Some pertinent news from Field & Stream

[MrBenchley]

First, that hunters aren't particularly frightened by gun control...or frothing at the mouth to have assault rifles.

"15. Do you consider assault-style rifles to be legitimate sporting guns?
67% No
33% Yes

28. Do you think people who want to purchase rifles and shotguns should be given background checks before they are allowed to buy the guns?
66% Yes
34% No

35. Which one of the following factors do you think poses the biggest threat to hunting in America?
41% Shrinking wildlife habitat
25% Anti-gun legislation
22% Animal rights movement
5% Hunting laws and regulations
3% Wildlife disease
3% Poachers "

http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/hunting/article/0,13199,458217,00.html

Speaking of threats to hunting...it's a dying sport.

"The number of American hunters has been in a slow but steady decline for the last 20 years, and in the last five years alone fell from 14 million to 13 million, one of the steepest drops since the USFWS began keeping records in 1955. And as the general population has swollen to 290 million, hunting has become important to an ever shrinking minority. Today, only 6 percent of Americans 16 and older hunt.
More unsettling, the average age of hunters is increasing. Sixty-seven percent of all hunters are now over the age of 35. Only 14 percent are between 16 and 24—and just 4 percent are 16 and 17 years old. In the language of wildlife biology, the sport of hunting is having "recruitment failure"—a condition that, in the wild, ultimately leads to extinction. "

http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/hunting/article/0,13199,458090,00.html

[el_gato]

1. that's okay

when the shit hits the fan and you can't go
down to mickey dee's for a big mac
don't come to me

he he

[MrBenchley]

4. Say what?

More RKBA "logic", I guess. No wonder Mary Rosh seems like a scientist to these folks.

[1a2b3c]

31. I heard mary rosh was sent to prison

yeah, they put her in the cell next to the Million Mom activist that was put away for attempted murder with a firearm, Barbara Graham.


My joke of the day. I think i might just mention this every time i see Mary Rosh. :-)

[MrBenchley]

39. Go ahead.....

It shows what the RKBA crowd is really all about...be sure and add that crack about what a shame it was the 14 year old who tried to shoot himself missed....

Nothing like the RKBA crowd for gloating over tragedy.

[1a2b3c]

52. What tragedy?

The one where some poor kid got shot or the one where the gun controler went nuts and tried to shoot the poor kid? :-D Maybe next time i will use the Mary Rosh was sleeping around with Micheal Bellesiles, that one always gets 'em rollin.

[GOPFighter]

6. Yup

When the fan gets hit, all the gunners will be out there killing each other off. Meanwhile we'll steal their food while they're occupied!

:evilgrin:

[MrBenchley]

14. LOL!!

[izzie]

2. Well in Maine the land is closed to hunters more and more.

The laws on posting signs will drive you up a wall but they are doing it.Frankly When the state gives people over 65 free hunting and guns can shoot half a mile it is scary to live in the woods.

[MrBenchley]

5. A friend of mine bought a country house with woods

and posted her land "No hunting"... which has gotten her windows shot out a couple of times.

[Superfly]

7. I'm going to have to call bullshit on this one

Bullshit

[MrBenchley]

11. Fly, you can call what you like

It still happened.

[Superfly]

8. The reasons the land is being posted

is not only because people want to disallow hunting, but others are starting to realize that you can close off your acreage, charge $200/day to hunt, and some fat cat is going to pay it.

I've found that, even on posted land, if you are polite and courteous, leave your gun at the fence, and ask politely to hunt somebody's land, often times they will allow it.

I asked one old man up in Eastern Washington if I could hunt his farm, and he took me into his house, gave me a cup of coffee, and sent me on his way with his German shorthair (he couldn't get out to walk the dog as much anymore).

B

[GOPFighter]

3. Even though I support gun control...

I have few quarrels with serious hunters. I live in West Virginia part of the time and the growing deer population out here is ruining the environment...plus they are a real hazard on the roads. I've been impressed by the serious hunters I've met (emphasis on 'serious'). They love the outdoors and support protcting the environment. Most are members of the NRA but think many of the members are whacko.

[a2birdcage]

9. I can't access your link. Please post it again. Thx. (eom)

[MrBenchley]

12. Here you go

http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/hunting/article/0,13199,458090,00.html

http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/hunting/article/0,13199,458217,00.html

[greenwow]

10. Interesting

"15. Do you consider assault-style rifles to be legitimate sporting guns?
67% No
33% Yes"

Wow! Even two out of three people, that are so screwed in the head that they enjoy murdering animals, understands that assault weapons are not legitimate. Maybe there is hope for one day getting those things off of the streets. Probably not as long as the NRA is around, but there is hope.

[MrBenchley]

13. Worth noting that the survey

says a majority of hunters are NOT NRA members.

[demsrule4life]

16. Well no shit

Let's see about 40,000,000 gun owners and I don't know what the number of members are for the NRA but I would guess around 4 million, stands to reason the majority don't belong to the NRA.

[CO Liberal]

17. So That Means.......

....that nine out of ten hunters don't feel the need to join the Nuts Ruining Americal to protect their rights. Perhaps that shows how out-of-step Heston, LaPierre, Nugent, and the fellow morans are.

[MrBenchley]

23. Sure does...

[MrBenchley]

18. Let's see

The NRA is a bunch of far right wing lunatics...stands to reason most sane people don't want anything to do with them...

[Lefty48197]

65. I believe there are 80 million legal gun owners in the USA

yet only 4 million of them are NRA members. It's amazing how the NRA seems to think they speak for all gun owners, when they only make up 5% of the total.

[demsrule4life]

15. They will change their minds

after assault weapons get banned and "they" come after their scoped "sniper" rifles.

