GUNS IN THE NEWS - October 13, 2003

[CO Liberal]

1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message.

2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories are welcome in this thread, as well as gun-related editorials.

3 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.

4 - In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted to the 'Net within the past 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board.

5 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.

[CO Liberal]

1. State joins national effort to target gun-toting criminals (Montana)

SOunds like they're enforcing existing laws. - Wayne

State joins national effort to target gun-toting criminals

MISSOULA - A national effort on winning federal firearms convictions has taken a local tone in Montana where officers around the state are referring to it as "Catch and No Release."

Bill Mercer, Montana's U.S. attorney, said he expects about 100 firearms cases to be filed in the state this year - or double what Montana has seen in recent years.

So far, almost half of about 20 criminal cases in Missoula's federal court involve gun violations from around Western Montana.

"I think it's wonderful," Missoula County Sheriff Mike McMeekin said.

<more>

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?tl=1&display=rednews/2003/10/13/build/state/45-guntargets.inc

[CO Liberal]

2. Man behind bars after waving a gun on I-81

Yet another law-abiding gun owner we don't have to worry about..... - Wayne

* * * * * * * * * *

Man behind bars after waving a gun on I-81

HAGERSTOWN, MD OCTOBER 12- A Pennsylvania man is behind bars for a different type of road rage.

Police say Tony Frye, Jr. of Waynesboro was traveling southbound on Interstate 81 pointing a handgun at several other drivers. One of the drivers used a cell phone to call Maryland State Police while following Frye's vehicle. Frye led the victim into the Prime Outlets in Hagerstown where police were able to stop him.

<more>

http://www.nbc25.com/Global/story.asp?S=1479244&nav=0aMJIUER

[CO Liberal]

3. Vance H.S. Students Charged With Bringing Gun To School

There has to be a reason students feel the need to bring guns in to schools. We need to find it, and work on solutions. - Wayne

* * * * * * * * *

Vance H.S. Students Charged With Bringing Gun To School

VANCE COUNTY, N.C. -- Two Northern Vance High School students are jailed, accused of bringing a gun to school.

Vance County sheriff's deputies arrested Shamon Yancey and Derrick Haywood Friday after a school resource officer alerted them to a gun inside a car on school grounds.

Sheriff Thomas Bredlove said said the students, ages 17 and 18, may have a grudge against another student.

The students are charged with having a gun on educational property and are each being held on $5,000 bond.

<more>

http://www.wral.com/news/2549922/detail.html

[CO Liberal]

4. Drinking and carrying gun now a felony

Makes sense to me. - Wayne

* * * * * * * * *

Drinking and carrying gun now a felony

With the new concealed-carry gun law, other laws are changing, and Marion County officials have advice for the public: Don't mix drinking with carrying a gun.

The result of ignoring this advice could be finding yourself charged with a felony offense.

Marion County Prosecuting Attorney Tom Redington explained the new concealed-carry law, which was scheduled to take effect Saturday but has been delayed, has a provision that makes possession of a loaded firearm while intoxicated a felony. He added that previously this has just been a misdemeanor offense.

"The legislature obviously concluded that if we are going to be having lot of people in Missouri toting weapons, we are at least going to make sure these armed citizens are sober," Redington said.

<more>

http://www.hannibal.net/stories/101303/hap_1013030012.shtml

[MrBenchley]

5. Greensburg Man Charged With Shooting Wife

Another family made safer by guns.....

"GREENSBURG, Pa. -- A Greensburg man is in jail, charged with shooting his wife to death on Sunday.
John Majercik, 35, is being held in the Westmoreland County Jail without bond on charges he killed his 39-year-old wife in their home.
Greensburg police Lt. Douglas Marcoz says the couple were no strangers to police. Officers went to the home at least three times in the past six months, including domestic violence and child endangerment. "

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/2549546/detail.html

[MrBenchley]

6. Man Accused Of Shooting Pregnant Teen

"PHILADELPHIA (KYW) Police say a 23-year-old man is in custody, facing charges in the shooting of his 14-year-old pregnant girlfriend.
Police tell CBS 3 it happened Sunday morning in the 2000 block of south 66th Street.
The condition of the woman is unknown, but officials say she and her unborn child are expected to survive."


http://kyw.com/Local%20News/local_story_285204724.html

[bleedingheart]

59. 23 year old man with 14 year old girl?

