Another approach to Fuel Cell Cars - vanadium redox Flow Battery

[JohnWxy]

http://www.vrb.unsw.edu.au/


With high energy efficiencies of over 80% and a cycle life of greater than 16,000 cycles, the Vanadium Redox Flow Battery that was pioneered at the University of New South Wales has been shown to be superior to any other battery system currently available. Commercial installations have already been completed in several parts of the world for a range of stationary applications and full-scale manufacture has begun in Japan.



The unique feature of “instant recharge” by mechanical refuelling, also allows many benefits and much greater flexibility for electric vehicle applications so that market acceptance can be more readily achieved. VRB users would thus have the convenience of being able to either recharge their vehicles at home at night, or refuel any time of the day, the same way that they currently fill their tanks with gasoline or petrol. Unlike petrol, however, the vanadium solutions are never consumed, but can be recharged indefinitely. The spent solutions could thus be stored at the refuelling stations for recharging at night with off-peak electricity. The VRB recharging stations would thereby act as load-levelling systems, so that the need to build extra power stations to meet the increased power demand from electric vehicle charging would be deferred.

[napi21]

1. That's very interesting! I wonder if any US business or schools

are working on this new Tech. or are we leaving it up to Wales & the Japanese to do this too!

[Rolling Titanic]

3. Wales is

New South Wales in Australia.

[napi21]

4. Sorry. I'm a real dummy on Geography. Still doesn't change my

question. Are ANY US schools or businesses working on this new tech. or are we going to spend our time whining that all our jobs are going somewhere else?

Please don't misunderstand, I congratulate the people who discovered this, and those who are implementing it too! It doesn't matter where they are from! It's great news.

I also know there are lots of projects where scientists work together, sometimes thousands of miles apart, and even living in contries that are political enemies, the the end result is usually good for the WORLD!

I just get disgusted sometimes, hearing all the complaining, and especially this project, which is a possible help to the World oil shortage. Even our Prez. claims to want research increased in alternative energy sources, yet there was no mention that any US scientists are helping on this project, working with them, or even trying it on their own!

Sorry, I'm just depressed tody.

[JohnWxy]

8. Canadian manufacturer of Vanadium based redox regenerative fuel cells

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x47074

HEy, I was in the wrong hemisphere too. THis manufacturer is just North of us.

[FloridaPat]

2. Thanks

[eppur_se_muova]

5. Interesting...sort of. But it's really a lot like changing a battery.

Why not leave one set of batteries in the charger while one is in use? It amounts to the same thing, and you don't have to transfer liquids. Maybe for a very large system it is more convenient to pump the fluid contents of the cell, rather than move the whole cell, but for smaller systems the inconvenience outweighs the issue of transporting a little more weight.

Once you start swapping out the guts of the cells, there are many variations possible, not just this one. I have seen a fuel cell that operates off of aluminum as the electrolytic "fuel". Presumably you recycle the Al2O3 that forms, which would be cumbersome and a lot less efficient.

[JohnWxy]

7. This system has some very significant advantages -

Shelf life is theoretically unlimited.

The solutions have an indefinite life so that replacement costs are low (only the battery stacks would need replacement at the end of their life).

Indefinite life of solution means that they can be continuously recycled so that there are no waste disposal problems.

Vanadium redox couples are electrochemically reversible so that high energy efficiencies are possible.

The system can be recharged at high rates at a fraction of the time needed for the lead-acid battery.

Vanadium is readily available and relatively low cost, so that manufacturing or capital costs are low.


There is another application for this technology than just fuel cell cars. To take wind power beyond supplying 20% of the total electrical supply you havae to have a way of storing excess power generated above immediate demands which can be used later. This technology offers a possible way to do that which might prove to be better than pumped hydro-power.

VANADIUM SOLUTION IN BOTH HALF-CELLS.

Cross-mixing of electrolytes across the membrane does not lead to the contamination of electrolytes.

The solutions have an indefinite life so that replacement costs are low (only the battery stacks would need replacement at the end of their life).

Indefinite life of solution means that they can be continuously recycled so that there are no waste disposal problems.

Vanadium redox couples are electrochemically reversible so that high energy efficiencies are possible.

The system can be recharged at high rates at a fraction of the time needed for the lead-acid battery.

Vanadium is readily available and relatively low cost, so that manufacturing or capital costs are low.


SAME SOLUTION PUMPED THROUGH EACH CELL IN STACK MEANS THAT EVERY CELL IS AT THE SAME STATE OF CHARGE.

System monitoring and maintenance is simple since each individual cell does not need to be carefully controlled and adjusted.

By monitoring electrolyte state-of-charge, the capacity of the battery can be easily measured and therefore the capacity of the whole system can be easily controlled.

Cells can be stacked in series and parallel with no cell reversal problems.

Trim cells can be used to adjust the voltage as required.

The system does not require overcharging for cell equalization so the hydrogen explosion hazard is eliminated.


System Characteristics

No complex solid phase changes are involved during charging and discharging which lead to shedding or shorting in conventional batteries.

The system can be fully discharged with no adverse effects to the battery.

Shelf life is theoretically unlimited.

It is possible to charge this battery system at 2 volts and discharge at 100 volts without affecting battery life or performance.

Since all cells are fed from the same electrolyte reservoirs, all cells are the same state-of-charge.

There is the possibility of mechanical or "instant recharge" by replacing the electrolytes.

[rfkrfk]

6. just about useless, energy density is pitiful

it might have niche applications,

for passenger cars, forget it

[JohnWxy]

9. The American Society of Mechanical Engineers may not agree, sorry.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x47193

I am more interested in Power system applications for this. As for cars the hydrocarbon fueled Fuel Cell will take over after ethanol in ICEs.

This article (at the link) was published in Mechanical Engineering a publication of The American Society of Mechanical Engineers.

[rfkrfk]

10. for a car, forget it

energy density is comparable to a lead-acid storage battery

this might work in a city bus, if it is worth all the trouble.
this might have stationary applications

my understanding is these things tend to have
'life cycle cost problems'.

otherwise, you would see them a lot more
as electricity load levelers

[JohnWxy]

11. for vehicles , looks like your right.

energy density not great enough (my bad on title). But it's application to power systems - stationery - has real possibilities.

check out installed system here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x47193


more on Canadian manufacturer here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x47074



BTW, where are you , in England??? I'm in the Eastern time zone and my follow-on post to yours shows as posted an hour earlier! Unless your on a boat in the Atlantic ocean with an up-link??