[MrBenchley]

19. Be sure and tell them that, dems...

It will add to the lies that the GOP tell....

[demsrule4life]

20. Why is it a lie?

I have seen it mentioned on plenty of antigun sites.

[CO Liberal]

22. There's a Lot of Crap On The John Birch Society's Web Site, Too

That doesn't make it true.

BTW, please provide a link to an "anti-gun" site that calls for hunting rifles to be confiscated.

[MrBenchley]

25. I suspect Dems is trying to pretend

that the .50 caliber sniper rifle is used by hunters.

You might recall on the old discussion board there was a whole thread devoted to that horseshit.

[demsrule4life]

26. No and it hasent been used by criminals either

But VPC is making sure people find out what you could use these rifles for.

[MrBenchley]

34. Who are you trying to kid?

<sarcasm>Yeah, its VPC that makes these guns a menace, and not the imbeciles peddling them at gun shows and in dealerships.</sarcasm>

[Withergyld]

38. Name one case

where a .50 BMG caliber weapon was USED to commit a crime

[demsrule4life]

41. Havent seen any dealerships

suggesting this guns can be used at long distance to shoot down aircraft or kill politicians.

[RoeBear]

78. I believe tthat they have been...

...used in a couple of crimes in the past. But they are as commonly used in crime as Bentley's are used as getaway cars.

[demsrule4life]

80. You could be right

Brady did a story about them, they mentioned several crimes that were very vague and of course they sort of forgot to list the endnote (#15) that these stories came from. I sent them an email several days ago asking if they could send me the source of these stories but havent heard anything back from them.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issuebriefs/50_cal.asp

[Superfly]

27. Actually, it is a very capable hunting caliber...

http://www.accuratereloading.com

Not only the .50 BMG, but the .577 T-Rex, .700 Nitro Express, etc.

The hype surrounding the .50 BMG is nothing more than scare tactics designed to elicit a negative public response.

[MrBenchley]

35. Hand us a BIG fucking laugh

[Superfly]

42. Naw...I think you are providing the laughs today

I provide evidence that 50 cal and larger calibers are used quite successfuly to take large and sometimes dangerous game.

The "BIG fucking laugh" was your assinine, childish response. But that was to be expected, right?

B

[MrBenchley]

44. See many 30-foot crocodiles in your neighborhood, fly?

Hand us another BIG FUCKING laugh.

[Romulus]

28. depends on how you talk it up

BTW, please provide a link to an "anti-gun" site that calls for hunting rifles to be confiscated.

AFAIK, no legitimate organization (other than maybe PETA) has come out and said they wanted to ban "hunting rifles" right now, but there is ongoing criticism and demonization of firearms that are capable of "accurate, long range" shots with "high powered" cartridges:

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,566785,00.html
"As a police officer, I know that the type of gun used to commit a crime can make all the difference. Certainly no one would argue that the (DC) snipers could have done the damage they did - shooting with deadly accuracy from hundreds of yards away - with a mere handgun. It took an assault rifle designed to inflict the maximum damage to a human body."

Great justification for banning "assault weapons" supposedly "designed and developed for a specific purpose - laying down a high volume of fire over a wide killing zone, also known as 'hosing down' an area.":eyes:

A round strong enough to kill a 150lb deer or 40lb coyote is "high-powered" enough to kill a human. Just ask a USMC sniper with his .308 bolt action rifle or .223 M16A2, a mule deer hunter in Montana with his .308 bolt-action rifle, or a rancher with his .223 Mini-14. When the AWB doesn't eliminate the threat of "accurate, long range shots with high powered rounds," what gets put next on the ban list? :think:

[MrBenchley]

24. Surrrrrrrrre...

[Wcross]

33. Reeealy?

I can mis-spell just as well as you can! I am special!!!

Now I know how you managed to accumulate so many posts!

BWAAAAA!

The number of posts add little to the validity of your arguements. A post like the above detracts.

Cry me a pantload of tears my dear!

[MrBenchley]

36. Hey cross....

You never commented on the racist Gun Owners of America....

Nice playmates you got, cross.....

[Wcross]

40. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I don't care. Larry Pratt doesn't speak for me on any other subject than gun rights. I don't recall any racist material on the web site or the newsletters they send out. If you have a specific link to back up the claim "racist Gun Owners of America...." I would sure like you to post it. Please, no biased sites. I trust the VPC or million moms like I trust televison. Not at all.

I believe in the entire bill of rights. You don't. I believe the entire bill of rights apply to every citizen of our country- regardless of where they live or who they are.

I have no racist guilt for my actions so far in this life. I resent the accusation, the mere fact that I am a firm believer in the second ammendment makes me somehow racist? What a joke.

By the way, are you ever going to prove your diagnosis of mass neurosis in gun owners Doctor Benchley? I get it, that was another one of your cheap attempts to demonize gun owners. Who can help but hate racist neurotics, right Doc? Save it for the soccer moms- did you really think it would fly with me?

[MrBenchley]

43. You're known by the company you keep

"If you have a specific link to back up the claim "racist Gun Owners of America...." I would sure like you to post it."
Been there, done that. The guy was too racist for Pat Buchanan...if that seems like a guy you think is speaking for you, it says volumes.

"I believe in the entire bill of rights. You don't."
No, I believe in what the Bill of Rights says...and you believe the lies John AshKKKroft tells about part of it.

"Save it for the soccer moms- did you really think it would fly with me? "
Hey....you pretended ^Ted Nugent wasn't raccist...amd now you're in denial about Larry Pratt. I'll stay here with the scooer moms, who at least don't pimp publicly for the scum of the earth like Pratt and AshKKKroft.

