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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 04:46 PM
Original message
Lengthy Nanotube Fibers Could Trump Traditional Textiles
"Scientists have manufactured the longest fibers yet out of tiny strawlike carbon nanotubes. The recording-breaking rope, which can by made any length, far surpasses the previous best of 20 centimeters.

Alan H. Windle and his colleagues at the University of Cambridge developed a novel method of making nanotube fibers that is similar to spooling yarn out of a ball of wool. Using ethanol as a source of carbon, the researchers reacted it with the chemicals ferrocene and thiophene and shot the mixture into a furnace heated to more than 1,000 degrees Celsius. Inside the oven, the blend turned into a jumble of hollow carbon strands, which the scientists dubbed "elastic smoke." The team then pulled fibers (see image) out of the furnace by winding them on a rotating rod. In a report published online by the journal Science, the inventors write that "the present direct spinning process opens a novel way of one-step production of nanotube fibers, ribbons and coatings with potentially excellent properties and wide range applications."


What's amazing to me about this is how low-tech it is. I always though buckytube filaments (that is what they are, right?) would cost millions of dollars a strand because they had to be assembled at the molecular level. Apparently you just throw some simple chemicals into an oven and spin away.
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southpaw72 Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. so are we going to be wearing nanotube underwear soon?
sweet!
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. underwear first

high-performance clothing and structural materials first, but the real payoff will be this:

http://www.liftport.com/

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southpaw72 Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. fountains of paradise!
one of my favorite A.C. Clarke novels.... could it really happen? again i say: sweet!
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. signs point to "yes"

(so says my magic 8-ball). What amazes me is that they claim it will only cost about $15 billion dollars. That's astonishingly cheap, especially considering that it will open up the solar system. A small fraction of what we spent on Iraq this year
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cprise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Link?
Pretty please? :)

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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Here're several (from news.google.com)...
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 11:47 AM by Atlant
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Sorry About the Missing Link
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treepig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. i don't think people realize just how dangerous nanotechnology is
what alot of people don't seem to realize is that there are some areas of research we ought not to pursue, because the consequences might be so dire:

The nightmare is that combined with genetic materials and thereby self-replicating, nanobots would be able to multiply themselves into a “gray goo” that could outperform photosynthesis and usurp the entire biosphere, including all edible plants and animals.



adapted from the new york times, 19 august 2002

Opposition to Nanotechnology
By BARNABY J. FEDER

The great Gray Goo debate is beginning to matter.

The controversy involves the potential perils of making molecular-size objects and devices, a field known as nanotechnology.

From its earliest days, nanotechnology has had its fear-mongers, warning of novel and terrifying risks.

Who can be sure how products so small that they would be invisible to the human eye will behave, particularly when the nanoworld's basic design elements — atoms and small molecules — are governed by the surreal laws of quantum mechanics rather than the more familiar Newtonian physics of large objects?

The ultimate nightmare is so-called Gray Goo catastrophe, in which self-replicating microscopic robots the size of bacteria fill the world and wipe out humanity.

. . . Monsanto and others interested in the technology . . .


editorial comment by me: is there no end to the evil ways of monsanto??


more from http://www.etcgroup.org/text/txt_article.asp?newsid=399

Suddenly the nanotech industry and its friends are scrambling to pretend nanotech problems that have raised royal concerns exist far in the future or only in the pages of science fiction. Everything is under control, they tell us, and there is no need to fear. The truth is that one mistake has already been committed - the mishandling of regulation and safety consideration of nanoparticles. Now, in the emerging field of nanobiotech, there may be more problems brewing. A second mistake may prove unforgivable. Grey Goo (the result of self-replicating nanomachines run amok) may sound like science fiction, but when biotech muscles in on the nano-act, Green Goo consequences are real cause for concern. This ETC Group Communiqué is a short overview of the Grey Goo / Green Goo debate and a warning that if techno-politicians overeagerly dismiss the Goo brouhaha, they do so at all our peril.

Nanotech bills itself as a "green" technology - one that can clean up the environment, improve health worldwide, and even end hunger. Mindful of another technology - biotechnology - that made many of the same promises and ran afoul of public concerns, the industry repeats the mantra that it will not make, and is not making, the same mistakes. So far, they are mistaken.

STRIKING MISTAKES: First, despite a quarter-century of lab work on nanoparticles, scientists failed to establish a common laboratory protocol to ensure the safety of workers exposed to particles. Then government allowed nanoparticles into consumer products in the absence of regulatory mechanisms. Particles that had been approved for consumer products at the micro- or macro- scale were not tested again when introduced into the same products at the nanoscale. Indeed, nano companies pooh-poohed the notion that nanoparticles need to be evaluated for their health and environmental impacts, despite that the impetus for their development stemmed from the radical changes that can happen when a substance is reduced to the nanoscale. Because quantum mechanics takes over at the nanoscale, there may be changes to a substance's conductivity, elasticity, reactivity, strength, color, and tolerance to temperature and pressure. Some nanoparticles can slip past immune systems and even cross through the blood-brain barrier undetected - great news for drug delivery, really bad news if the particles given carte blanche turn out to be toxic.

. . . more at the above-listed link.

WAKE UP PEOPLE, THE END OF THE WORLD IS AT HAND!!





