Guide to waging war against 'infidels'

[drdon326]

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/08/31/1062268475894.html

The title is innocuous enough and the contents, in part, read like the local bowling club's constitution. It is anything but.

General Guide to the Struggle is a handbook for waging war against infidels and spreading a noxious brand of Islam to "the four corners" of the earth".

The Age has obtained a copy of the previously secret Jemaah Islamiah manual which, according to evidence in the Bali bombing trials, is held only by the heads of the terrorist organisation's four regions, or mantiqis.

According to intelligence sources, the handbook was co-written by Mukhlas, one of three brothers before the courts over the Bali bombing, in May 1996. (One of these, Amrozi, has already received the death penalty.) Mukhlas, 43, took over as the head of Jemaah Islamiah in South-East Asia in 2002 after Hambali fled Malaysia and went into hiding before his capture last month.

The manual does not provide instructions on how to build bombs or detonate them. Rather, it talks in euphemisms, such as "Territorial Development" - "a continuous process, before, during and after the creation of the Islamic state".

Written in Indonesian and Arabic, it lists "love of jihad in the path of God and love of dying as a martyr" as fundamental tenets of JI beliefs. Enemies are simply "satanic demons and satanic humans".

......................................................................

interesting

[Systematic Chaos]

1. Muslim fanatics have "killing the Infidels" to keep them focused

while Christian fundies can't wait to destroy the entire farking planet so that they can get a little Piece of Heaven(tm).

Both groups are equally perverse, scary and dead wrong.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. They never read the words of the Prophet

then. For Mohammed said there were two kinds of jihad-the lesser, to be used ONLY WHEN you were not allowed to practice your faith; and the greater-the struggle within yourself to overcome your own limiting thoughts and to find and kindle the Divine Spark within.

[rini]

24. Of

course they have read the words of the Prophet, the problem is in the interpretation. Just as fundies in this country read the new testiment and turn it on its ear, so do Islamists. So please everyone, just because some terrorist uses the word Muslem, do not be taken in, that matches Falwell using the word Christine to make his doctrine Christian, it's not. These terrorists use religion to make a point, to brain wash people but it is not Islam.

[Violet_Crumble]

3. Not particularly interesting...

Not unless anyone wants to retrace yr footsteps back to that highly progressive site Little Green Footballs (btw, it appears at LGF just above a rant about the looney left) where you found this article and see a good example of a site run by and visited by hate-filled bigots whore an article from a reputable and very credible source to further their bigoted rantings that involves portraying Muslims as the only terrorists etc...

Violet...

[Fight_n_back]

4. Then maybe

http://jemaahislamiah.newstrove.com/


You will find an article more to your liking here.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. Nope...

Yang, I made it pretty clear in my post that I didn't have a problem with the article or The Age, which is a newspaper I read on a daily basis, so I'm not really sure why you think I was complaining about the article itself...

Violet...

[K-Centrist]

5. This screed sounds like

. . . the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion," the antisemitic hoax cooked up by the Czar's secret police around the end of the 19th century and cited by every anti-jewish crazy since then. Anyone here competent to judge whether this handbooks is real? (because I'm sure as heck not)

[bemildred]

6. Is "indonesian" a language?

I had much the same thought, sounds either phoney or
written by someone with a 4th grade intelligence who
is constructing a "secret club".

[Violet_Crumble]

8. I learnt a little bit in high school...

but basically all I can do is throw a few insults round in Indonesian and say good morning/evening and tell whoever's listening I think my teacher is good and I'm going for a walk after I have a conversation. No Indonesian would understand a word I'd say anyway due to the crappy accent and that I learnt a stilted formal version of the language that they probably don't use...

My guess is this handbook probably would be for real. I've seen Bashir be interviewed before he was arrested and he's a nutcase, even if he does have an obvious charisma about him. And he had some weird ideas about JI's plan for an Islamic nation including much of Australia. The stuff's weird, but pretty amusing....

Violet...

[bemildred]

9. That is interesting.

I figured Indonesia would have a bazillion languages with all those
islands, with some lingua-franca in use among them of course.

I figured it (the handbook) was probably real too. Evil geniuses
usually are not all that bright. It's not really difficult to blow
shit up.

[Darranar]

10. They do have a bazillion languages...

but there is an official one.

[bemildred]

16. Let me guess, Javanese?

[Violet_Crumble]

18. Bahasa?

I'm only guessing here, but the name of the textbook we used was 'Bahasa Indonesia'...

Violet...

[Darranar]

23. Indonesia...

Languages: Bahasa Indonesia (official, modified form of Malay), English, Dutch, local dialects, the most widely spoken of which is Javanese.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/id.html

So you're correct, Violet.