[Wcross]

55. Whaaaa!

Been there, done that. The guy was too racist for Pat Buchanan...

So you can't provide a link or proof for your statement? Typical.

"I believe in the entire bill of rights. You don't."
No, I believe in what the Bill of Rights says...and you believe the lies John AshKKKroft tells about part of it.

Please, I am 40 years old, I made up my mind long before asscroft made mention of his beliefs.

By the way, are you ever going to prove your diagnosis of mass neurosis in gun owners Doctor Benchley? I get it, that was another one of your cheap attempts to demonize gun owners. Still waiting Doc.

I am pimping for the second ammendment, you always bring these "evil" charactors into the fight.

The company you keep? Pol Pot ring a bell? Adolph Hitler was a fan of gun control. The Klan agreed gun control was a good idea for some folks. I guess you people are in "good" company.

[MrBenchley]

56. Cross...go peddle it to someone who cares

"The guy was too racist for Pat Buchanan...
So you can't provide a link or proof for your statement?"
For that statement? Tell us, what position did Pratt have to bail out of in 1996? Here's a hint.....AGAIN.

http://www.onepeoplesproject.com/buchanan.htm

"By the way, are you ever going to prove your diagnosis of mass neurosis in gun owners Doctor Benchley?"
I'll rest on the evidence on these pages. Who's that trying to rationalize arming blind people?

"I am pimping for the second ammendmentI am pimping for the second ammendment"
Nope...just the interpretation of it John Ashccroft and the scum of the earth are peddling.

"The company you keep? Pol Pot ring a bell? Adolph Hitler was a fan of gun control"
Not even close to true...but it's illuminating to see the sort of far right wing rubbish you peddle when faced with facts.

[Wcross]

59. Bullshit link

"Buchanan has an affinity for militia groups, and appointed Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America. as his campaign co-chairman in 1996. Pratt had to resign when it was discovered that he had on several occasions addressed militias and white supremacist groups."

So Pratt resigned when he discovered Buchanan addressed white supremacist groups? Does resigning make him a racist?
Try again Benchmister.


I guess I am the "scum of the earth" then. I don't have a very high opinion of you either. I know your type- it isn't really about the guns now is it? Its about controlling other people.

"The company you keep? Pol Pot ring a bell? Adolph Hitler was a fan of gun control"
Not even close to true...but it's illuminating to see the sort of far right wing rubbish you peddle when faced with facts.

Faced with facts? Deny these gun control victories occured Benchley. http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/fame.html
YOU might not like the source, but you don't blush when you cite the VPC.

I don't know about you, but personal freedom is very near and dear to my heart. I served my country and took an oath to support and defend the constitution. I am just continuing my sworn duty.

If you ever get your way, are you going to volunteer for the "gun collection squad"? I didn't think so.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

[MrBenchley]

69. Yes, you DID post a bullshit link

I say "it's illuminating to see the sort of far right wing rubbish you peddle when faced with facts."

And YOU post some amazing lunatic horseshit from the Religious Reich....

"Many people ask us what we think about the government's social security system. Well, the answer is...we don't! Why? Because it's nothing more than a Pyramid Scheme foisted upon the weak and ignorant who mistakenly believe that God's provisions are not sufficient. "

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/ss.html

"The Founding Fathers apostatized from the Godly civil covenants of their and our forefathers. When they rejected God, they also rejected God's law. "

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/constitution.html

"Many Christians are very patriotic, and support the Declaration of Independence and America's Revolutionary War for Independence. How can this be? The War for Independence was so plainly unbiblical. "

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/mourn.html

[Wcross]

84. Peddle it to someone who cares!

"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal." Attorney General Janet Reno

Don't play around the truth- just come right out and say it Benchy

[MrBenchley]

85. Keep on posting lies, cross

and I'll keep posting the truth.

[Wcross]

92. Truth according to Benchley?

Seems like a stretch doesn't it sport?

[MrBenchley]

94. Nope, just not RKBA LIES

"Seems like a stretch doesn't it sport?"
Nope...just the honest truth.....

Tell us, cross, when was Janet Reno supposed to have said this?

[1a2b3c]

108. December 10th 1993

Associated Press.

http://www.quotemeonit.com/renoj.html

http://quotes.telemanage.ca/quotes.nsf/QuotesByCatPerson!ReadForm&RestrictToCategory=Janet+Reno

[MrBenchley]

111. Wow,, and neither one

can say where she's supposed to have said this...

And the second site appears to be a site for right wing lunatics.

Amazing when you google this quote, what sort of right wing cesspools pop up...and none seems to have a link to an actual news story with the quote.

Helluva source...sure convinces me that it's a real quote....NOT.

[1a2b3c]

113. Of course its all right wing gun cites that pop up

Read the quote. I found a couple with a quick search that, to me, didnt seem to have political motivation at a glance. They looked like just collections of quotes from famous people. Its quite documented and i dont wanna go running around for a link that suits your needs because i really dont know what would suit your needs. What site do i need to find this quote on to make you consider it truthful? Associated Press? VPC? HCI?

[MrBenchley]

114. Yeah, no surprise that sane people

don't make up crap like that.

"Its quite documented"
by the scum of the earth.

"What site do i need to find this quote on to make you consider it truthful? Associated Press?"
Since that's where YOU claim it's from.....

[1a2b3c]

117. If they only had an archieves search on associated press website.

Dont think i didnt try there first.

[MrBenchley]

123. Or if only right wing loonies

didn't make up shit like that...

Hey, I have an idea...why not go up to GD and ask who else thinks Janet Reno is evil and wants to steal their guns? Maybe somebody there has a link .

[1a2b3c]

127. Or how bout i ask them

If they think the quote was real? Since thats what we are talking about.

