Gun Checks Block Fewer Purchases in 2002

[CO Liberal]

Gun Checks Block Fewer Purchases in 2002

WASHINGTON — About 1.7 percent of potential gun purchases were blocked last year by the nation's background check system, slightly below the 2001 level, according to new Justice Department (search) figures.

About half of the 2002 rejections by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (search) were for people who were convicted felons or who had been indicted for a felony. Another 14 percent were blocked because of a domestic violence conviction or restraining order.

All told, about 136,000 of the 7.8 million background checks were rejected in 2001, the Bureau of Justice Statistics (search) said in a report released Wednesday. That compares with 151,000 rejections out of 7.9 million checks in 2001, a rate of 1.9 percent.

Since the system began in 1994, about 976,000 of the 45.7 million background checks have resulted in rejections, for a total rate of 2.1 percent.

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,97701,00.html

[1a2b3c]

1. And how many convictions for trying to buy a gun with a felony record?

Im gonna guess less than 100.

Edit: I guess i could just go with a $1, a little National Rifle Association urging immediate grassroots action on Bob Barker pun for ya.

[MrBenchley]

2. Gee, you never hear of gun dealers

making a citizens arrest when the background check turns that up, do you?

[1a2b3c]

3. They call the cops

[MrBenchley]

6. DO they?

Hahahahahahahahaha!

[1a2b3c]

10. Do they not?

hahahahahahha!

[MrBenchley]

11. Prove it then....

[1a2b3c]

13. You first

[MrBenchley]

14. Gee, I'M not the one claiming gun dealers call the cops

that was YOU...

[1a2b3c]

21. Yes and its a fact.

You were the one claiming they dont. They have to call the law enforcement when they check the form 4473. Are you implying that a gun dealer should have to hold a felon at gun point until the cops arrive at his shop because someone tried to buy a gun illegally? Wouldnt his original phone call to perform a background check be enough and the police should do a follow-up on it?

Glad i could prove myself correct, now can you prove they dont call the cops?

[MrBenchley]

22. Hahahahahahaha....

"Glad i could prove myself correct"
Gee, no wonder the RKBA crowd thinks Mary Rosh is a scientist....

[Spoonman]

4. And yet another

brilliant solution presented by the hoplophobic crowd.

[MrBenchley]

12. Gee, spoon

Even you ought to be able to figure out that gun dealers do no such thing....and that the issue of how many are "convicted" is another lame RKBA pile, which originated with the dishonest imbeciles at the NRA..

[Spoonman]

34. Gee B

I guess liquor store clerks should arrest underage kids when they try to buy booze too.
Should the convenience store clerk that arrest kids for trying to buys cigarettes.

The law requires them to deny the sale, not enforce the violation.

Report it to the police, and hopefully if they're out of the donut shop, they will catch the person.

[DoNotRefill]

37. here are some...

http://www.click2houston.com/news/2465682/detail.html

"Washington, DC - Americans for Gun Safety (AGS) today urged Congress to quickly approve the McCain-Lieberman gun show bill after a background check at an Oregon gun store led to the arrest of an apparent member of the terrorist group Hamas.

Ali Khaled Steitiye was arrested in Beaverton, Oregon after he attempted to purchase a gun from The Gun Broker, a federally licensed gun dealer in Tigard. Steitiye, a Lebanese native, has a long record of felony convictions from various states. This week, he was indicted by a federal grand jury for illegal possession of firearms and for lying on the federal form used to conduct a background check. In a search of his home, police found weapons, ammunition, $20,000 in cash, fake citizenship documents, and fraudulent social security cards."

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,546987,00.html

Please note, this comes from your favorite site.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/1999/Jan-28-Thu-1999/news/10500615.html

From the "if Sarah Brady says it, it must be true" file:

" Because the background check was there, hundreds of fugitives have been arrested on outstanding arrest warrants."
http://www.bradycampaign.org/press/release.asp?Record=133

[slackmaster]

5. No data on how many subsequently went to an illegal source

And acquired a gun anyway.

