Father Of Alleged Killer Says Son Was 'Gun-Crazy'

[CO Liberal]

The big burning question in my mind is "how did this guy manage to get hold of a gun?" - Wayne

* * * * * * * * * *

Father Of Alleged Killer Says Son Was 'Gun-Crazy'

Suspect Remains At Large

SHARONVILLE, Ohio -- The father of a man accused of killing an ex-girlfriend and her friend said his son shouldn't even have had the gun he allegedly used in Tuesday's murders.

James Patrick Dick, 34, remains at large after allegedly shooting Sandra Ross, 31, and Carl Shivener, 51, at Ross' home on Plainfield Road in Sharonville late Tuesday, WLWT Eyewitness News 5's John London reported.

Dick's father, also named James Dick, told London Wednesday that he has a restraining order out against his son, who's spent most of the last 10 years suffering from mental depression and violent tendencies.

"He's even told me and my wife that we're not his parents," Dick said. "He says Jim Morrison is his dad -- the rock star."

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http://www.channelcincinnati.com/news/2509151/detail.html

[Withergyld]

1. you forgot this part

"He's gun-crazy," the elder Dick said. "But he can't buy one from a retailer. He shouldn't even have had one because he's already been a convicted felon."

[CO Liberal]

2. I Didn't Forget It

DU rules say we can only include four paragraphs.

[iverglas]

3. maybe

... somebody's brother-in-law ... "borrowed" ... his/her gun, and lent it to the unfortunate young man ... for a small fee ...

But seriously. Mental illness is indeed one of the most problematic wild cards in this whole arena.

In this fellow's case, there was apparently good reason to both suspect that he might be violent and take steps to limit his opportunities to cause harm. Too often, no one who is capable of recognizing the warnings, or doing something about them, has any chance to see what might be coming.

As long as so many firearms are floating freely among the population with so little deterrent for their owners to ensure that they don't fall into hands like his, restraining orders, even in the cases where there are known grounds for imposing them, are really just pretty pieces of paper.

.

[MrBenchley]

4. Thanks to the corrupt gun industry

he could walk into any gun show in the state and buy a gun without a background check...

[demsrule4life]

5. Any proof he bought this gun at a gunshow

or are you just guessing?

[MrBenchley]

6. Gee, dems, you mean

that you think he OUGHT to have been able to buy one there?

[demsrule4life]

8. "Thanks to the corrupt gun industry"

"he could walk into any gun show in the state and buy a gun without a background check."

You said it and I'am asking, did he or did'nt he?

[MrBenchley]

9. Yeah, Dems, I said it and I'm correct

Do you think homicidal lunatics ought to be able to stroll into gun shows and avoid background checks? Do you think that if this one particular homicidal lunatic did not do so, that somehow means other homicidal lunatics ought to be allowed to stroll into gun shows and avoid background checks while arming themselves?

[slackmaster]

7. Even if he bought the gun from a private individual

It was still illegal for the person with an RO against him to do so.

Maybe if the National Instant Check System was made available to private sellers it wouldn't be so easy for a prohibited person to get one, but the anti-gun loonies are too busy bleating and braying about "assault weapons" and the "corrupt gun industry" to bother doing anything about the private-party transfer loophole.

[MrBenchley]

10. Who are you trying to kid, slack....

Who is that pushing to close the loophole? It sure as hell isn't the RKBA crowd, which is fighting as hard as it canto keep it propped wide open.

Posts like yours show why the RKBA position is such a steaming pantload.

[slackmaster]

11. You need to shake that straw man up and down harder

And put a little more emphasis into your voice:

"My name is slackmaster! I am against all restrictions on guns and gun sales! There is no gun show loophole! There are no assault weapons!"

[MrBenchley]

12. It's not a strawman, slack....

Did you really think those "nobody can define a gun show" posts were fooling ANYONE?

[slackmaster]

13. Where did I ever say that?

Did you really think those "nobody can define a gun show" posts were fooling ANYONE?

You have misrepresented my position, and BTW that is yet another red herring.

I demand an immediate retraction.

[MrBenchley]

16. Just go over to the church rummage sale

the retraction is right next to all those guns on sale there.....

