Here is one for y'all to tear apart...

[Javaman]

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

[madokie]

1. hmmmm, you would think in their infinite wisdom they would know the difference from a motor and an

engine. gasoline engine, electric motor. 'nuff said

[bluescribbler]

2. One point

"it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer."

This is somewhat disingenuous. The amount of energy needed to produce a car is a one shot expense. It pales beside the amount of energy to operate the vehicle over its lifetime. So, if we invest a little extra energy at the beginning, (during manufacture), we save a lot of energy during the life of the car. So, a Prius is still a lot cleaner than a Hummer.

The comparison to the Aveo might be well founded, but as I'm not familiar with the Aveo, I'm not sure. The Prius is a mid size car, with a fair amount of interior space. I wear 36" inseam pants, and I can sit comfortably in either the driver's seat or the shotgun seat. Can I do that in an Aveo? Hell, I can't even do that in my wife's Saab 9000. So, I'm not sure the cars are really equivalent. Perhaps[s a more apt comparison might be with the Chevy Lumina?

[madokie]

3. you done much better than me, I didn't make it past the engines part

trashtalk, all of it. methinks

[BOSSHOG]

4. More evidence conservatives are idiots

and waste an incredible amount of energy defying the truth. limbaugh read this garbage earlier in the week for just one purpose. To give the lemmings another reason to hate liberals. Liberals by the way the one's who are actually trying to do something for our country.

Imagine spending your entire life trying to fend of facts.

[TreasonousBastard]

5. They make a lot of assumptions, but...

I suspect they're not too far off. Comparing it to a Hummer is a bit off the wall, though, even though it does make you sit up.

Battery manufacturing, and disposal, is pretty nasty stuff, although a lot of other production is nasty stuff, too.

I already did the numbers when I was driving about 60-75,000 miles a year for the job. Trading in or selling my $5,000 Saturn LS1 that got me an honest highway 35mpg for a $20-25,000 Prius to get another 5 or so mpg just didn't make any sense economically or environmentally. Considering that my old Corrolla wagon with a stick got an honest highway 40mpg, the Prius doesn't stack up well at all.

Now, rather than get all het up about expensive hybrids, increasing the typical large pickup or SUV mileage by just 2-3mpg would probably save a hell of a lot more fuel than trying to switch from econoboxes to hybrids-- think percentages.

One trend I hate is getting rid of four cylinder engines with good gearboxes. My Saturn, along with Accords, Camrys, and some others, had a 2 liter 4 and a perfectly matched transmission and axle ration to give reasonable acceleration and excellent mileage. They don't make it any more and all you can now get are 6's and 8's. Honda and Toyota are trashing the 4's, too, and other US manufacturers gave up on them long ago for midsize cars. Mercedes also killed the four in its C-Class, and I don't think you can get one in a Beemer, either.

Too bad. Not only was my Saturn great on gas, but I had a friend with an Accord with a four, and his mileage was as good as mine. And nobody ever accused any Honda of being slow.

[eppur_se_muova]

6. So if you're a leadfoot driver, you can bring the MPG rating down to something "realistic"?

Typical RW nonsense. 80 MPH is "more realistic" for most drivers? WTF? Maybe in Montana. I haven't seen a speed limit over 50 MPH anywhere in my area.

I'm sure the EPA "reassesment" was under Bu**sh** White House orders.

[lakeguy]

7. all mileage estimates go down

with the EPA revision. you can't say that the prius went down and then compare that to an old estimate for a different car/truck. there are only two cars sold in the US that get over 40 mpg, the civic and prius hybrids. there are over 100 sold in europe so it is possible to get better gas mileage without using a hybrid.

yes the prius is expensive and a has a helluva lot more options than a crappy aveo at "half" the price. u won't even get a radio for that unless you're comparing to the gold rimmed prius with hovercraft abilities. once again, the anti-environmental facists put forward an argument to keep polluting based on lies. get a hummer, it's no more polluting than a prius!!!

[jpak]

8. And just who conducted this brilliant analysis???

A firm hired by the US auto industry to "debunk" the green attributes of Japanese hybrids???

Oh yes indeed....