new york, new york

[Krinkov]

If you want to know why so many gun owners are against registration and 'sensible gun control,' this should clue you in:

-EDIT: see below for the text, the 'hold your horses' post-

thats right.. confiscation, ex post facto.


i remember how angry i was when the repukes were in favor of violating the 4th amendment (seizure of properties suspected of being connected to drugs)

Seems the dems are now jumping aboard that bandwagon too..

[Squatch]

1. Hmmm...nice logo they've chosen...

Nothing like an AK-47 with a (feminine-looking) target...perforated through the 10-ring to really show that gun owners are the non-violent, non-mysogynistic sort.

[iverglas]

5. but hey

Don't miss the "Ladies Military Forum" there!

I can only assume that they discuss the proper way to serve tea to one's commanding officer, or maybe how to remain fresh under fire ...

[Squatch]

14. LOL...Fashion trends in assault weapons

Don't you know that bayonets are so passe?

But, red-white-and-blue bikinis are the perfect accessory to any fully-armed bleach blonde.

http://www.moviebadgirls.com/ar15_page1.html

Couldn't bring myself to post one of these pictures...

[iverglas]

15. such delicate sensibilities

Don't tell me you've missed the oeuvre of whatsisname ... Oleg Whosit ... hold on, I'll go find a link for you. But don't click without being forewarned.

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/nudes
The items seem to change from time to time. Woman's nipple with wrench has been replaced by other tasteful arrangements of objects.

Oleg's quite the iconic liberty-lover among the rkba-head crowd, you should know.

[Squatch]

16. The Gun-Lover's Georgia O'Keefe

The link is being blocked here at work. I wonder why? :shrug:

I think I've seen his stuff before...

[-..__...]

23. Ahemmmm....

Need I remind you?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x95935

"Since we re-organized our forums a few weeks ago, DU now has two forums for discussions relating to Guns and 2nd Amendment issues. Each of those forums has a specific purpose. Help us keep posts on-topic in each of those forums.

Discussion of gun-related public policy issues belongs in Gun Rights & Gun Control Forum.

Personal-interest discussion about guns and weaponry should be posted in the Outdoor Life Group. By "personal interest" I mean, any discussion that is unrelated to public policy, such as: Posting pictures of guns or discussing the leisure activities of hunting or shooting.

Currently, the outdoor life group hosts discussions related to a number of outdoor activities, including hunting, fishing, skiing, hiking, climbing, and camping. Members are reminded to be respectful of individuals that engage in any of these activities.

DU moderators have the authority to move threads which are placed in the wrong forum or group."

Feel free to split hairs concerning what is "discussion that is unrelated to public policy" (starting a thread), and justifying a response that includes a link to what has been commonly defined here in the past as "gun porn". Unless that is, a (rather tasteful and well composed), photo of parachute cord creasing a womans vagina has anything to do with " public policy issues"?


Anyhow, thanks for the link B-)

[anonymous44]

18. yay

definitely gun porn if you know what i mean. :)

[-..__...]

21. Thanks for the link... bookmarked.

It was getting time to change my desktop anyways. :thumbsup:

[benEzra]

17. Umm, that looks like a standard law enforcement training target...

which is designed to be asexual...

and that's almost certainly not a real AK-47, but a civilian lookalike (real AK's are restricted NFA Class III firearms) though it's hard to tell at this resolution...

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[petronius]

2. Your link is not viewable without registration

Do you have a link to a news article or more generally accessible source, or can you post a snip?

[Inland]

3. Oh, the ironies. If only you were buying a gun.... nt

[petronius]

11. I thought of that too...

Still, at least we're consistent in our distaste for registration of all sorts (except here, of course). :)

[iverglas]

12. no distaste here

If I'd wanted to read it, I would have registered. I wouldn't have sat around moaning about how I couldn't read it without registering, that's for sure. Why would anybody else care?

(Here, we had someone else offering something for discussion that no one else could read. Hardly amounts to me wanting to read something. I couldn't even know whether I wanted to read it without registering.)

Wanna read? Register ... read ... damn, that's easy.

Of course, the process is more like acquiring a licence to do something than like registering ownership of something, I'd say.

Wanna gun? Get licence ... acquire a firearm ... bingo.

[petronius]

13. Moaning?

Our definitions of that must vary...

