Japan to test hybrid diesel/fuel cell train.

[NNadir]

TOKYO - Japan's biggest rail company will soon test using fuel cells to help power a train, following the lead of automakers in rolling out cleaner, more efficient transportation.

Pollution-free fuel cells generate electricity through a chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen, producing only water vapor as exhaust.

The initial train will consist of a single car powered by electric batteries and capable of traveling at up to 62 miles per hour. A diesel-run generator will provide most of the electricity, with two 65-kilowatt hydrogen fuel cells chipping in about a third...

...It should also be quieter than conventional trains.

"It's the first time this technology has been used in railway cars," company spokesman Akira Mori said Friday. "But it's still too soon to talk about when it will start carrying paying passengers."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060414/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_hybrid_train

The "pollution free" spin borders on the absurd - but we should be used to that. Still, this is an interesting advance, and exciting.

[benburch]

1. Diesel/battery locomotives are already in service in the USA.

http://www.railpower.com/products_hl_ggseries.html

[NNadir]

3. I didn't know that.

I did know that most locomotives are in fact generators, but I did not know about the hybrid technology.

I think that the difference here is the fuel cell. Whether it offers an advantage over traditional types of batteries, I guess, we'll see.

Thanks for the link.

[benburch]

5. Somehow I doubt there is much advantage other than weight.

And the weight is GOOD in a locomotive, to a point, because weight on the wheels converts power to traction.

[NNadir]

8. This could be the case, but there may be some efficiency advantages

as well.

The issue of weight may apply more to freight trains, but weight of course, always involves some extra energy costs. There is probably some cost/benefit optimization available here.

One of the cool things about the hybrids in general is they recover downgrade energy as well.

[benburch]

10. You might be able to store more dynamic breaking in fuel than

in a storage battery.

[DUHandle]

2. Contemporary locomotives are diesel electric

a design that started in the early 1950's and replaced steam

[benburch]

6. Yes, but they store no power.

A diesel-battery or diesel-fuel cell hybrid does.

When a diesel electric locomotive of the standard type uses dynamic braking, the electricity heats resistor banks and blowers move air past them to carry away the energy. In a hybrid, the storage cells take at least part of the dynamic braking load and use it later.

[SpiralHawk]

4. - Bush

pResident AWOL

[dcfirefighter]

7. AFAIK Diesel-Electric trains spend a lot of time idling

I don't believe that they are supposed to be loaded without being at normal operating temperatures. The Hybrid ones in the link are yard switchers, and would spend a lot of time idling. Regular locomotives would benefit less from hybrid technology, UNLESS much of the motive energy came from an off-line source (preferably a nonpolluting source).

[benburch]

9. Imagine a locomotive in banking service.

All it does is couple to a freight, help haul that freight over a mountain, and wait on the other side for a train in the other direction.

On the way DOWN the mountain, it uses dynamic braking. That energy is wasted. If this energy instead went into cracking water for hydrogen, then much of the return climb could be powered with that fuel.

[dcfirefighter]

14. How about a flywheel

These are people trams, and they use old-tech metal flywheels, but the idea is valid: http://www.parrypeoplemovers.com/technology.htm

[benburch]

15. A flywheel is a good alternative.

However, a tram spends most of its time on totally FLAT track. There are some mounting torque issues in a train that uses eased curves and which climbs grades. Solvable, certainly, but requiring more development. A battery bank is a known quantity.

[phantom power]

17. Back in 1990, I saw a guy who used two counter-rotating flywheels...

which eliminated the problems with gyroscopic effects. He had designed a sports-car using the flywheels as breaking storage. For added fun, he could control the relative speeds of the flywheels, and stand the thing up on two wheels with the gyroscopic force.

[AndyTiedye]

11. Put a Pantagraph On It And You Can Run From Overhead Wires

Even if you don't have wires everywhere, you can put them in the built up areas
and the heavily-used main lines, so you pollute less where it matters the most.

[benburch]

12. British Rail type 73 is like this.

It is an "Electro-Diesel" which can run on third rail where there is third rail, and off a diesel generator set where there is not.

[dcfirefighter]

13. Kicker rails / wires

For climbing those hills & accellerating from stops.

[Kolesar]

16. Pennsylvania railroad used to have RRs with overhead wiring &pantagraphs

I don't know when that electric system was in use, though.