

[Kolesar]

27. Foods like potatos are only nutritious when cooked.

Heat is needed to break down the cells' walls. Digestive acids won't do it.

These cardboard box and oven bag cookers seem so cheap. It is possible that that country cannot even provide even that amount of material. I recall data from a decade ago that to provide every Indian with a knife, fork, and spoon would require more steel than the country produces in a year. Or, perhaps the problem is that their governments cannot even accomplish the necessary public education campaign on solar cookers.

They don't call these countries "third world" for no reason.

[Porcupine]

29. A link on the importance of stoves.

Warning Graphic pictures of burn victims.

http://solarcooking.org/Ecocookers.htm

This is very interesting and thurough. Good stoves are life and death issues in much of the world. This applies for people and the ecology.

[phantom power]

32. And if we're not out of wood now, we sure will be if...

6 billion people start burning it for energy.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pooka Fey]

30. ??? nt

[NickB79]

33. How many environmentalists are in Saudi Arabia?

They keep claiming they can pump more oil, but haven't been except for sour heavy crude that no one wants. Why exactly aren't the Saudis pumping more? Environmentalists?