Racists...usefull idiots

[RoeBear]

I've been told that the people who support the 2nd amendment are made up mostly of racists. Well I'd like to thank these usefull idiots for supplying me with the right to legally carry a concealed weapon here in Michigan.

If what I'm told is true I'm surprised that they would want to help me get a carry permit but I appreciate their help just the same.

Maybe they think that blacks will just carry guns regardless of the law and that might be true to an extent. Young black gang bangers who have been forgotten by society surely do carry without benefit of a license. But I'm an honest, older, less able to protect myself black male.

I've been verbally assaulted by racists before and I appreciate the right to be able to carry concealed in case I am ever physically assaulted by them. Thanks Racists!

Something else I'd like to thank them for is there plan to move to New Hampshire and start a 'perfect' society.

[Lefty48197]

1. I think the racist gun nuts are moving to Idaho

at least that's what I've heard.

[Salviati]

2. What do you mean moving?

aren't they already there?

(apologies to all DU'ers from Idaho, it's a beautiful state, but how can you resist a setup like that...)

[MrBenchley]

3. Not nearly as useful

as the idiots who support their gun rights idiocy and give them credibility and a cover to hide behind.

"Maybe they think that blacks will just carry guns"
Or maybe they want a handful of idiotic black people with pistol permits cheering for them to point to, so they can say "See, we're not really racist" as they spread their poison.

"Thanks Racists!"
I'm sure the feeling is reciprocated.

[Muddleoftheroad]

6. Spoken like someone who wasn't born black

As an African-American male, I moved out of D.C. because of the schools and the crime and the fact that I wasn't allowed to defend myself.

I now live in Virginia, where I am allowed (hell, some say encouraged) to arm myself. Even though I live in rural VA with some fairly redneck elements, I feel very safe because I own a gun. It's a fact I have shared with my neighbors as well, just in case anyone wants to give me any trouble.

[Romulus]

7. you got that right

The second part of your post expressed how I felt about being a free person when I lived in the Commonwealth.

Unfortunately, fate has led me to MD, where there are both racist thugs and gang member thugs, that refuses to objectively recognize my right to effective self-defense - leaving that to the whim of some member of the racially profiling MD State Police. At least I can carry OC spray and a folding knife here, unlike DC. :eyes:

On edit: read the complaint in the link, especially the use of the seat-belt-law as a pretext for stopping motorists.

[1a2b3c]

31. They use the seat belt law for profiling in all states

Not just racial profiling either. They do at times go after us younger long haired hippies. :-)

[good old bill]

43. There are many types of profiling!

Profiling is an unfortunate yet usefull law enforcement tool. Although it is unlawfull to do so, Police Officers all over the world profile hippies, Blacks, whites, hispanics, Asians, rich, poor, you name it, I can profile a stop situation for it. Does that make it right? No. However, I must say that tons of unlawfull substances have been removed from the streets, hundreds of home invasions have been prevented and the lives of countless black, white, asian, hispanic, rich, and poor people have been protected because of this unlawfull practice.

[MrBenchley]

14. No, spoken like somebody

who knows what a few idiots like Ward "Segregation isn't racism" Connerly can do.

And for the record, surveys show that blacks are more likely than whites to support gun control...

But then YOU don't know whether I am black or white or Oriental....

[Muddleoftheroad]

26. Which is why I said "like"

You may or may not be black.

Frankly, I don't much care either way. In my experience, fears more my safety and those in my life led me OUT of DC into an area where I can protect myself.

[iverglas]

4. here we go ... again

This post/thread is nothing but a response to something posted in the author's existing post/thread on firearms and race. There was absolutely no need for a new thread on the subject; it introduces no new subject and no new information. What starting a new thread in response to something said in an existing thread does do, of course, is deny readers any context for the comments made in in the new one.

Might I suggest that the Civil Rights etc. forum not be made a branch plant of the gun dungeon? Firearms issues are just one element (and, IMO of course, one very insignificant element, if it even is an element) of the vast area of equality rights. The pointless proliferation of threads saying the same damned thing is hardly a fruitful use of space. And fragmenting a discussion by starting up new threads about old ones does nothing to contribute to coherency and fruitful dialogue.

I submit that it would be reasonable for those wanting to discuss firearms issues, as they allegedly pertain to equality rights, not to clutter up this forum in this way. Surely anyone interested in engaging in that discussion in this forum can be expected to be capable of finding the appropriate thread, while it should be obvious that flinging up new threads isn't really going to generate interest if there is none.

.

[MrBenchley]

5. On the bright side...

if you or I had started a thread pointing out that the RKBA crowd was made up of racists and idiots, it would have been shut down instantly. Instead, this one has decorated two different folders...