Anyone who has been rejected by NICS has already committe perjury by making a false affidavit on BATF Form 4473 or whatever it's called now. Until a concerted effort is made to arrest and prosecute them nobody can claim that existing laws are being enforced in a serious way. It's really a sad joke that the easiest way to determine if you are known to be a prohibited person is to try to buy a gun.

[MrBenchley]

7. Why bother...

There's a lot of states where they can just head to the nearest gun show...

[Fescue4u]

8. Where they can break the law there instead??

If you are banned from buying a gun, you are banned from buying a gun ANYWHERE...including gun shows.


Of course men who are intent at violating laws against murder, usually ignore lesser laws as well.

[MrBenchley]

9. Gee, but since there's no background check required

Who knows?

[Fescue4u]

15. Well Obviously the person breaking the law does.

The thread was about folks who were denied a purchase.

If they were denied via form 4443, and then they go and aquire one anyway, its a safe bet to know that they are breaking the law.

But then again, breaking the law IS a requirement to be a criminal, is it not?

[MrBenchley]

16. So why not let the gun industry cash in, eh?

"But then again, breaking the law IS a requirement to be a criminal, is it not?"
And skirting or ignoring the law seems to be a requirement to be in the gun industry....

[Fescue4u]

17. If you know of someone ignoring or skirting the law.

Please turn them in.

Im quite serious.

[MrBenchley]

18. To who? NRA life member John AshKKKroft?

"What The NRA Doesn't Want You to Know about Enforcement

For years, the NRA has successfully blocked the computerization by ATF of gun sale records from out-of-business gun dealers. Thanks to the NRA-imposed restrictions, when a gun is traced as part of a criminal investigation, the files must often be retrieved manually from warehouses where the records are kept. As a result, hours or even days are added to the time needed to complete the successful trace of a crime gun. As a result, criminals avoid detection and criminal investigations are impeded.

The NRA has maintained its steadfast opposition to waiting periods for handgun purchases, despite the need for a "cooling off" period to prevent impulse crimes and suicides. Because of the NRA, the waiting period included in the original Brady Law expired in 1998, and the gun lobby is fighting efforts to reinstate it.

The NRA likes to talk tough when it comes to criminals. But in 1999, the NRA spent almost $4 million to try to pass a referendum in Missouri that would have allowed almost anyone, even convicted criminals with misdemeanor records, to carry a concealed weapon almost anywhere in the state. The referendum would have even permitted people convicted of stalking and child molestation the ability to carry a hidden handgun into bars, stadiums, parks, school yards and other public places. Fortunately, Missouri voters rejected the NRA's intense lobbying effort to put more guns on our streets, voting the measure down. (The GOP just overrode the governor's veto and instituted it anyway...so much for what voters want..)

At every opportunity, the NRA has sought to decrease or eliminate the funding of the ATF, the law enforcement agency whose mission it is to oversee gun crimes and trace the guns used in the commission of crimes. Because of NRA-sponsored legislation, investigators seeking to trace the path of the guns used in the Littleton school massacre were forced to plod through paper records stretching among numerous states, culminating in a dead end at Colorado gun shows. Only through legwork and luck were investigators able to piece together how the four weapons ended up in the hands of the teenage shooters. The NRA continues to vociferously oppose any record-keeping system that would allow law enforcement to easily trace guns used in crime.

In 1986, the NRA got legislation passed which restricts ATF inspection of gun dealers to once a year. Even dealers who are the source for hundreds of crime guns cannot be routinely inspected more than once a year without a special court warrant. Of course, this is consistent with the 1995 NRA letter describing ATF agents as "jack-booted thugs," which caused former President George H.W. Bush to publicly resign his NRA life membership in protest.

As of April 1999, there were more than 100,000 federally licensed firearm dealers (FFL's) in America — more licensed gun dealers than there are McDonald's franchises. Yet there were only 1,783 ATF agents to police them; many of those agents are detailed by law to only investigate crimes involving explosives."

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issuebriefs/preventing.asp

[Fescue4u]

20. To the police..You know the guys in Blue with the guns?

Thats who.

[slackmaster]

19. Or make a citizen's arrest

Just flash your Social Security card and slap on the 'cuffs.

:D

[RoeBear]

23. Did you notice this mis-statement...

...in the article?

