Battery power as good as gas? (ultracapacitor)

[jpak]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1141599010468&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist971715454851

Battery power as good as gas?

A much-shrouded idea could give portable power a real charge, for a change — and change, well, everything

Mar. 6, 2006. 07:12 AM
TYLER HAMILTON

Imagine the day when cellphones charge up in seconds, laptop batteries never degrade, and electric cars have the same power, driving range and purchase price as their gas-powered cousins.


It's a consumer's dream and an engineer's fantasy: Safe, affordable and eco-friendly batteries that can store immense amounts of energy, allow for lightning-fast charging, and handle virtually unlimited discharging with little affect on quality.


Such a battery — a superbattery — doesn't exist today, but a tiny company out of Austin, Texas, is getting remarkably close, and the possibilities have caught the attention of the U.S. army, the former vice-chairman of Dell Computer, and one of the most respected venture capital firms in North America.

<snip>


EEStor's technology, to be accurate, isn't really a battery at all. In techie speak it's a ceramic ultracapacitor with a barium titanate dielectric. A mouthful to be sure, but what's important is that it's designed to combine the superior storage abilities of a battery with the higher power and discharge characteristics of an ultracapacitor.

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[Ursus Rex]

1. The batacitor!

Phillip Jose Farmer "used" these in the Riverworld books to power all the machineries of that whole world; they got their charge(s) from lightning strikes

I hope this stays out Here, and doesn't fall off the face of the earth - it would not only be a very useful technological advance, it would also be terribly cool to see yet another far-out concept realized

[Redstone]

2. Now we just need to build some PV infrastructure to charge them...

they won't do much goof for energy conservation if we charge them with electricity from an oil- or coal-fired generating plant.

Redstone

[megatherium]

7. PV is still a bit too expensive.

Solar thermal would be better, wind would be best; if you want to use renewables.

Would PV on an average person's rooftop provide enough power to recharge a vehicle? I've heard it said that it probably wouldn't be enough, you need grid power to charge cars. PV is expensive but not so expensive that many people wouldn't be able to put it on their roofs.

[eppur_se_muova]

8. charging car (actually pickup truck) from the house: link

http://www.cmse.utoledo.edu/cpeh/array.htm

I've posted this several times, but here it is again. Scroll down to "Grid-Connected Residential Solar Array".

[megatherium]

9. That's cool. But how much does 12kW of PV panels cost?

Or is it one of those things that if you have to ask, you can't afford it?

[eppur_se_muova]

12. Unfortunately, that's not in the article. A related article...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=43289&mesg_id=43289

describes a 4.5 kW system, but it's different technology (amorphous Si, I think; have to deduce these things, they're not spelled out in the articles). $37,460 total cost, with no tax breaks because it's too new to be included in the list of technologies that qualify.

The first house I referred to uses CdTe cells. http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ealcompaan/

Another solar PV home with VERY detailed cost breakdown is described at http://256.com/solar/
"Basically, our out of pocket is ~$19k initially (yes, a lot). Initial estimations said that after 3 years of rebates the system would have cost $9k with a break even of 13.5 total years. After 20 months of production information, break even looks to be closer to 9+ total years (8 more) if all of the numbers stay the same. Certainly if electric power prices go up (and they probably will), break even would be sooner. The panels have a 20 year warranty and after 20 years the manufacturers estimate they will be generating 80% of installation production levels. "

Another solar home site (actually domain): http://www.solarhouse.com/
For costs specifically go straight to http://www.solarhouse.com/costs.htm
"On the financial side, let's talk numbers. Let's assume you are going to purchase a 2 kW PV system for your home (I have a 4.2 kW system - larger than most). You've checked prices around the net and plan on paying $16,000 for it (in Maine, the state will pick up one-third of that cost or $5,333).

Let's figure that the cost of your PV system ($16,000) is part of your 30-year mortgage. If we assume an interest rate of around 7% (I know, I'm being pessimistic), that's about $100 per month for your solar electricity (approximately $50 per month in California). That's much less than leasing a car, and the investment continues to provide power year after year. The value of the system does not deteriorate. I would argue that as the cost of power increases, your system will grow in value. Most panels have lengthy warrantees - some as long as 25 years.

That's pretty good math."

ON EDIT: Interesting that people living as far north as Ohio and Maine are getting reasonable breakeven points on their PV investment, even with current technology. Economy of scale is only going to bring that breakeven point closer. And for those living farther South it should be even better.

[Fridays Child]

3. k/r

[phantom power]

4. Are barium or titanium limiting resources (like lithium)?

[jpak]

6. Doesn't appear to be (globally)

Titanium is the 9th most abundant element in the Earth's crust...

http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/titanium/stat/

...and barite is extensively used in drilling muds.

Global production is ~6 million tonnes per year....

http://minerals.usgs.gov/ds/2005/140/

[NNadir]

11. Titanium is a very common element, but it's processing is difficult.

In the last several years electrolytic processes have been patented that claim to reduce the high expense of reducing titanium, but the metal is notoriously problematic. Since titanium has a higher melting point than steel, and is stronger than steel, it would be a very valuable industrial metal were it cheap to produce. For instance if the World Trade Center had titanium girders, it would not have collapsed.

Titanium dioxide is an important agent of commerce, and is used in many products such as paints.

Here is a brief description of the situtation:

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20000923/fob3.asp

A similar situation used to prevail with aluminum. In the time of Napoleon III, his dinnerware was made of aluminum to impress his guests with his wealth.

[phantom power]

5. Independent testing results planned for this spring.

Maybe we can learn something from Feel-Good or EEStor when they get those results.

[Dogmudgeon]

10. Sounds like an electronics project article I saw recently

The idea was to use a large capacitor to store the charge and a voltage regulating circuit to discharge it in a steady, stable level of power. Otherwise, the capacitor discharges according to its own physical properties, which doesn't make for a good battery.

The gadget could reportedly be built for about $20, and although it reportedly didn't provide electricity for long, it could be charged up in seconds. Such batteries/ultracapacitors would probably be useful developments for low-amperage circuitry, e.g., semiconductor-based devices.

--p!