Now I would have expected her dad to shoot the screwball.

[CO Liberal]

64. Hey, MrBenchley......

An off-topic question.

When did KYW (Channel 3 in Philly) become a CBS affiliate? It was always NBC when I lived in New Jersey, WFIL (Channel 6) was the ABC affiliate, and WCAU Channel 10 was CBS.

[MrBenchley]

7. Argument Leads to Shooting

"Mississippi Highway Patrol spokesman Warren Strain says James McRoy of Pelahatchie was shot to death around 1am on Highway 43 near Tommy's Trading Post. 38-year-old Terry L. Magee Junior of Brandon is charged with murder. Witnesses tell WLBT that James McRoy was being harassed by Magee. The two argued then Brandon man shot McRoy in the chest. Magee is being held without bond at the Rankin County jail. "

http://www.wlbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=1478905&nav=2CSfIU0L

[MrBenchley]

8. Police Investigating South Park Shooting

Wish this was only a badly drawn cartoon...

"Police are investigating an attempted murder-suicide in South Park Township this morning.
The coroner was called to Sebolt Road at about 8 a.m. "

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/2549864/detail.html

[CO Liberal]

9. Someone Didn't Respect Someone Else's "Authori-tie"

There seems to be way too many murder-suicides lately.....

[MrBenchley]

10. Bombs Found in Home of Murdered Gun Dealer

The gun industry....scummy from top to bottom....

"SANFORD, Fla. (AP) - Police investigating the slaying of a firearms dealer found hundreds of military weapons and live bombs inside his house, prompting the evacuation of several homes.
Scott Quinn, 37, was found dead by his girlfriend about 4:30 a.m. Sunday in his home in this small central Florida city. Investigators said Quinn was murdered but did not release details.
About 10 homes remained evacuated Monday because of fears the bombs might explode, and Army weapons experts were being brought in to analyze the weapons and explosives, police Lt. Ron Daugherty said.
The stash also included Czech grenades and live ``Bouncing Betties,'' bombs that bounce on the ground and explode in the air. Investigators also found two World War II-era .30-caliber machine guns that could sell for as much as $30,000 each, Wilson said. "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-3258457,00.html

[MrBenchley]

11. Stockton Shootings Leaves 1 Dead, 1 Wounded

"One man was shot to death and another was wounded Monday in an outbreak of violence in the Stockton area, 10News reported.
Officers were called to 30th Street and Imperial Avenue at about 2:15 a.m. to investigate a report that a man was shot, San Diego police acting Lt. Jorge Duran said.
When officers arrived, they found a man suffering from a gunshot wound, Duran said, adding that paramedics were unable to save him, and he died at the scene. His name was withheld pending family notification.
At about the same time, officers were called to 28th Street and state Route 94 where a man was found with multiple gunshot wounds, Duran said. "


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031013/lo_kgtv/1828880

[slackmaster]

12. "Outbreak of violence in the Stockton area"

Weasel words for a gang war.

[MrBenchley]

13. Pine man shot by cops dies

"A Pine man has died after being shot by Denver police at a hotel Saturday night.
Brant Murphy, 38, died after he was taken to Denver Health Medical Center, police said Sunday.
The incident started about 8 p.m. Saturday, when Murphy's wife called police to say she was afraid because Murphy was in the parking lot of the Ramada Inn, 2601 Zuni St., with a gun.
Murphy has a lengthy criminal record, including arrests on charges of child abuse, drug possession, assault and intimidating a witness in Clear Creek County in 1995."

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_2343212,00.html

Guess nobody felt safer because Murphy had a gun.

[CO Liberal]

14. I Wonder....

Murphy has a lengthy criminal record, including arrests on charges of child abuse, drug possession, assault and intimidating a witness in Clear Creek County in 1995.

Did he also have a lifetime NRA membership???

