No victory in Spain for terrorists.

[necso]

So the Just Plain Wrong Wing (nothing right about it) is crowing about a "victory for terrorists" in the Spanish election.

While it appears that the bombings and the Spanish government's attempt to profit off of redirecting popular anger did effect the outcome of the election, the message of all this is quite different.

The Spanish people have not bowed to terrorists, rather they have quit bowing to the misguided bullying of the American government. The Spanish people have said no to government lies, spin and distortion (theirs and ours). The Spanish people have said no is wasting resources, prestige and goodwill on a Middle East "Crusade" that has nothing to do with battling terrorism. The Spanish people have said no to the terrorists and no to a government that by misdirecting the fight against terror, was leaving the door wide open to it.

Now Spain is free to fight terrorism, unshackled by Bushco$'s far right ideological delusions and foreign policy (one that in many ways, seems to be originating from the Likud far right).

The Spanish people have stood up for their national interests, because government lies and misjudgments, much more than terrorists' bombs, tore the shrouds from their eyes.

Would that the American people had such good sense.

[Fovea]

1. I think that it is plainly clear

that the Islamists got the result they hoped for.
And certainly I would mark it as a phenomenally large strategic defeat for the House of Bush. Now all other coalition members will see that Bush's Iraqi adventure has consequence that their populations were never willing to bear.

This could well be the start of the collapse of the coalition due to political nullification. It will end either with the destruction of the right in America, or civil war. It will not probably be quickly apparent which way it is going, either. For a while, it will be going both directions.

Either way, hold on to your breeches, boys and girls.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

3. The "Islamists" did NOT get the wanted result. Iraq was the.....

wrong target!!! :eyes: The Spanish people now what a lying POS
that Aznar and the Popular Party are and voted accordingly.

[northzax]

2. See, I kinda agree with this

but also that the terrorists got what they thought they wanted (and yes, terrorists have affected elections before, this is hardly the first time)

And to think that Spain doesn't know how to deal with Terrorists, given the long history, and the seeming impending victory of the Castilians, over ETA.

[NV1962]

5. Victory is the end of violence

And: Castillian is mostly a reference to the "Spain Spanish" language - not the people (unless you really refer to people from the two Castilles... which doesn't include Madrid.) The "generic" term is simply Spaniard.

[northzax]

6. depends on your definition, I suppose

ETA is increasingly a non-entitiy in Spanish, or even Basque politics. The Basques have a pretty good thing going right now, increasing autonomy from Madrid, growing wealth and political power. It almost serves as a lesson in how to defuse a terrorist group and alientate it from the people it claims to represent. Is there any doubt that both Spain as a whole, and the Basques as a people, are better off for this than otherwise?

And since the Bourbons are the kings of Castille, and the unifying force in Spain (despite choosing a non-castillian capital) I'd say the Castillians won.

[NV1962]

8. The thing is, terrorists aren't democratic

You're absolutely right that support for ETA is based on a small slice of Basques - but it's still approx 150,000 people.

The problem in essence is this: how do you convince terrorists that democracy is the worst possible system except for all the others?

Concepts like "majority" or "minority" are useless in the face of terrorists, they are committed to their "us versus them" - which makes it all the more baffling how in other countries (say, the US) that "us versus them" has received such widespread acceptance as a logical and effective means to counter terrorism under whatever name, brand or flag.

Menawhile, whoever may have won - it's clear who lost.

Last Thursday, 201 names were added permanently to that list.

[necso]

4. Victory is not ...

just getting what you want.

The neocons wanted an invasion of Iraq, they got it. Do we have victory in Iraq?

The removal of Spanish troops from Iraq will not change the situation there nor will it effect American plans. But there is now one more nation willing to take a realistic view of the fight against terrorism and not blindly follow inept American leadership. Spain hereafter will be a more dedicated and effective opponent of terrorism. Anyone who thinks otherwise is underestimating the Spanish people and their new government.

So how is this victory for the terrorists?

[Fovea]

7. Halliburton and KBR wanted an invasion of Iraq

They got it, and billions in profit. For Halliburton and KBR, they won a victory, only Americans and the citizens of the coalition of the criminal lost.

Those who wanted westerners out of the Islamic world won a victory by the reversal of Spain's policy. That in no way menas that the Spanish voting population is capitulating, merely realizing the Bush made a big mistake and expressing the fact that the voters never really wanted this invasion.

But that victory is proof that Bush and company has no idea how to engage the threat of terrorism. I hope that we can reject Bush in November without the loss of life.

The moving of the al Qaeda offensive to peripheral member nations is not something Bush was prepared for, if he thought that it would solidify, rather than break apart the coalition. I expect to see a lot of voter nullification this year.