[MrBenchley]

131. Go ahead....

I can always use another laugh...

Be sure and link to some of the cesspools you dredged it up from..

[demsrule4life]

99. I've noticed how often you imply that

gun owners, NRA the GOP are racist. I just wonder which party has the better voting record on civil rights. You care to answer that for me?

[MrBenchley]

100. Yeah, dems...

Democrats do by a mile...

And if you're looking for liberal versus conservative, it's liberals.

[demsrule4life]

103. Last night I put this link on GD on the civil rights act of 64

The Republican Party was not so badly split as the Democrats by the civil rights issue. Only one Republican senator participated in the filibuster against the bill. In fact, since 1933, Republicans had a more positive record on civil rights than the Democrats. In the twenty-six major civil rights votes since 1933, a majority of Democrats opposed civil rights legislation in over 80 % of the votes. By contrast, the Republican majority favored civil rights in over 96 % of the votes

I know it must be another RKBA fantasy.
http://www.congresslink.org/civil/essay.html

[Paladin]

104. I Guess The Republicans' Pristine Civil Rights Record.....

....accounts for 90% of Afro-Americans voting Democratic these days.

The constant trashing of Democrats/pimping for Republicans by RKBA militants in this forum is really getting tiresome. I trust the moderators are keeping close watch on this.....

[BullDozer]

106. No immunity

I'm sorry but that letter D after a name identifying them as a Democrat doesn't make anyone immune to criticism.

Many Democrats in office have their heads up their respective butts on this issue.

No one has to march 100% in lock step with everything that the party does in order to stay inside the tent. How ironic that you use the word militant when you subtly imply that anything less than 100% agreement is cause for banning.

[Paladin]

107. There Is A Big Difference.......

...between marching "100% in lockstep" with party positions and the kind of concentrated, unrelenting, well-orchestrated party trashing that you RKBA types are engaging in. If I were you, I'd savor the few positive developments your side has enjoyed recently. Why? Because the right-wing Republican forces that have made those victories possible are currently self-destructing, big time.

And a little note for you lurkers who enjoy squealing about some of the less-than-admirable historical aspects of the Democratic Party: Just remember that the Republican Party was once the party of Abraham Lincoln and Ike Eisenhower. Now it's the party of Dubya, Cheney, John Ashcroft, and Newt Gingrich, among other lower forms of life. Put the safeties on, back away from the reloading bench, put the latest issue of "American Rifleman" down, and consider the kind of company you're keeping......

[demsrule4life]

134. Just wondering if you are the same Paladin

that posts on that progun forum, 1911.com all the time?

[Paladin]

135. Nope, That's Someone Else

n/t

[demsrule4life]

136. Just wondering

The two of you would get along though. :) Thanks for the reply.

[MrBenchley]

115. Amazing, isn't it?

The RKBA crowd isn't even particularly interested in plausibly posing as Democrats any more.

[MrBenchley]

112. Yeah?

I don't feel like sifting through all of GD...why don't you show us the link so that I can see all the responses where sane people mentioned "the Southern strategy" to you.

So tell us, you pimp for the NRA, you think Republicans are more for civil rights than Democrats.....why EXACTLY are you a Democrat, since you hate the party so much?

[Upfront]

21. It Should Be Noted

that F&S ripped AWOL a new one over his environmental record in the same issue. I mean they want a change in the Whitehouse. This is comparable to the NRA saying the Democrats are not so bad after all. The sheep are waking up folks.

[Lefty48197]

67. It sounds like Field and Stream represents the 75 million gun owners

who don't belong to the NRA.

[happyslug]

29. Sounds about right

The 1920 Census is the first census where more people lived in Urban Area than rural areas. Since that time even more people have moved. Hunting is a rural sport, rural people first start doing it with their family and friends when there are teenagers. When a person moves from a rural to an urban setting he breaks many of his bonds of family and friends, but most people try to save them, and the best time for such rural transplants has been hunting season. That is the time people go back to where they grew up and go hunting with their boyhood friends.

Now, such transplants bring along their teen children and introduce them to their family and friends and their friend's family. Generally friendship develops and the hunting tradition survive another generation. Sooner or later you get to a situation where grandpa dies (he was the one who grew up on the farm). Dad may keep hunting to be with his friends he developed as he hunted with his father, but Dad's son is three generation away from the farm. His connection was with his father and grandfather NOT with the old family farm. He may have interests in hunting, but with his father and grandfather more than his father and grandfather's friends.

Thus in the third or fourth generation off the farm a family's hunting tradition tends to die out. This is accelerated if Dad's Friends also move out so while the third generation know each other, none of the third generation have any connection to the farm except through their parents and grandparents.

Some people hold on for four or five generation but the above pattern tends to hold, i.e. if you are the grandchild of the person who left the farm you may hunt as a youngster but as your parents die off you tend to quit for your children tend to have other interests.

1920 Generation I leaves the farm, establishes a urban family, Generation comes of age and goes hunting with his father..

1940 - Generation II establishes his home (some disruption for WWII but we will ignore that for this paper). He goes with Generation I and his son Generation III.

1960 - Generation I is now at least 60 years of age, Generation 1 is 40, Generation III is 20 with Generation IV on the way. By the time Generation IV starts to hunt Generation I is over 70 years of age. All four may go together but only for a few years.

1980 - Generation I is now dead. Generation II is 60, Generation II is 40 and Generation IV is 20 with Generation V not coming of hunting age till the 1990s. The same pattern as the 1960 generation.

2000 - Generation II is now dead, Generation III will die within 20 years, Generation IV and V if hunting have lost all connection with the people of Generation I.