[slackmaster]

18. Appeal to Ridicule

n/t

[MrBenchley]

21. And well-deserved ridficule, at that

[slackmaster]

28. You deserve a little "ridficule" yourself, MrB

:toast:

[MrBenchley]

35. Bring it on, slack....

Maybe you can buy some at the church rummage sale

[Fescue4u]

15. defining a gun show sounds easy

In law, definitions are half the battle.

For an examples on definition problems, look to the assault weapons law, or even the laws against pornography.

Past efforts to define gun shows have dragged into it simple things, like 3 friends out hunting and decide to swap guns...due to a poorly written definitions, the spot in the woods suddenly becomes a "gun show"

[MrBenchley]

17. Not to the RKBA crowd

which spends half its time pretending there is no problem and the other half bitching that the solutions won't eliminate the problem.

"3 friends out hunting and decide to swap guns...due to a poorly written definitions, the spot in the woods suddenly becomes a "gun show""
I'm sure you can point to this case. In which state did it occur?

[slackmaster]

19. Straw Man

n/t

[MrBenchley]

22. Yes, that's what his argument turned out to be

[slackmaster]

23. Argumentum Ad Hominem Tu Quoque

I know you are, but what am I?

[MrBenchley]

25. You're an RKBA enthusiast

who clearly hasn't got even a dollop of content or an argument worth hearing.

[slackmaster]

30. Then kindly put me on Ignore

So I can continue to point out your fallacies and misrepresentations without bothering you.

[MrBenchley]

33. And miss the fun of pointing out what a load your posts are?

The "church rummage sale" post was wonderfully silly.....and the one where you pretended that it was the RKBA crowd fighting for background checks, hampered by the pro-gun-control folks....Dave Barry couldn't have wriiten anything half that absurd and funny....

[slackmaster]

43. What was silly about it?

Do you have an explanation of your position or are you just flinging baseless ridicule?

At what point would YOU say a gathering of people becomes a gun sale?

[MrBenchley]

45. What WASN'T?

Keep on pretending that there's some impenetrable occult mystery about what a gun show is...it's getting funnier and funnier.

[slackmaster]

46. Again you refuse to or are unable to explain yourself

What is your purpose in posting here, Benchley?

[MrBenchley]

48. What needs to be explained??

Your "church rummage sale" was a load of desperate hooey, as you try to spin away the FACT that this homicidal loony and even more dangerous characters can walk away from any gun show in Ohio with a gun but without facing a background check thanks to the corrupt gun industry.

[Fescue4u]

20. It was a federal law.

I think it was one that John McCain was sponsering.

Sorry, I don't have a cite as this is from memory.

But for discussion purposes, give it a try. Write paragraph that accurately defines a gun show, without ensnaring people who, according to common sense are not in a gun show.

IMO, its similiar to defining pornography, "you know it when you see it", but its virtually impossible to write a definiton for it.

[MrBenchley]

24. Then show us...

It isn't hard to find the laws John McCain is sponsoring...just go here and put in "McCain" in the text to be searched for...

http://thomas.loc.gov/

"But for discussion purposes, give it a try."
Gee, S. 890 defines it as a place where at least 75 guns are offered for sale. H.R., 260 narrows it to 50 guns or more offered for sale. Neither one would afffect your three yobbos in the woods.

It's hilarious to see the RKBA crowd trying to pretend that what a gun show is amounts to some cosmic mystery no mortal soul can fathom.

[Fescue4u]

36. Believe me, or don't believe me.

I don't care.

I've better things to do than invent storys, nor doing a bunch of research to back up a civil conversation (we're not making a western here :) )

Im asking you to take me at my word. If thats not good enough, I perfectly understand.

If the issue truly interests you, then look it up.

If it doesnt and you don't believe me, thats fine to.

[MrBenchley]

39. Which, do you suppose?

"I've better things to do than invent storys,"
Evidently not.

"If the issue truly interests you, then look it up."
And look at what we found out when we did.

[Fescue4u]

40. I don't care

Maybe it wasnt McCain. It doesnt matter, Im speaking the truth and the points remains.

[MrBenchley]

49. Fine with me....

"Im speaking the truth and the points remains"
Yeah, surrrrrrrrrre....and Charlton Heston really parted the Red Sea by himself.