:-)

[MrBenchley]

15. He should...

the NRA spent millions to try and get Colorado to keep the gun show loophole open so thugs like him could buy guns without going through a background check....but Colorado voters closed it anyway.

[Withergyld]

18. The "myth" of the "gunshow loophole" again?

It would seem from the article that the man in question should have been prohibited from owning a firearm due to his prior record.
The article does not say where/how the criminal got the firearm. I can see how closing the "gunshow loophole" prevented a criminal from getting a gun in this case.
:eyes:

[MrBenchley]

19. Still peddling that crap, with?

"It would seem from the article that the man in question should have been prohibited from owning a firearm due to his prior record."
And yet the GOP and the NRA want him to be able to walk into a gun show and get a gun without a background check.

"The article does not say where/how the criminal got the firearm."
Gee, with, so you think OTHER criminals and lunatics ought to be able to buy guns without background checks if this one didn't?

RKBA "logic"...no wonder Mary Rosh seems like a scientist to this crowd....

[Withergyld]

21. The only thing I pedal is a mountain bike.

I will state this again:
I do not think Criminals should have access to firearms.
The focus on only stopping private sales at gunshows is a waste of time and effort and will have little if any effect on reducing criminal access to guns.

[slackmaster]

22. Oh, but it FEEEEEELS so good to close the GSL

As I've said before, these GSL-closing enthusiasts have linguistically painted themselves into a corner by insisting that gun shows are a major source of guns for criminals. They've bought into the Brady/VPC propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

Too bad they reject advice from those of us who know something about the subject. They're blinded by their own paranoia about gun owners.

[MrBenchley]

25. Yeah, that's why the gun industrry spends millions

to keep it propped open.

Who are you trying to kid, slack?

[slackmaster]

26. Cite, please

On what data is your claim of "millions" based?

[MrBenchley]

32. Who are you trying to kid, slack?

[slackmaster]

36. What's this? No source?

I am shocked, SHOCKED to see that MrBenchley is blowing smoke again.

[MrBenchley]

44. Slack, maybe somebody buys your silly act somewhere

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.asp?Ind=Q13

But I know what a steaming pantload it is.

[slackmaster]

47. And a Red Herring from MrBenchley

Cited source has no information about specific lobbying efforts related to the misnamed "gun-show loophole".

You keep trying to cover one fallacy with another. It's not working.

[MrBenchley]

54. Again, who the hell are you trying to kid?

"Cited source has no information about specific lobbying efforts related to the misnamed "gun-show loophole"."
<sarcasm>Yeah, slack, they gave more than $13 million to try and get your cockamamie scheme off the ground.....</sarcasm>

[slackmaster]

56. Please try to stay focused on the topic

Your personal attacks are inappropriate.

Do you have data to support your statement that the gun industry spends millions of dollars per year to keep the misnamed "gun-show loophole" open?

[MrBenchley]

60. Who are you trying to kid, really?

"Do you have data to support your statement that the gun industry spends millions of dollars per year to keep the misnamed "gun-show loophole" open?"
Yeah, and I gave it to you. Now go bitch about it to someone who gives a crap.

[slackmaster]

62. All you gave me was a bunch of guff and rude behavior

The data you supplied does not support your claim.

[MrBenchley]

65. You ain't seen rude behavior, bub...

and as for guff....you seem to have more than an adequate supply of your own.

Now go play "let's pretend" with someone dumb enough to fall for that crap.

[slackmaster]

68. Are you threatening me?

If so I think you should retract your statement.

[MrBenchley]

70. Hahahahahahahahahaha....

[slackmaster]

71. What do you mean by that?

n/t

[MrBenchley]

73. I mean, hahahahahahahahahahaha....

[MrBenchley]

23. Yeah, surrrrrrrrre......

"The focus on only stopping private sales at gunshows is a waste of time and effort and will have little if any effect on reducing criminal access to guns. "
Sez you.