Thus the urbanization of the US has lead to a decrease in hunting and I see no way to stop the decrease (except for a return to a higher rural population which I expect once Oil production has peaked and oil prices goes through the roof). Generation I left the farm do to increase use of tractors and thus the decrease need for manual labor. With gasoline prices going through the roof, manual labor, including horse labor, will make a come back as the only way to keep the usage of oil down. This will lead to an increase in rural population and an increase in hunting. I do not see the increase for a full generation AFTER prices have gone through the roof, but it will happen.

[Wcross]

30. I wouldn't call them sporting rifles either

They are far from sporting rifles. They are Military style rifles, designed for fast and (depending on the type) accurate fire. Last time I checked, there was no law that a firearm has to have a sporting purpose. I enjoy shooting them, I have military training with the weapons and I see them as a very effective weapon when faced with multiple criminal types. Did I mention having to approach armed poachers every once in a while? Being an ex-Marine, I understand the benefits of superior firepower. That is reason enough for me to advocate sunset of the ban. Criminal misuse of such weapons is a law enforcement matter.

Murder is already against the law. Is another law going to help? Do you think the weapons already in criminal hands will just disappear? Do you really believe that a criminal is going to think "gee, I ought to leave my illegal "assualt weapon" at home before I go out and rape/murder some co-eds? Or, "gee, I have to do a drive by shooting tonight, better take my sporting rifle along because this ak is illegal"?

Guns are illegal in D.C., yet homocides are quite high there. Have you ever heard of Cocaine? The cocaine has to be smuggled into the U.S. due to the fact it is impossible to cultivate in this country. Dogs can be trained to sniff for cocaine, how will they sniff for metal in a cargo container? There is plenty of cocaine for sale in every city. What makes you think any other banned item will be less available?

[RoeBear]

32. You thought you really had something here, didn't you?

"15. Do you consider assault-style rifles to be legitimate sporting guns?
67% No
33% Yes

What do you think the no votes are saying? They are saying that assault style rifles are not sporting for the purpose of hunting. It says nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, about whether they are for or against the ownership of assault style weapons.

[MrBenchley]

37. Wishful thinking....

"It says nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, about whether they are for or against the ownership of assault style weapons."
You keep telling yourself that, roe.

[demsrule4life]

45. If hunters comprise only 35% of gun owners

what does this poll really prove?

[MrBenchley]

47. It proves

how phony the "gun rights" issue really is...

[demsrule4life]

49. not an answer

35% percent does not speak for all.

[demsrule4life]

50. Nope Iam wrong

67% No
33% Yes
If hunters comprise 35% of gun owners, and with the numbers in this poll guess it is closer to 18% of gun owners say assault rifles have no sporting purpose. Hardly a majority.

[MrBenchley]

51. Gee, dems...

it's the RKBA crowd always sniveling on here about how important it is that Democrats don't alienate hunters....but I guess from this new tack of yours that was just more hooey. Who cares what they think, eh, dems?

[RoeBear]

46. One more time...

It says nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, about whether they are for or against the ownership of assault style weapons.


It's a sporting magazine, hunting is a sport, hunters are known for wanting to pursue game in a sporting manner (this from a non hunter).
The question might as well be 'Do you consider it sporting to shoot a deer with an AK-47 with a banana clip?'. Neither question tells you what they think of the assault weapon ban. Get it? (probably not)

[MrBenchley]

48. And one more time

you keep telling yourself that, and I'll have a REALLY BIG laugh whiel you do.

[RoeBear]

53. I showed you mine...

...now you show me yours. Your version of the question, that is, and what it means.

[MrBenchley]

54. Been there, done that...

Try the initial post.

[RoeBear]

57. You mean this!?

"First, that hunters aren't particularly frightened by gun control...or frothing at the mouth to have assault rifles."

15. Do you consider assault-style rifles to be legitimate sporting guns?
67% No
33% Yes

So you think question 15 is like asking a hunter:

"are you frightened of gun control as it pertains to assault weapons?"

[MrBenchley]

58. Roe, go snivel about it to someone who cares...

[RoeBear]

60. I knew I could count on you...

...to avoid the question.

[Wcross]

61. Hey RoeBear!

Some people HAVE to baffle people with bullshit because they can't impress them with brilliance. This guy is a peculiar democrat. Divide democrats further by keeping the proven loser of an issue in the limelight. I am curious as to why this is a good strategy?

104 million people voted in the last election. 80 million people own guns. You do the math. Sure, we dont need gun owners votes, screw em!

[RoeBear]

62. The thing he doesn't understand is...

...that some times elections are won by a few swing voters. Many elections are relatively close in the polls prior to election day, 51% to 49% for example.

If NOW can convince a relatively small number of people that they must get out and vote to protect legal abortions, the Democratic candidate will be likely to win.

OTOH- If the NRA can fire up it's core (and they don't just contact their own members) over something as ridiculous as Benchley's ammo tax scheme the anti-gun candidate is likely to lose. And trust me; you don't want to be on the receiving side of the NRA's shit storm if you're the one promoting a ridiculous ammo tax. The only place something like that might stand a chance is New Jersey. But NJ is pretty much a lost cause anyway.

[BullDozer]

68. Benchley has even told us he doesn't get it

When asked "how many Democratic swing voters do you think turn away from a Democratic Candidate because he is too antigun?"

His answer was,
"Maybe a few hundred in the entire country"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2103&forum=DCForumID32#139

Post #139


He would also support a ban all guns platform. Same thread post #147

"Well hells bells the party should just switch to a ban them all platform then and have a clear cut difference with the GOP on the issue then."
Sounds good to me.