[Fescue4u]

37. Fair enough.

So then HR 260 defines it as a place where 50 guns are offered for sale.

Where does a "place" end? Where does a "place" end. You and I know what common sense says, but the trick is define it legally and common sense (sadly) has no place in law.

Different Room in the convention center? The ticket counter? The parking lot? Across the street? Down the road? Across town? Different City?

See the problem? All you have to do is meet at the "gun show" agree to a price and go out to the parking lot and complete the transaction.

Or a gun show operator can rent an additional room in the convention center. Call it the "trading place", and limit the number of guns in the room to 50 or 75. The 51st or 76'th gun must wait outside the room until another leaves. Wanna trade a gun? you have to leave the "gun show" and go to the "trading place"

In the case of HR 260 and S890, it amounts to a "feel good" laws that is easily complied with, but has no effect.

[MrBenchley]

38. In other words

Your "three bozos in the woods" was a pantload.

"All you have to do is meet at the "gun show" agree to a price and go out to the parking lot and complete the transaction."
Funny, that's exactly the dodge the corrupt gun industry tried to legalize in Colorado.

[Fescue4u]

41. The "corrupt gun industry" tried to make it easier

to buy used guns?

Usually money hungry corrupt people are better businessmen than that. Used guns = 0 revenue.

If I was in the gun industry, I would be trying to eliminate used gun sales, in order to increase new gun sales.

Nonethess, you have pointed out that I am correct that these feel good laws are easily complied with to no effect. Thank you.

[MrBenchley]

47. Hahahahahahaha.....

Nice to see how silly the RKBA crowd can actually get.

[Fescue4u]

50. Please demonstrate how used guns

equate to revenue for a manufacturer building new guns.

This Id like to hear.

[MrBenchley]

52. You mean you think that

only gun manufacturers make up the gun industry...and that the distributors, licensed retailers, "kitchen table" dealers etc. DO NOT?

By the way, how many gun manufacturers also make ammunition?

[acerbic]

26. A-ha... pro-RKBA people eagerly want background checks with private sales

...but "anti-gun loonies" are hindering it?

Maybe if the National Instant Check System was made available to private sellers it wouldn't be so easy for a prohibited person to get one, but the anti-gun loonies

Congratulations!!! That was quite an achievement even in the scale of "pro-RKBA" posters here!

:crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly:

[MrBenchley]

27. Wasn't that a hoot?

<sarcasm>I know I'm ashamed of myself for keeping private sales safe from requisite background checks....</sarcasm>

Is it just me, or does it seem like the RKBA crowd hereabouts no longer even bothers with plausibility in their posts?

[slackmaster]

29. Go back and read what I actually wrote

Anti-gun people are too busy fighting the wrong battles to get anything useful accomplished.

[acerbic]

31. A-ha... you're blaming "anti-gun loonies" for not fighting hard enough

...against the pro-RKBA people who aggressively resist background checks with private sales and that's why it's the "anti-gun loonies'" fault that we don't get the background checks with private sales that the pro-RKBA people want. Ok, that makes sense...

:silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy:

[slackmaster]

32. No, that's not what I wrote either

Let's see if I can redirect this into a constructive conversation:

Can we all agree that one of the ways people who should not have guns (and aren't allowed to legally in many cases) get them is to buy them from private individuals who are not obligated to check for a criminal background of the buyer?

[acerbic]

34. Sure...

Can we all agree that one of the ways people who should not have guns (and aren't allowed to legally in many cases) get them is to buy them from private individuals who are not obligated to check for a criminal background of the buyer?

I certainly can agree.

[slackmaster]

42. Let's take another small step

Would you support making the National Instant Check system available for private (non-licensed) individuals who wish to sell personal firearms?

[Romulus]

44. no

because that would be closing the non-existant RKBA-lie-based "private sale loophole," NOT the "gun show loophole." :silly:

[Fescue4u]

51. stop it..

Im getting dizzy from all that spin :)

[Fescue4u]

14. wow, thats close to home.

The house I grew up in is just a half mile away from the edge of Sharonville, and I went to High school in Sharonville.

I think I may have went to school with the suspect, and if its he I think it is, he was a piece of trash even back then.