" Background checks are required for purchases at all federally licensed gun dealers, but not at gun shows and some other venues"

Everyone here knows that a 'federally licensed gun dealer' has to run a background check regardless of where he sells the gun.

[MrBenchley]

24. No, we noticed that the author

correctly described the gun show loophole, roe.

[slackmaster]

25. Yes, that's how the distortion gets perpetuated

A demonstrably incorrect statement by the press that gets taken as gospel by the vast hordes of people who don't know jack shit about guns or gun laws.

For the benefit of newbies to this subject here is the truth about the so-called gun-show loophole:

Whether or not a background check is required depends on the seller, not the venue. If the seller is a federally licensed gun dealer a background check is required wherever the sale takes place. If the seller is a private citizen state law determines how the transaction is processed.

For your entertainment, here is the BATF's official cartoon depicting how sales are processed at gun shows:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/ffrrg/theater/toon8.html

[MrBenchley]

26. An utter pantload, slack...

In fact, a good portion of the vendors at most gun shows are unlicensed gun dealers who call themselves "private citizens"....and in most states they do not perform any background check whatsoever.

[RoeBear]

27. Define good portion...

...I've only seen one or two private citizens with tables at gun shows and they were selling hunting rifles.

[MrBenchley]

28. Gee, roe.....

Then what's the fuss about the gun show background checks about, do you suppose? Why does the gun nidfustry spend millions keeping it open?

"Gun buyers and merchants alike are grumbling about a new state law requiring private sellers to conduct criminal background checks before they sell weapons at gun shows.
In November, 70 percent of Colorado voters approved the measure to close the so-called gun show loophole by requiring background checks of prospective buyers in sales by unlicensed vendors. Only licensed sellers previously had to do the checks.
n all, 39 people submitted to the background checks Saturday and Sunday. "

http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/94/128/01_95_m.html

[RoeBear]

30. What does the gun industry...

...have to do with private individuals selling guns? Private individuals aren't selling new guns they are selling old guns.
If anything the gun industry (I'm disappointed in you for not calling them the 'corrupt' gun industry)would profit by private individuals being forced to come to them and get their background checks done at say 5 bucks a pop.

[MrBenchley]

36. What does the gun industry have to do with selling guns?

Ho kay.....

[RoeBear]

39. Does GM or Ford profit when I sell my old car?

Neither does the gun industry profit when a private individual sells their old guns. It would be to the gun industry's benefit if private sales were made more difficult. That way people would more likely be forced into buying new guns.

[slackmaster]

29. In California there are never any at all

Private sales are all done through licensed dealers here.

[RoeBear]

31. How does that work? nm

nm

[slackmaster]

32. Consignment through a licensed dealer

From the perspective of the buyer the experience of and procedure for buying a used gun is the same as buying a new gun.

At a gun show, you pay money to the dealer who is either selling or acting as consignee, and complete the From 4473. You and the dealer walk the gun over to another FFL holder who lives near you. That dealer will act as a transfer agent; holding the weapon for 10 days and processing the state background check. After 10 days you go to the dealer's place of business and pick up the gun.

Definitely no "gun show loophole" in California.

[DonP]

33. Same in Illinois

All sales at gun shows must be processed through a FFL holder.

I have a C&R (Curio & Relic) FFL license and I can't even buy any C&R stuff with out going through (and paying for) the NICS. According to BATF rules I should be able to but everyone errs on the side of caution.

I have also not seen any klan or white power types at local shows in the last five years, since I started going regularly. In fact it's a pretty diverse audience. The Will County show, the one I go to most often, is usually about 30% African-American and maybe 20 - 30% Latino.

Then there's us middle aged white guys.

Klan nerds might feel more than a little uncomfortable if they did show up. But I guess that's a more comfortable stereotype for some folks to cling to, the ones that haven't gone to a show or went to one 20 years ago.

No loopholes here either.

Don P.

[RoeBear]

35. So then I can guess...

...that CA and IL have low crime rates.

[DoNotRefill]

38. gee, I guess you missed Learning Theater #8....

Or, if you didn't, please quote the dialog about selling guns at gunshows without doing a background check...