[MrBenchley]

72. Gee, dozer, I DO get it...

I know that when Democrats run as Republiccan wanna-bes, the lose.

[Lefty48197]

66. Speaking of strategies

the old "you're gonna drive gun owners away from our Democratic party" argument is getting really old. OOOOoollllllddddd.

[MrBenchley]

75. What makes it especially funny

is that every time the RKBA crowd produces some EVIDENCE that gun control is alienating voters, the "Democratic experts" who say so are all either Republicans or asswipes from the NRA.

[RoeBear]

79. Since you get to call "the RKBA crowd" ...

..."either Republicans or asswipes from the NRA".

Can I call the anti-gun crowd idiots and morons from the Brady Bunch?

Just asking.

Ok, here goes. I think all anti-gun people are idiots and morons from the Brady Bunch.

Gee, that felt good.

[MrBenchley]

81. It's not like accuracy seems to be any concern

of the RKBA crowd.

"every time the RKBA crowd produces some EVIDENCE that gun control is alienating voters, the "Democratic experts" who say so are all either Republicans or asswipes from the NRA."

The evidence:
"34. And who gets quoted saying so, roe?
"U.S. Rep. Zach Wamp, R-Tenn., boiled the Gore loss down to one word."
"National Rifle Association spokesman Bill Powers said "
By the way, I've met Zach Wamp...and if he was any dumber rainwater would puddle in the top of his skull.
Funny how the actual Democrats say something entirely different.
"Democrats say the Gore national campaign failed to focus enough on Tennessee." "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=9898#10123

"18. Very funny...
Here's the core of an article supposedly telling us what Democrats think.....
"says James Jay Baker, legislative director of the National Rifle Association."
"says Rep. Bob Barr, R-Ga., who was just elected to a second 3-year term on the NRA board."
"In a letter written to Baker in May, Ashcroft said "
"Republican pollster Bill McInturff asks." "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=8562&mesg_id=8601&page=

[Wcross]

97. Sure, you keep telling yourself that.

Maybe President Gore will sign stronger gun control laws with the aid of the Democratic Majority in the house and senate.


Wake up and smell the coffee son, the elections are too close to base your platform on such a devisive issue.

I don't think you really care as much about the party as you do about silly assed gun control schemes.

Of course, I don't claim to be as smart as you claim to be. You really have an overinflated opinion of yourself Benchy, in my ignorant mind.

[1a2b3c]

110. Here is a site if you havent read it yet

This guy gives a no bullshit reply to why Gore lost in 2004 http://www.perkel.com/politics/gore/

[MrBenchley]

116. Too too funny.....not word one about guns

Not a fucking word on that entire page about guns...the word "gun" isn't even there.

[MrBenchley]

71. Gee, cross, at least I AM a Democrat

I'm not posting crap on here from the far fringe of the religious reich...or pimping for Larry Prratt, a guy too racist for even Pat Buchanan.

Some more gibberish from the site YOU linked to:

"The Declaration of Independence (published July 4, 1776) and the new Constitution (written a few years later) were part of America's repudiation of Biblical authority. The Constitution never mentions "God". The Declaration, which never mentions Jesus Christ, focuses on "Independence" and "rights," and by losing sight of the Suffering Servant, helped change the official character of the nation from the evangelical to the materialistic, and thus helped create the selfish, violent nation in which we now live. "

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/mourn.html

[Wcross]

86. Are you?

You seem bound and determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of Victory in the next election.
Do you really think I would be wasting my time arguing with a person so stuck on gun control if I didn't wish to see a Democrat in the white house? If I were wanting to see another four years of Bush, I would be on here acting like a total anti-gun lunatic- shooting down the second ammendment, scoffing at peoples rights, and being a general pain in the ass.

You are either one of the "true believers" or you are posing as a "concerned democrat" to further divide and conquer. Why don't you ask Gore why he lost Tennesse, West Virginia and Arkansas?

If you refuse to believe someone would actually vote for gun rights over all else you don't know many gun owners. I wouldn't vote for anyone that advocated gun registration or any other attempt to take away my second ammendment right to keep and bear arms. I wouldn't vote for anyone who advocated taking away ANY of my rights under the bill of rights.

[MrBenchley]

90. Yeah, I am...

"Do you really think I would be wasting my time arguing with a person so stuck on gun control if I didn't wish to see a Democrat in the white house?"
In a word, yes. Why do you think the demented asswipes who ARE "posing as a concerned democrat" at highroadrage.com keep sneaking back over here nine and ten times?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33227&highlight=%2ADemocratic+Underground%2A

"If I were wanting to see another four years of Bush, I would be on here acting like a total anti-gun lunatic"
Why? There's nothing at all anti-gun about this unnelected drunk. There's never been such a champion of the bogus "gun rights" position in the White House....hell, the NRA boasted they'd be working right out of the Oval Office. It's one of the scummiest thinngs about pResident Turd.

"Why don't you ask Gore why he lost Tennesse, West Virginia and Arkansas? "
We been there and done that, cross. Remember? The Gore campaign said it was because he should have spent more time courting voters there....and the idiots who said it was "guns guns guns guns guns" were the GOP's Zach Wamp and some shitheel from the NRA.

"If you refuse to believe someone would actually vote for gun rights over all else you don't know many gun owners."
Hell, I KNOW the sort of asswipes who would vote for gun rights above all else...and they're right wing pieces of shit whose only complaint about the Republican party is that they ought to be MORE racist and idiotic to suit their personal tastes.

YOU are posting some of the craziest right wing crap I've ever seen. YOU are telling lies about any Democrat anybody's ever heard of. YOU are pimping for Larry Pratt, a guy so racist even Pat Buchanan bailed out on him.