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Emperor_Norton_II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Okay, I'm confused...
I can't tell if you're serious or if this is a deeply vicious and well-composed parody of certain other individuals who shall remain nameless. I kinda hope it's the latter.

But if it's the former, I'd like to direct you to

http://www.crnano.org/

Hell, just to provide better information on the subject, I'd like to direct everybody to this.
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treepig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. the "Center for Responsible Nanotechnology"
Edited on Thu Mar-18-04 03:26 PM by treepig
what kind of orwellian double speak is that? you've gotta be kidding!!

i think you've seen other threads where people bring up things like "Newton's Laws of Thermodynamics" to try to disprove various scientifically dubious theories such as evolution, as well as very real scenarios such as The nightmare where self-replicating, nanobots multiply themselves into a “gray goo” that outperform photosynthesis and usurp the entire biosphere, including all edible plants and animals.

really, is anyone going to take a "Law" seriously that comes from an era when society allowed slavery and scientists believed in the phlogiston theory? (see http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0838824.html )

more words for the wise at:

http://www.etcgroup.org/text/txt_article.asp?newsid=373

Gray Goo refers to the obliteration of life that could result from the accidental and uncontrollable spread of self-replicating nanobots. The term was coined by K. Eric Drexler in the mid-1980s. Bill Joy, Chief Scientist at Sun MicroSystems, took Drexler’s apocalyptic vision of nanotechnology run amok to a wider public.5.

Drexler provides a vivid example of how quickly Gray Goo could devastate the planet, beginning with one rogue replicator. "If the first replicator could assemble a copy of itself in one thousand seconds, the two replicators could then build two more in the next thousand seconds, the four build another four, and the eight build another eight. At the end of ten hours, there are not thirty-six new replicators, but over 68 billion. In less than a day, they would weigh a ton; in less than two days, they would outweigh the Earth; in another four hours, they would exceed the mass of the Sun and all the planets combined."6.

To avoid a Gray Goo apocalypse, Drexler and his Foresight Institute, a non-profit organization whose purpose is to prepare society for the era of molecular nanotechnology (MNT), have established guidelines for developing "safe" MNT devices. Foresight recommends that nano-devices be constructed in such a way that they are dependent on "a single artificial fuel source or artificial ‘vitamins’ that doesn’t exist in any natural environment."7. Foresight also suggests that scientists program "terminator" dates into their atomic creations…and update their computer virus-protection software regularly?

Most nanotech industry representatives have dismissed the possibility of self-replicating nanobots and pooh-pooh the Gray Goo theory. The few who do talk about the need for regulation believe that the benefits of nanotech outweigh the risks and call for industry self-regulation.8.

REMEMBER PEOPLE - MONSANTO IS INVOLVED IN THIS TECHNOLOGY, AND WE'RE GOING TO BE RELYING ON INDUSTRY SELF-REGULATION?!?!?!?




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Emperor_Norton_II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Okay, now I'm convinced - this *is* a parody
I mean, nobody could be so utterly braindead as to say

really, is anyone going to take a "Law" seriously that comes from an era when society allowed slavery and scientists believed in the phlogiston theory?

when talking about Newton, right? I mean, this is Newton, the guy who sort of figured out why things fall down, that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, created the calculus.

Nobody could be so progressiver-than-thou, right? This is a put-on, right?
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treepig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. oh well, it looks like my attempts
Edited on Thu Mar-18-04 06:03 PM by treepig
at being a head-up-my-ass luddite are falling flat.

guess i'll have to stick with the fear-mongering over at the concurrently running "Dihydrogen Monoxide Threat" thread - there seems to be danger all around these days.

but seriously, you really don't remember the "Newton's Second Law of Thermodynamics" discussion of couple of months ago? perhaps it was a different emperor norton who participated there. and who knows, there could be hundreds of zillions of nano-emperor nortons running amok even as i type this. but i fear we'll never know until its much too late.
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Emperor_Norton_II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. ...
...that was the most incoherent thing I've ever read on these boards. Thank you.
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lutherj Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Second Law of Thermodynamics wasn't Newton but Kelvin
and was first defined in the mid to late 19th century. I can't follow what it has to do with nanotechnology either.
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Emperor_Norton_II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I concede the point with a bit of embarrasment.
As for what it has to do with nanotechnology, some critics have claimed that various physical laws (including thermodynamics) on the atomic level prevent the creation of molecular nanotechnology.

Is it right? Looking through the books I'd have to say I don't think so, but IANAP, so YMMV.
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lutherj Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. This danger is included in a book by Martin Rees, England's
Astronomer Royal. The book is: Our Final Hour: A Scientist's Warning: How Terror, Error, and Environmental Disaster Threaten Humankind's Future In This Century--On Earth and Beyond

Rees gives 50/50 odds that mankind will make to the end of the 21st century, and lists a variety of threats that could wipe out civilization. He includes things like global warming, asteroid impacts, bio-engineered viruses, and nanotech gray goo.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. You Realize, Of Course
that none of this microfiber stuff has to do with self-replicating entities.

All they are doing is heating an oven, throwing in some chemicals, and winding the fibers around a spindle. A different way of making fibers, but one that results in an especially strong molecular structure. Like super-polyester.
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lutherj Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. Would it be more comfortable than polyester? Would it pick up
odors the way polyester does?
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