Never underestimate the RKBA crowd's penchant for inadvertant hilarity.

[Spoonman]

8. Yea surrrrrrre

In case you are still having problems reading between the lines, Let me clue you in.

The post stated that "I've been told that the people who support the 2nd amendment are made up mostly of racists.".

I do believe that you are included in that group of "people", as demonstrated by the hundreds of posts by yourself that make that insinuation!

[MrBenchley]

10. Gee, spoon, there's no insinuation made

nor is one necessary. I can say and back up the FACT that malignantly racist shits like Larry Pratt, Ted Nugent, and Bob Barr make up the actual LEADERSHIP of the RKBA crowd.

The KKK is even willing to forego their customary racism to get guns in the sweaty shaky hands of ALL Americans...

"The so-called gun control bill enacted by the government is nothing but anti-self defense laws designed to disarm law abiding citizens. The right to own guns as guaranteed by the 2nd amendment to the United States Constitution must be protected. Gun ownership is NOT a privilege, it’s a CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT!!! The Texas Knights work to completely restore the right of all law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms."

http://www.texaskkk.com/platform.htm

Don't see them being racist there, do you? Seems like they're more than willing to adopt useful idiots who put their guns above decency.

[1a2b3c]

32. and i can back up

the fact that racist have been writing gun control laws since slaves were brought here. But i get tired of arguing with you so i wont.

[MrBenchley]

34. Who are you trying to kid?

You've tried posting that crap a bunch of times, and all it did was show how dishonest the RKBA crowd is.

[1a2b3c]

37. It did?

Jeez, links to actual racist laws and amendments is dishonest?

[MrBenchley]

39. It did...

It was stale tired bullshit when you dredged it up LAST month....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=8533&mesg_id=8533

[Wcross]

30. Don't forget were all neurotic too!

I've been told I am a racist and neurotic. Oh, I am also in love with some woman named "mary Rosh" or something. These three facts were explained to me, I guess I have been living in denial for years now!

All I thought I was doing was owning some guns. Gee, I didn't know gun ownership had so much baggage!

In reality, we all know that those lacking a real argument often seek to supplement it by further demonizing those opposed. I am confident that most people can see the accusations for what they are.

[MrBenchley]

35. Nuff said....

"Qui potest capere capiat"

"In reality, we all know that those lacking a real argument often seek to supplement it by further demonizing those opposed."
Sort of the way the RKBA crowd keeps pretending gun control is racist...

[Wcross]

41. You are a first

I have never in my 40 years been accused of being a racist- until you came along. I have never been suspected of any mental illness until you made your blanket accusations about all gun owners.

Face it MrBenchley, you are far from a civil rights marcher, you are pimping away rights from ALL Americans. Unlike you, I support the rights of All Americans to own firearms in defense of life and liberty.

[MrBenchley]

44. Who are you trying to kid?

You READ the sentence "Sort of the way the RKBA crowd keeps pretending gun control is racist." and respond "I have never in my 40 years been accused of being a racist- until you came along."

"Qui potest capere capiat"

[Wcross]

46. Gee, many of your other posts accuse gun owners of racisim.

This is not news to you. YOU ARE the first one to ever accuse me of it too.

You are only fooling yourself MrBenchley.

[MrBenchley]

47. No, cross...

Many of my posts point out ACCURATELY that the actual leaders of the gun rights movement are malignant racist turds. NRA board member Ted Nugent and Gun Owners of America grand wizard Larry Pratt are two that spring to mind....but there are plenty more.

I suggest someone who can read the sentence "Sort of the way the RKBA crowd keeps pretending gun control is racist." and pretend it is an accusation of racism about them isn't fooling ANYBODY in any way.

[Wcross]

50. Wasn't refering to this thread.

What does it do for your cause by pointing to the KKK as examples of gun owners. Are you hoping the stigma will rub off on all of us? Yes they own guns, I don't care- as a matter of fact, it is all the more reason for others to be armed.

"I suggest someone who can read the sentence "Sort of the way the RKBA crowd keeps pretending gun control is racist." and pretend it is an accusation of racism about them isn't fooling ANYBODY in any way"

Did you think I was refering to that statement? You have posted many times in the past that gun rights groups are racist, that gun owners are neurotic. You have given some evidence that the leadership of some gun rights groups may be racists. Does that make the members of the group racist?

You have never even attepmted to give evidence for your diagnosis of all gun owners being neurotic.

[MrBenchley]

53. Koresh only knows what you ARE referring to, cross....

"What does it do for your cause by pointing to the KKK as examples of gun owners."
For one very pertinent thing, it helps put all those bogus claims by RKBA enthusiasts that "gun control is racist" in pretty stark perspective and shows them for the steaming pile of horseshit they are.