[Wcross]

93. I have my doubts

Cry me a river!

[MrBenchley]

95. Yeah, but consider the source....

YOU are the guy who's pimping for a guy too racist for Pat Buchanan...and posting gibberish from some religious reich lunatic.

[Wcross]

96. Sorry Benchy

You are the guy that is such an extremist that I can't even put you on the ignore list because I chuckle every time I read your posts. I tell you what, you are special to me, I actualy look forward to looking at your one liners.
Please don't misunderstand me. I find NO truth in your rhetoric- I find humor.

Lets see if the democratic canidate pushes gun control or puts it on the back burner OK? I guess that will tell us everything we need to know.

[MrBenchley]

101. Not even close to trrue, cross...

I'm not the one here peddling religious reich lies or pimping for Pat Buchanan's racist pal.

[BullDozer]

98. No!

2. Treat people with respect. Don't be rude or bigoted. Discuss the message, not the messenger.

Not "Yeah, but consider the source...."

[MrBenchley]

102. Another source to consider carefully

"Don't be rude or bigoted."
You mean like pretending Democrats have ties to Pol Pot and Hitler? You mean like pimping for Pat Buchanan's racist campaign manager?

[Wcross]

105. Time to reread the post Benchy! You are confused again.

Faced with facts? Deny these gun control victories occured Benchley. http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/fame.html
YOU might not like the source, but you don't blush when you cite the VPC.

In no way does my post pretend that the democrats have ties to Pol Pot or Hitler. The implication was that massive gun confiscation has often preceded genocide.

I do compare those like YOU with Pol Pot. Of course Sarah Brady would also be included. Gun control fanatics such as yourself should be proud of your history! Don't be ashamed by the success you enjoyed in Cambodia and Rawanda! Disarming people so they can be slaughtered might be considered an honorable thing to do by some people. Show pride in your historical success boy!

Your pathetic attempt to pretend that you can't be a democrat and still believe in gun rights is foolish.

The way you play the race card and the "GOP lover" accusations shows me you have a very weak arguement. Why would you have to supplement it if you had a legitimate point on gun control alone.

[MrBenchley]

118. Go peddle it too some right wing nuts, cross...

Matybe they'll be stupid enough to believe it.

"The way you play the race card and the "GOP lover" accusations shows me you have a very weak arguement. "
Does it? I'll invite anyone who thinnks so to click on the rest of the rubbish on the right wing cesspool you linked to.

[Wcross]

121. Snivel to some soccer moms

You can cry to someone who cares. Your lame attempts to change the topic away from gun control shows either a real weak arguement or a real weak mind.

"Matybe they'll be stupid enough to believe it."

"Matybe" they will you freakin genius. "Matybe" they will.

[MrBenchley]

124. Gee, cross, I'm not the one posting right wing horseshit

or pimping for Larry Pratt.

[Wcross]

125. Plain old middle of the road horseshit is what you post benchy nt

[MrBenchley]

126. Tell it to Larry Pratt

or some other racist scumbag, Cross...

[1a2b3c]

109. Hey i remember MicroBalrog

He got booted? He is still claiming to be a liberal. Wonder if he got the boot from flame wars down here? Someone should have told him that the "true" liberals dont own guns.

[MrBenchley]

119. Sorry, bubba

He couldn't fool anyone here into thinking he was a liberal...

[1a2b3c]

120. So he is just saying it over there

To try and trick a group of right wingers(most of them) into thinking he is a liberal. Sell that steamy pile of shit to the person who tombstoned him, cause as you know, i aint buying any steaming pile of shit.

[MrBenchley]

122. Gee, bubba, why do you think he isn't saying it HERE?

"Sell that steamy pile of shit to the person who tombstoned him"
Gee, what a shame you hate DU so much. However, nobody's keeping you here.

[1a2b3c]

128. Mr fantasy world

Yep i hate DU. Explains why ive been posting here on a daily basis for almost a year.

[MrBenchley]

132. You're the one bitching

about that right wing asswipe getting tombstoned.

[idadem]

63. What a horrible...

...question they posed as well!

'15. Do you consider assault-style rifles to be legitimate sporting guns?'

What is an 'assault-style rifle?'
There is no assault-style rifle ban! There IS an assault weapon ban which gives specific (though poorly written) definitions to the term.

'Assault-style rifle,' not being a legal term, has as many definitions as there are respondents. Most of these 'sportsmen' do not even know what assault weapons are if they were asked about them.
The word 'sporting' is as clear as mud too. 'Legitimate?' What does that mean?

Bad question. Bad conclusion. Bad answers. Bad information. Bad AW legislation verbage.

[RoeBear]

64. Bad question. Bad conclusion. Bad answers. Bad information...

...Bad AW legislation verbage.
And yet Benchley claims it as a victory. Hate to see what a loss would be to him. Ooops...we already saw it. Bushes victory in 2000 because of the likes of his kind.

[MrBenchley]

74. Hahahahahahaha...

That's right, roe. Field & Stream doesn't know what they're talking about...but a handful of extremists DO..

[MrBenchley]

73. Of all the RKBA hooey the "enthusiasts" spew

this "there is no such thing as an assault weapon" crap is perhaps the silliest.

[MrBenchley]

70. Roe, I knew it was a horseshit question

[KS_44]

76. Hunters are clueless and myopic.

Do you consider assault-style rifles to be legitimate sporting guns?
67% No
33% Yes

Hunters are not very familiar with assault type weapons. They probably form opinions based on anti-rkba horseshit peddled by vpc and the media. Their view of assault type weapons are things like AR15s, Ak-47s, and a slew of other firearms including things like MAC-10s and TEC-9s. This view is a commonplace, and a somwhat realistic view of the array of assault style firearms. The reality is that the hunting populace beleives assault weapons are innacurate bullet hoses unsuitible for gracing a deer stand(courtesty the vpc and gun grabbers). This is simply not true. Many "assault weapons" make excellent deer rifles. For simplicitys sake, lets overlook the pistols, as they really cant be used for hunting, and I dont count them as assault rifles; my focus.