[Darranar]

11. Yup...

yet another shockingly anti-muslim post. tell me, drdon, do you support the war in Iraq?

[Fight_n_back]

12. Let me get this straight

you think supporting the war in Iraq is anti muslim but you don't consider unbridled support for groups that call for the complete distruction of Israel as anti semitic?

Iraq is but one Arabic country (albeit multi ethnic) Israel is the only Jewish country.

Interesting thoughts you have on this subject.

How would you resopnd to this question "Yup..you consider discussion of terrorism as anti muslim...tell me did you support Al Quedas attack on New York?".


Surely we can do better.

[Darranar]

13. OK...

Look - I have watched drdon's posts many times. Thread after thread have been anti-Muslim. Though I cannot condemn this particular thread as racist, when threads like these are posted again and again, and it is made to look like all Muslims are guilty, then i get annoted.

A reasonable discussion of terrorism I will wholeheartedly participate in, especially while the other participants are reasonable left-wingers like me, you, and most of the people on DU.

I don't consider supporting the war in Iraq anti-Muslim. I wanted to know if drdon supported it, because anti-Muslims do support the war in Iraq.

I do not think, as of now, that drdon is an anti-Muslim. I would simply like it if he would cut down the attacks on Muslims while ignoring the abuses made by non-Muslims.

[Fight_n_back]

14. The Catch 22

is that when dealing wiht Wahabbism one is dealing a subset of Muslims.

A lot of the time drdon uses the rhetoric he hears from the left regarding Jews. He has been through a lot of bitter wars here. What you see now in the IP forum is pretty tame compared to some of the holocaust deniers we used to have in their.

[Darranar]

15. Okay...

Despite the number of my posts, i haven't been here for very long, so I wouldn't know about those holocaust deniers on DU.

I have seen their filth elsewhere, though, and it doesn't make me repeat it about Muslims.

[Fight_n_back]

17. I was mostly

just defending a brother. I cannot find verification of the existence of this document. The group I was able to find many stories about that I linked in a post above.

[Violet_Crumble]

20. That doesn't wash...

I've been here a long time and have never seen any holocaust deniers posting in I/P. And what's this crap about rhetoric from the Left regarding Jews? If you believe that criticism of Israel equates to criticism of Jews, then I can understand you saying that, even though I clearly don't agree with it. If you don't, then maybe you could steer me to where this rhetoric from the Left regarding Jews is, and you won't waste my time by pointing me to some anti-Semitic crap and trying to tell me that's the position of the Left...

Even if what you said had been true, that doesn't make it okay for someone to react with a clearly anti-Arab, anti-Muslim attitude. All it would mean is that someone has sunken to the point where it's easier for them to polarise the entire issue and to demonise what they see as the other side because it's easier for them to do that (and in this particular case, the person involved has sunk so deep they've deliberately edited an entire sentence mentioning civilian casualties out of a recent article discussing the killing of a Hamas militant) than to admit openly that many innocent people are being harmed and killed thanks to the efforts of extremists on both sides of the issue...

Violet...

[Fight_n_back]

21. What are you talking about?

Are you responding to the wron post by accident?

Are you equating talking about terrorism with being anti muslim? Is that your new political tool?

[Violet_Crumble]

22. That should be pretty obvious...

I was responding to the second paragraph of yr post, which was after all the bulk of what yr saying. Don't try any of that 'are you saying....yr still beating yr wife??' shit on me, Yang. It was obvious what in yr post I was responding to, and if you want to play silly-buggers trying to act like I equate any discussion of terrorism with anti-muslim sentiment, go for yr life, champ....

Go back and reread my post, and this time try and address what I actually said instead of conjuring up things I didn't say...

Violet...

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darranar]

26. Like who?

n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

27. Really?

Actually, I haven't called any poster in this forum or in I/P (which is where I assume yr referring to) anti-Muslim. Maybe you should put aside some time and actually read my posts before commenting on what you imagine I say. Feel free to show me these posts I've never done, or better still, get in touch with the mods and ask them why they're allowing someone to post who's constantly breaking the rules of the forum. They'll be quick to let you know that I don't accuse other posters of being anti-Muslim....

I take it that these Muslims that I accuse of being anti-Muslim are nothing but a creation of an over-active imagination....

Violet...

[Violet_Crumble]

19. Don can correct me if I'm wrong...

..but yes, he does support the war in Iraq. He went through an entertaining stage where he used to regularly post Thomas Friedman articles on the subject in F/A. I much preferred the Thomas Friedman stage than the current one...

Violet...