However, if you want to be excessively serious about this backwater of the thread, I will tell you that the main point of my original response was to tactfully suggest that the OP provide a mainstream link rather than a discussion forum of unknown provenance. Others made that point more forcefully. The distaste for registration was secondary - I do find that the more places I register at the more spam I end up receiving...

You make a very interesting point about 'registration' - it's as if one word could have multiple meanings depending on context...

[Krinkov]

6. sorry about that

1st bill: Ending the grandfather clause. People who purchased something legally are now criminalized.

bill A03371
Adds semiautomatic rifles, shotguns or pistols or a replica or a duplicate
thereof manufactured on October 1, 1993 and semiautomatic rifles, shotguns or
semiautomatic pistols lawfully possessed prior to September 14, 1994 to the
definition of assault weapon; provides for the superintendent of the division
of state police to accept surrendered assault weapons; declares such assault
weapons surrendered a nuisance.


2nd bill: Expands the current NY "assault weapons" ban, criminalizing post ban guns.

bill s2445
Adds additional weapon models to the definition of an assault weapon and adds
related definitions.

search around for details, its too long to post here.

[iverglas]

9. amazing how that works

People who purchased something legally are now criminalized.

That's what usually does happen when society decides to ban a behaviour that it formerly permitted.

Canada's firearms grandfather clauses generally require that the firearm be registered, of course, and then permit the owner to retain it (subject to specific storage and transportation requirements, for instance, in the case of now-prohibited weapons). The owner may not transfer it, and upon the owner's death it may not be legally held by anyone else.

The ban provisions in New South Wales, Australia, appear to have included a buy-back at current market value, for a specific period, as I recall.

I suppose it might be reasonable to offer an option: register, comply with certain requirements (relating to storage and transportation, and allowing for inspection to confirm that the firearm has not wandered off and is being properly stored), and have the right expire with the owner, or take a buy-out.

It's a funny thing about firearms; they don't tend to have a shelf life. They tend to just go on and on and on.

It's not unreasonable to have permanent grandfather clauses for things that aren't going to last forever. Pit bulls die; that sort of thing.

Another common form of grandfather clause is for non-conforming property uses: the use of real property in a way that does not comply with new zoning regulations. In that case, indeed, the non-conforming right can generally be transferred. But then, there really isn't a lot of danger of somebody making off with the property and using it to kill somebody. And the public knows what and where the non-conforming use is, and can tell at a glance whether it's being engaged in legally.

Conversely, one might imagine that anybody who owns one of these things could sell it on outside New York State, no? I mean, wouldn't that be inter-state commerce or something?

Oh well. I guess nothing's been confiscated yet after all, anyhow.

[iverglas]

4. completely inappropriate

I have no desire to register at that place, so I cannot read whatever appears at the link posted. I don't even know what it's about. And the cryptic "confiscation, ex post facto" sure doesn't tell me.

If what appears at the place linked to is a published article from elsewhere, surely a link to that article can be posted. If no link is given at that place, a google search for a sentence from the article ought to find it. Hell, if somebody posts part of it, I'll volunteer to look for the original.

For all I know, the link is to someone's unverified tale of something or other that someone or other has characterized as "confiscation, ex post facto".

Absent an actual fact to discuss, I'm failing to see the point of this thread remaining.

[Krinkov]

7. hold your damn horses

geez, i posted the link because the thread has excerpts from the bill and links to the .gov all in one place. Not do discuss anyone's imaginative interpretation of the site graphics as advocating the 'death to females.'



Didn't realize you had to be registered to view. Link removed.

Bill 1 text:

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A03371

A03371 Summary:

SAME AS No same as

SPONSOR Bing

COSPNSR Eddington, Englebright, Paulin, Dinowitz, Cook, Seddio, Lavelle,
Ortiz, Stringer, Espaillat, Benedetto

MLTSPNSR Brennan, Cymbrowitz, Diaz L, Diaz R, Gordon, Gottfried, Hooper,
Lafayette, Peoples, Pheffer, Sanders, Towns, Wright

Rpld S265.00 sub 22 (e) sub (iv) & (v), amd SS265,00, 265.20 & 400.05, Pen L

Adds semiautomatic rifles, shotguns or pistols or a replica or a duplicate
thereof manufactured on October 1, 1993 and semiautomatic rifles, shotguns or
semiautomatic pistols lawfully possessed prior to September 14, 1994 to the
definition of assault weapon; provides for the superintendent of the division
of state police to accept surrendered assault weapons; declares such assault
weapons surrendered a nuisance.