Most hunters are traditionalists. For the most part hunters use a bolt action rifle. They have a rather myopic view of what rifle is appropriate for hunting, for them a semi-automatic rifle is sacrelage.
If one was to tell them that an AR15 is a good hunting rifle, they would spout on and on about how you dont need thirty rounds to kill a deer, how it will be blown apart, how innacurate they are... ect. ect.

Well, unfortunatly, they would be wrong. AR15s are an extremely accurate rifle, and fires a very common deer hunting round, the .223.
While it would be odd to spot a man in a stand with an AR15, it is perfectly legal, and a very good rifle to hunt deer with. I myself have taken a deer with an AR15. Their are many "assault style" weapons that make excellent hunting rifles, especially the FAL or G3.
The FAL and G3 shoot a very, very popular hunting cartridge, the .308
Both rifles have a long sight radius to improve the marksmans accuracy, and the G3s barrel is free floated... improving harmonics and increasing the guns accuracy. A dragunov would also be an excellent deer rifle, firing the potent 7.62x54r. This cartridge is a very good deer cailiber, even though its comming out of an scary russian weapon. In fact, several local arms manufacturers are starting to offer FALS in hunting configurations.

Below: FALS

Marketed as hunters series:


Below: AR15 very capable of taking a deer.


Below: The HK G3


Below: The dragunov


Several "Assault rifles" make excellent hunting rifles.
On top of this, assault rifles are robust, reliable, and ergonomic.
They make excellent home defense weapons (especially rifles that fire .223, as it fragments in drywall limiting the potential of killing others in another room) and also make very good plinking rifles and target guns. This is why I only own assault rifles. If I want to hunt elk up north, I might need something bigger than an AR15... maybe a FAL. =)

Now their are a number of other assault style weapons that are not very good for hunting. The AK-47, while firing a caliber capable of taking a deer (in essence, a russian 30-30) it is somewhat innacurate, thus limiting its potential. Mac-10s of course are pistols, and not good for hunting. The size of the rifles magazine doesn't matter, its all where the bullet goes. Again, I restate my thesis: Many assault style RIFLES make excellent sporting firearms. I would go so far as to say hunting FALS and varmint AR15s run circles around similarly chambered bolt action rifles.

Mr bently, I dont want to start arguing again, but the general populace lacks the nomenclature of these assault weapons to get past all the clouds of smoke pumped out by the anti gunners. Truth of the matter is, assault rifles are a very usefull style of rifles.
Hence, instead of buying a bolt action deer rifle, a .22 for cheap plinking, and an open sighted target rifle, I have all that rolled into *one* gun.

SUVs are to vehicles as AWs are to guns.

SUV = can ferry around the kids, can haul trailers, can go off road, and generally can do a little bit of everything.

AWs = can be used for target practice, can kill game animals, can defend the home, are good at plinking, and generally do everything well. (militarty surpluss ammo is cheap)

AWs = the pinnacle of weapon design.

[MrBenchley]

82. So I guess all these RKBA claims that Democrats

ought to worry about what hunters think were just so much horseshit....lkike pretty much everything the RKBA crowd says here.

[RoeBear]

77. How come you recognize horseshit so easily?

Are you involved with it's manufacture?

[MrBenchley]

83. The RKBA crowd peddles nothing BUT horseshit, roe....

AS this thread clearly shows....

[a2birdcage]

87. I've been on........

this board for only two days and already I know that everything this guy says or will say is horseshit.

[demsrule4life]

88. Kind of slow arent you? :)

[a2birdcage]

89. Not so much slow..............

but more like complete disbelief. Had to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[MrBenchley]

91. No, take it from me...slow

is the perfect word for you.

After all, you're the one angrily insisting that I have to tell you what a vote in Congress against armor-piercing ammunition that went about 420-1 (Deadheart Dick Cheney being the losing side) has to do with armor-piercing ammuntion being ILLEGAL.

Gee, do you suppose they were voting on that law? Or do you think it was just a way for them to tease Dick Cheney?

[KS_44]

129. illegal... what a joke. Purchased some yesterday.

I have armor peircing ammunition.

Since most anti-rkba are not grounded in reality, I wouldnt expect them to know that most centerfire rifle ammunition cuts through kevlar like butter. Armor peircing bullets my ass, my box of wally world 40 round value pack .223 is armor piercing and totally legal.

I better keep quiet though, I wouldnt want them to become informed.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

133. Informed?

Hahahahahahahahaha.......

"I wouldnt expect them to know that most centerfire rifle ammunition cuts through kevlar like butter. Armor peircing bullets my ass, my box of wally world 40 round value pack .223 is armor piercing and totally legal."
Gee, there's a good argument against gun control...amazing I hadn't thought of it. We shouldn't have gun control because any garden-varriety loony can kill cops....

I guess that's RKBA "logic."

[KS_44]

137. Whoah nelly...

I guess we should be more like the antis and ban things that make us feel warm and fuzzy inside. Lets ban nonexistant cop killer bullets! Hooray!!

Banning cop killer bullets, what a load of crap.


I declare a ban on bad driving... aaahhh I feel better already.

[MrBenchley]

138. Too too funny

Go pimp for Dick Cheney to someone who gives a crap.

[KS_44]

139. Typical response

Way to go!

[MrBenchley]

140. All the response that was deserved