"Did you think I was refering to that statement? "
Yeah, cross. I don't see what the hell else you WERE referring to. I say something, you respond, but you aren't responding to what I said? And I'm supposed to guess this how?

"You have given some evidence that the leadership of some gun rights groups may be racists."
MAY BE?? Who are you trying to kid, cross?

"Does that make the members of the group racist?"
If someone is told Hitler is evil but keeps following him around, what conclusion are we entitled to draw? Especially if that person is going to alternate between defending Hitler and jeering at people who mention that Hitler is evil?

"You have never even attepmted to give evidence for your diagnosis of all gun owners being neurotic."
Gee, cross, I've let the RKBA crowd supply that.

[MrBenchley]

48. Speaking of racists...

Here’s the KKK on the issue:

"The so-called gun control bill enacted by the government is nothing but anti-self defense laws designed to disarm law abiding citizens. The right to own guns as guaranteed by the 2nd amendment to the United States Constitution must be protected. Gun ownership is NOT a privilege, it’s a CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT!!! The Texas Knights work to completely restore the right of all law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms."

http://www.texaskkk.com/platform.htm

Yeah, these are the sort of people Democrats should be trying ot reach out to...IN A PIG'S EYE.

[Romulus]

49. who wants

to reach out to those KKK guys? Why would we, besides an effort at trying to turn them around from their racist ways?:shrug:

Yeah, these are the sort of people Democrats should be trying ot reach out to...IN A PIG'S EYE.

[MrBenchley]

52. Gee...

Who is that always says we have to reach out to folks who say stuff like "Gun ownership is NOT a privilege, it’s a CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT!!! "

[Paladin]

51. Don't Act Like A Wounded Debutante......

....about being accused of racism, not in this forum, anyway. For as long as I've been participating in J/PS, RKBA militants have been accusing gun control advocates of being racist. It's never convincing, because, as anybody with half a brain cell working knows, the vast majority of this country's racists are clustered together with the majority of gun rights advocates on the far-right part of the political spectrum, way the hell away from the Democratic Party. That's the way it is.

[MrBenchley]

54. There's a reason

that gun shows are lousy with swastikas and confederate flags...and it isn't because the gun nut crowd are such great lovers of tolerance and diversity.

[demsrule4life]

9. I never knew you wanted to discuss firearms

You have made it very well known that you hate firearms, would never let one into your house and you have the wisdom to think that noone else should own a firearm either. So what is there to discuss with you?

[iverglas]

13. how odd

Your post indicates that it is in response to one of mine, and yet you appear to be talking to someone else. An imaginary friend, perhaps?

In what universe is the following false allegation:

"you have the wisdom to think that noone else should own a firearm either"

-- an allegation that is known to the person making it to be false (who cannot by any stretch of the imagination credibly deny knowing it to be false) -- not a "personal attack"?

Beats me.

.

[iverglas]

27. sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear

I should have made the problem clearer, I suppose.

In what universe is the following allegation:

"You have made it very well known that you hate firearms,
would never let one into your house and you have the wisdom to
think that noone else should own a firearm either."

-- i.e., specifically, the underlined passage -- which is a false allegation made about me by someone who knows it to be false and cannot by any stretch of the imagination claim not to know that it is false (and I wonder what normal people would call that ...) -- not a personal attack?

No takers?

.

[MrBenchley]

29. Wish I could

but I'm still bemused at how this attempt to defend what a good job folks like the Ku Klux Klan is doing in arming neurotics mutated into a discussion of MY racial background.

[RoeBear]

16. It's your opinion...

..that is insignificant not the subject.

"(and, IMO of course, one very insignificant element, if it even is an element)"

[iverglas]

28. and that would be

... your opinion, wouldn't it now?

Gosh, what a fruitful exchange of views that was.

.

[CO Liberal]

11. Uh .... RoeBear .....

I've been told that the people who support the 2nd amendment are made up mostly of racists.

And if someone told you the moon was made of green cheese, would you simply accept THAT as a fact, too??

If so, I know of a bridge in Brooklyn and some lovely swampland in Florida you may be interested in......

[MrBenchley]

12. Actually what he was told

was that the cries that "gun control is racist" were so much horseshit, and that just about every racist that can be accounted for, high or low, is squarely in the crowd howling for "gun rights." In fact, the leadership of both major associations representing "people who support (i.e., pretend there's only half of) the Second Amendment" is thick with blatantly racist asswipes.

But you may have noticed that RKBA "logic" has a wondrous knack of turning sense to nonsense.