A03371 Actions:

02/02/2005 referred to codes

A03371 Votes:

A03371 Memo:

TITLE OF BILL: An act to amend the penal law, in relation to adding
certain weapons to the definition of assault weapon and repealing
certain provisions of such law relating thereto

PURPOSE OR GENERAL IDEA OF BILL:

To repeal the grandfather clause in the definition of assault weapon
which currently allows the possession of an assault weapon if the weapon
was lawfully possessed prior to September fourteenth, nineteen hundred
ninety-four or if the weapon was manufactured on of before October
first, nineteen hundred ninety-three; to provide for the surrender and
destruction of such weapons.

SUMMARY OF SPECIFIC PROVISIONS:

Section 1 Subparagraphs (iii), (iv), and (v) of paragraph (e) of subdi-
vision 22 of section 265.00 of the penal law are amended to prohibit the
possession of an assault weapon lawfully possessed prior to September
fourteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four, and is amended to prohibit the
possession of a weapon as defined in Appendix A to section 922 of 18
U.S.C. as such a weapon was manufactured on October first, nineteen
hundred ninety-three.

Section 2 Paragraph one of subdivision a of section 265.20 of the penal
law is amended to provide that all assault weapons must be surrendered
to the superintendent of the division of state police within 15 days of
the repeal of the grandfather clause.

Section 3 Section 400.05 of the penal law is amended to provide that
assault weapons surrendered after the repeal of the grandfather clause
will be declared a nuisance and be destroyed.

Section 4 Effective date

JUSTIFICATION:

In 2000, New York`s penal law was amended to define military-style weap-
ons and weapons with excessively large ammunition capacities as "assault
weapons." The possession and sale of such assault weapons was banned but
a "grandfather clause" was included, allowing the legal possession of
those assault weapons that were lawfully possessed since September 14,
1994 or manufactured on or before October 1, 1993. Given the current
heightened concerns regarding terrorism, and the danger posed by these
military-style and large capacity weapons, this bill repeals the assault
weapon grandfather clause and prohibits the sale and possession of all
assault weapons in an effort to protect citizens and law enforcement
personnel.

PRIOR LEGISLATIVE HISTORY:

2003-04: A7333-A Referred to Codes

FISCAL IMPLICATION:

None.

EFFECTIVE DATE:

This act shall take effect on the first of January next succeeding the
date on which it shall have become law.










Bill 2 text:

BILL TEXT:


STATE OF NEW YORK
__________________________________________________ ______________________

2445

2005-2006 Regular Sessions

IN SENATE

February 15, 2005
___________

Introduced by Sens. SCHNEIDERMAN, DUANE, KRUEGER, PARKER, SAMPSON,
A. SMITH, M. SMITH, STAVISKY -- read twice and ordered printed, and
when printed to be committed to the Committee on Codes

AN ACT to amend the penal law, in relation to the definition of an
assault weapon

The People of the State of New York, represented in Senate and Assem-
bly, do enact as follows:

1 Section 1. Subdivision 22 of section 265.00 of the penal law, as added
2 by chapter 189 of the laws of 2000, is amended to read as follows:
3 22. "Assault weapon" means (a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an abil-
4 ity to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the follow-
5 ing characteristics:
6 (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
7 (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
8 the weapon;
9 (iii) a bayonet mount;
10 (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a
11 flash suppressor;
12 (v) a grenade launcher;
13 (vi) a forward grip;
14 (vii) a barrel shroud; or
15 (b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following
16 characteristics:
17 (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
18 (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
19 the weapon;
20 (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
21 (iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
22 (c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable
23 magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:

EXPLANATION--Matter in italics (underscored) is new; matter in brackets
< > is old law to be omitted.
LBD09147-01-5