[Withergyld]

24. Can you show that gunshows are a major source of firearms for criminals

without using statistics from the VPC or Brady Center?
I have shown statistics from a .gov study showing that gunshows are NOT a major source for criminals to buy firearms. I have yet to see a reputable source that shows otherwise.
Since gunshows are not a major source where criminals get firearms (less then 1%). I don't see how closing the "GSL" will have a significant if any effect on crime.

[MrBenchley]

27. Sure....

""First, gun shows have become a paradise for illegal firearms sales because felons frequent gun shows to avoid having to go through a background check. As Senator McCain undoubtedly recognizes, gun shows are the soft money of the gun control debate - the unregulated area that those seeking to skirt the law prefer.
"Second, we know that background checks keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
"Gun enthusiasts, collectors, and other law-abiding buyers who go to gun shows have nothing to fear from a Brady check. The only people who are really burdened by gun show background checks are criminals. "

http://www.senate.gov/~schumer/SchumerWebsite/pressroom/press_releases/PR00573.html



"I have shown statistics from a .gov study showing that gunshows are NOT a major source for criminals to buy firearms."
Based on a survey of convicted felons, who of course are as honest as the day is long </sarcasm>.

"I don't see how closing the "GSL" will have a significant if any effect on crime."
Which of course doesn't stop you from bitterly fighting the eforts of those of us who DO.

[slackmaster]

28. And for our next fallacious argument...

...MrBenchley presents:

Appeal to Authority.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html

Obviously Senator Schumer is an intelligent fellow but he is no expert on guns or crime. He is one of the authors of the present federal "assault weapon" ban, and seemed to be genuinely surprised when gun manufacturers removed a few offending features and kept selling pretty much the same firearms.

[MrBenchley]

46. What does your FAVORITE authority lately say about

the scummy "gun rights" movement, I wonder?

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/adl/paranoia-as-patriotism/louis-r-beam.html

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/adl/paranoia-as-patriotism/aryan-nations.html

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/adl/paranoia-as-patriotism/liberty-lobby.html

[slackmaster]

53. They'd probably say that your post is a Guilt By Association fallacy

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html

[MrBenchley]

55. Nope, they pointed out the scum pushing that issue

and described them in detail.

[slackmaster]

57. What issue?

n/t

[Withergyld]

30. What data does the Honorable Mr. Schumer base his statement on?

No source is given for the basis of his statements.
"First, gun shows have become a paradise for illegal firearms sales because felons frequent gun shows to avoid having to go through a background check. As Senator McCain undoubtedly recognizes, gun shows are the soft money of the gun control debate - the unregulated area that those seeking to skirt the law prefer."
Show me a better study from a reputable source (no VPC or Brady Center) then the one I often refer to.
Something with numbers to support any claims would be sufficient.

[slackmaster]

31. It's one of those "Because I said so" arguments

No basis in fact is needed when you have a captive audience of sheep who are eager to believe anything you say.

[CO Liberal]

33. Sounds Like a Typical NRA Convention To Me

No basis in fact, and a captive audience of sheep.

:-)

[slackmaster]

38. I don't suppose YOU can back up Sen. Schumer's claim, CO

Naw, that would be asking too much.

[Withergyld]

43. smear tactics to avoid the question

:dunce:

[MrBenchley]

37. Sort of like the "gun rights" crowd

[slackmaster]

39. And still nothing to substantiate the claim

I suppose a tu quoque is better than simply walking away from a challenge you are unable to address.

[MrBenchley]

48. Gee, slack, how tragic for you

that I take the word of a respected US Senator and leading Democrat over that of an RKBA "enthusiast"....

[slackmaster]

51. False bifurcation

Nobody is saying Senator Schumer's claim is necessarily wrong. We're just asking for substantiation. I insist on seeing the numbers before I take his rather vague statement at face value.

[MrBenchley]

58. So you're bitching for no reason in particular

other than your gun fetish...

"I insist on seeing the numbers before I take his rather vague statement at face value."
Gee, so lots of Nazis at the gun show don't faze you, but "vagueness" in Schumer's remark has your panties in a wad.

[Withergyld]

45. Nice to see the facts posted

to refute the statement I made. :spank:

[MrBenchley]

49. Glad I could help you out...

Any time you want some more facts to bitch about, be sure and speak out.