[RoeBear]

15. Are you saying that...

...the person who told me that was mistaken?

[CO Liberal]

23. My Bad

Sorry, RoeBear - I misread your original post. It was early this morning, and the coffee hadn't kicked in.

:-)

I don't believe that there are an overabundance of racists in the RKBA ranks. However, I do believe that there are more racists on the RKBA side of the fence than on the pro-control side, IMHO.

[1a2b3c]

33. I would agree

we are a much larger group.

[MrBenchley]

36. Nice group you've put yourself in, bunky...

CO Liberal: "there are more racists on the RKBA side of the fence"
1a2b3c: "I would agree
we are a much larger group."

[1a2b3c]

38. culturally diverse

but continue with the troll posts, i am trying to get out of the 4,700 club.

[MrBenchley]

40. Nope...racist

As you yourself volunteered...

[hansberrym]

55. Haven't you forgotten something?

"However, I do believe that there are more racists on the RKBA side of the fence than on the pro-control side, IMHO."


What about the anti-RKBA side? Are you implying that pro-gun control is the same thing as anti-RKBA?

[MrBenchley]

56. Hans, who are you trying to kid?

Every gun nut in the world has been screaming for years that anybody who is mildly supportive of any sort of common sense gun control is "anti-second amendmennt" and "opposed to the RKBA"...and now you're PRETENDING there's two different sorts of movements?

What a pantload.

[Romulus]

17. I hope

the "useful idiots" served their purpose in Mari333's state:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=504953&mesg_id=504953

Or else she's ass out. . . .

I encourage those who claim RKBA supporters are "uncivilized" and/or "racist scum repukes" to read the responses to that thread . .

[MrBenchley]

18. Real quick, rom

Where do you suppose the people harassing her stand on the issue?

[Romulus]

19. I don't know

Where do they stand on breathing air? Or having running water? Or affordable access to the internet? Or the right to peaceable assembly? :crazy::shrug:

[MrBenchley]

20. Oh come on......

You mean to tell me you can't guess where hardcore Republican conservatives might stand on the issue of gun control? You're baffled like a babe in the woods?

You haven't got any clue what the sort of people who think that Rush Limbaugh and Gordon Liddy are gods speaking from Olympus might have to say on that issue?

Funny, you don't seem to have any trouble letting your "intuition" run wild on other issues....you were quick to chime in to agree with the "enthusaist" who claimed to know I wasn't black.

Let's see if we can guess together...do you think those thugs agree or disagree with Sean Hannity? Do you think they agree or disagree with Ted Nugent?

http://www.johnlott.org/

[Romulus]

21. I never said you weren't <anything>

If you look, I was agreeing with his second paragraph. . .

What's that about intuition?

Q: If the hard-right crowd disagrees with the Patriot Act, should "good liberals" therefore rush to defend it?

(On edit)
I could pull a <unnamed DU'er> and point out that that the words Spoken like someone who wasn't born black does NOT refer to that "someone " being something other than "black."

But I don't see the worth of doing that.

[MrBenchley]

22. Surrrrrre, rom....

"Spoken like someone who wasn't born black  Muddleoftheroad   Oct-09-03 01:21 PM   #6 
     --you got that right  Romulus   Oct-09-03 01:29 PM   #7 "

"Q: If the hard-right crowd disagrees with the Patriot Act, should "good liberals" therefore rush to defend it?"
That would be the Patriot Act put forward by "hard right" loony John AshKKKroft, wouldn't it?

"Majority Whip Tom DeLay (R-TX) commended President Bush's signing of the Anti-Terrorism Act today. The Provide Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism or PATRIOT Act, which passed the House of Representatives by an overwhelming margin of 356-66 Wednesday, empowers law enforcement and the intelligence community to prosecute the war on terrorism. "

http://tomdelay.com/html/prelease.cfm?release_id=177

"Law Provides Needed Tools
By Orrin G. Hatch
R-Utah...The Patriot Act has not eroded any of the rights we hold dear as Americans. I would be the first to call for corrective action, were that the case. Yet not one of the civil liberties groups has cited one instance of abuse of our constitutional rights, one decision by any court that any part of the Patriot Act was unconstitutional or one shred of evidence to contradict the fact that these tools protect what is perhaps our most important civil liberty: the freedom from future terrorist attacks."

http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/texts/03051201.htm

Do Hatch and DeLay fit your idea of "good liberals"?

[Romulus]

24. knock yourself out, 'B

knock yourself out. :eyes:

[MrBenchley]

25. Already knocked out somebody else....

obviously

[Wcross]

42. Self inflicted TKO BWAAAA! N/T

[MrBenchley]

45. Not even close to true, cross....