S. 2445 2 1 (i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the 2 pistol grip; 3 (ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash 4 suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer; 5 (iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encir- 6 cles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with 7 the nontrigger hand without being burned; 8 (iv) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is 9 unloaded; 10 (v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or firearm; 11 12 (vi) a second pistol grip; or 13 (d) any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such 14 weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known 15 as: 16 (i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all 17 models); 18 (ii) UZI , Galil and 19 UZI Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz); 20 (iii) AR70; 21 (iv) AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR; 22 (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC; 23 (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12; 24 (vii) Steyr AUG; 25 (viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; 26 (ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street 27 Sweeper and Striker 12; 28 (x) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 29 85, SA 93, VEPR; 30 (xi) AR-10; 31 (xii) Calico Liberty; 32 (xiii) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU; 33 (xiv) Hi-Point Carbine; 34 (xv) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1; 35 (xvi) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle; 36 (xvii) M1 Carbine; 37 (xviii) Saiga; 38 (xix) SAR-8, SAR-4800; 39 (xx) SKS with detachable magazine; 40 (xxi) SLG 95; 41 (xxii) SLR 95 or 96; 42 (xxiii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14; 43 (xxiv) Tavor; 44 (xxv) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or Thompson 1927 Commando; 45 (xxvi) Calico M-110; 46 (xxvii) MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3; 47 (xxviii) Olympic Arms OA; 48 (xxix) Armscor 30 BG; and 49 (xxx) SPAS 12 or LAW 12; or 50 (e) a conversion kit; 51 (f) provided, however, that such term does not include: (i) any rifle, 52 shotgun or pistol that (A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or 53 slide action; (B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or (C) is an 54 antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16); 55 (ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine 56 that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;

S. 2445 3 1 (iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds 2 of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine; 3 (iv) a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof, 4 specified in Appendix A to section 922 of 18 U.S.C. as such weapon was 5 manufactured on October first, nineteen hundred ninety-three. The mere 6 fact that a weapon is not listed in Appendix A shall not be construed to 7 mean that such weapon is an assault weapon; or 8 (v) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic 9 pistol or any of the weapons defined in paragraph (d) of this subdivi- 10 sion lawfully possessed prior to September fourteenth, nineteen hundred 11 ninety-four. 12 § 2. Section 265.00 of the penal law is amended by adding eight new 13 subdivisions 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, and 31 to read as follows: 14 24. "Barrel shroud" means a shroud that is attached to, or partially 15 or completely encircles, the barrel of a weapon so that the shroud 16 protects the user of the weapon from heat generated by the barrel, but 17 does not include a slide that encloses the barrel, and does not include 18 an extension of the stock along the bottom of the barrel which does not 19 encircle or substantially encircle the barrel. 20 25. "Conversion kit" means any part or combination of parts designed 21 and intended for use in converting a weapon into an assault weapon, and 22 any combination of parts from which an assault weapon can be assembled 23 if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. 24 26. "Detachable magazine" means an ammunition feeding device that can 25 readily be inserted into a weapon. 26 27. "Fixed magazine" means an ammunition feeding device contained in, 27 or permanently attached to, a weapon. 28 28. "Folding or telescoping stock" means a stock that folds, tele- 29 scopes, or otherwise operates to reduce the length, size, or any other 30 dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of a weapon. 31 29. "Forward grip" means a grip located forward of the trigger that 32 functions as a pistol grip. 33 30. "Pistol grip" means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other char- 34 acteristic that can function as a grip. 35 31. "Threaded barrel" means a feature or characteristic that is 36 designed in such a manner to allow for the attachment of a firearm as 37 defined in section 5845(a) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 38 5845(a)). 39 § 3. This act shall take effect on the first of November next succeed- 40 ing the date on which it shall have become a law.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Romulus]

19. more tipping of the hand

revealing the anti-gun-owner end game:

DC-style gun control, state by state.
NYS will be next to go "DC style," and I'm surprised IL didn't beat them.
Handguns are next on the block in NYS, you read it here first.

[MrSandman]

20. That has been the direction of NY for years...

Is this what it might take for SCOTUS to review a Second and Fouteenth Amendment case?

[Columbia]

22. SCOTUS is way too chicken

Well, if anything I guess this shows that the slippery slope for gun control does exist.

[MrSandman]

24. I kinda hope the side down the slope ...

Will scare SCOTUS into action.

There are several Constitutional non-2A arguments that may conceivably apply to this proposal.

[Columbia]

26. I hope so too

But I wouldn't count on it.

If SCOTUS won't take it as a 2A case, I bet NY could probably get away with it as long as they paid for surrendered weapons.

[MrSandman]

27. Didn't see a provision...

For compensation.

[Columbia]

28. Could be a way out then...