[Withergyld]

77. since there have been no facts posted to disprove my statement

it must be true. All the rest of the garbage posted helps to further prove my point. Keep it up!

[MrBenchley]

35. Gee, with, between you and Schumer

I believe Schumer.

[Withergyld]

41. That is your choice

to believe Mr. Schumer. Without any facts to support his statement I will disagree.
edit for spelling

[MrBenchley]

50. Yeah, it is....

Just as it is my choice to ignore your silly spin.

[Withergyld]

61. I can see

by your replies that you are ignoring it.
:hi:

[CO Liberal]

52. Charles Schumer Is Making Statements Under His Own Name

You're posting statements anonymously on an Internet board.

I'll go with The Senior Senator from the great state of New York.....

[MrBenchley]

63. Notice Nazis at the gun show don't faze these guys

but this vagueness seems to have their heads all kerfuffled...

[slackmaster]

69. I've never seen a Nazi at a gun show

But I've seen plenty of inflammatory, unfounded statements about guns coming from Senator Schumer.

[MrBenchley]

72. Well, there went your credibility....

Now go cry about Schumer to somebody who cares.

[Withergyld]

74. Ad Hominem

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

Description of Ad Hominem
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:


Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

Example of Ad Hominem

Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."
."

[Withergyld]

67. If you decide

to believe a statement without a basis in fact just because someone is a Senator that is your choice. I have shown facts that disprove his statement.

[MrBenchley]

75. Gee, with, you mean like

how you believed the LIE about Feinstein in the "49 million" thread?

I notice there you didn't even mind there was no link to the source of the lie....just jumped right in and kept on wallowing in it.

[Withergyld]

76. I made no claim

as to the truth of the original post of that thread. I merely pointed out that the fact that an assault rifle was used had no impact on the outcome of the events.
Try again.
Edited for spelling

[slackmaster]

20. Keep on deluding yourself about that, MrBenchley

Secondary Sales
Are background checks required on 'private' gun sales? PARTIAL

Colorado - No state requirement that criminal background checks be done on people buying firearms through newspaper, internet or other advertisements or "on the street." Criminal background checks are only required if the buyer goes to a federally-licensed gun store or purchases a firearm at a recognized gun show. Aside from gun shows, all "private" sales between individuals are not subject to the background check. Also see: Gun Shows.

Source: http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.asp?state=co#secondary

[MrBenchley]

29. And what a fight to close it, too....

The corrupt gun industry spent millions and marshalled small armies of hysterical "gun rights" loonies lying their asses off everywhere they could.

Do you reallly want to pretend the corrupt gun industry was trying to close all loopholes? They were trying to get them propped even more widely open...and after the referendum passed, they tried to get the GOP legislature to allow them to sell guns in the parking lots of gun shows without background checks..

[slackmaster]

34. Looks like, yes ladies and gentlemen, ANOTHER STRAW MAN!

Do you reallly want to pretend the corrupt gun industry was trying to close all loopholes?

Are you still directing this at me?

...they tried to get the GOP legislature to allow them to sell guns in the parking lots of gun shows without background checks.

So instead of conducting business there they have to meet somewhere else. That's some awsomely effective "gun control" all right.

NOT!

[MrBenchley]

40. Who the hell are you trying to kid, slack?

"So instead of conducting business there they have to meet somewhere else."
Yup. And they have to conduct background checks at a gun show. Now go cry about it to someone who gives a crap about the RKBA crowd's phony sideshows.

[slackmaster]

42. Flame bait

n/t

[MrBenchley]

66. Yeah, but I ain't falling for it.

[Emoto]

16. In the comics

[MrBenchley]

17. Wow...

I didn't think it was POSSIBLE to have an uglier, stupider and less funny comic than Mallard Fillmore.

Don't miss this piece of shit.....


Or this one...

[FlashHarry]

78. Locking

This thread has degenerated into a series of personal attacks.

The moderators again ask that you please try to respect the views of other DUers when posting.

Remember, it's okay to attack an idea, not a person.

FlashHarry
DU Moderator