Pensioner arrested for chasing away youths with piece of wood

[beevul]

Pensioner arrested for chasing away youths with piece of wood
By Nigel Bunyan
Last Updated: 4:33PM BST 08/07/2008

A pensioner who used a piece of wood to chase away a gang of teenagers who had been throwing stones at his home is facing a jail term after being arrested and charged with possessing an offensive weapon.

Sydney Davis, 65, a father-of-two, dialled 999 when his home in the Pinehurst area of Swindon, Wilts, came under attack.

But when police failed to turn up over the next two hours he decided to take action himself.

He grabbed a section of wood from a broken-up sofa lying in his front garden and chased the youths down the street - just as police officers finally arrived.

Mr Davis, a retired builder, was astonished when police arrested him while allowing the gang to run to safety.

Mr Davis, whose windows have been smashed five times in the last eight months, branded the law "a colossal ass".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2269229/Pensioner-arrested-for-chasing-away-youths-with-plank.html

Banning guns for the most part...and proposing to ban knives...and now this...is that what "civilized" means when the people that talk about "the civilized world" in the gun debate? If it is, they can have it...just not in America.


Those "old dead rich white guys"...some people say they never envisioned the weaponry available in this day and age when they penned the second amendment...what would they say about the story above? Lets have a look at what they might say:

"Whereas by supposing they have given up themselves to the absolute arbitrary power and will of a legislator, they have disarmed themselves, and armed him to make a prey of them when he pleases..." John Locke

"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." Thomas Paine

I wonder if Mr. Davis would call his ordeal "Horrid mischief"...I certainly would.

[papapi]

1. And where were the hooligan's parents? Did they make any . . .

comment or offer any explanation for their pesty little buggers? I seriously doubt it.

[rpannier]

2. In a follow up story we'll hear about how

"They are good boys. This story is being blown out of proportion. Our boys are nice and polite. blah, blah, blah, blahty, blahity, blahiteety, blah.

[jeepnstein]

3. He should retire to Texas...

[slackmaster]

4. Everyone knows the proper British response to being attacked with rocks...

...Is to defend yourself with a banana.

[SteveM]

6. Watch out! That may be an AK-47 clip! And I see black, too! (nt)

[benEzra]

5. So sticks are offensive weapons, but rocks are not? (n/t)

[iverglas]

7. oh, well, just to clear this up in your mind

An object is a "weapon" when it is used or intended to be used to assault a person.

A window is not a person.

I doubt very much that you would refer to a bulldozer being used to knock down a house as a "weapon".

So why, exactly, would you ask the question you posted? --

So sticks are offensive weapons, but rocks are not?

Yes, benEzra. Rocks are offensive weapons when they are being used to assault a person, or are possessed with the intention to assault a person. Does that clear that up now?

[slackmaster]

9. If you throw a rock at a window is it reasonable to assume no person will be injured?

I don't believe it is.

[benEzra]

10. *Through* a window...

and given the recent history of interactions between groups of yobs and single older individuals in the UK, carrying a stick was probably prudent.

One is also forgetting who the aggressors were here. The man didn't run out into the street and beat the yobs with a stick, after which they threw rocks; they mobbed his house and threw rocks through his windows, and he chased them off waving a stick. And the police let the yobs go, and charged the victim.

[SteveM]

12. My new combining form for this crap: "crimino-centric" policy-making (nt)

[Howzit]

14. "I doubt very much that you would refer to a bulldozer being used to knock down a house as a weapon"

It would be a weapon if the house was occupied and driver of the bulldozer knew it.

You do touch on an all important consideration: Intent is more important than the tool used. The kids throwing the stones could have injured someone inside with glass splinters. They may not have intended to directly harm the old man, but seem to have been willing to harm him indirectly - if not by flying glass shards, then to the extent of the cost of replacing the windows.

The problem with this situation is the kids knew where the man lived and he probably didn't know where they lived. I had a drug dealer and 4 of his clients threaten me verbally for standing in my front yard watching them do business - at first I thought they were lost and might need a map. Did I call the cops, or threaten to do anything about their activities when I discovered the drug deals were happening a few times a week? Hell no; people who accost you outside your home have you at a disadvantage because they can always come back later to do any number of things; from vandalism to arson or worse. Instead of calling the cops, I bought a shotgun to use as a negotiating tool only in the event that they lost their way and accidentally broke into my house while I was home. These dealers kept on trading outside my home until I installed 5 obvious video cameras pointing at "entry points" to my house, not the street.

Perhaps the old man in the story should have borrowed a video camera and recorded the events as evidence. He certainly should not have threatened the kids outside his home.

[Howzit]

16. Not "rocks" silly; "stones"... N/T

[iverglas]

8. I spend a fair bit of time reading a Brit discussion board

and this exact incident is replicated in discussions there all the time. Low-level hooliganism, often involving throwing things at houses, is apparently fairly widespread. And there is widespread dissatisfaction with police response.

Back in about 1963, when my brother was about 8, he and his little friend were throwing rocks at the friend's basement window, and broke it. Obviously, they were going to throw rocks until it broke. How else would the game have ended? My brother, a very clever boy who could do an excellent imitation of a sociopath, persuaded everyone involved that it was Billy who broke the window. Really, it hardly mattered, since they were both throwing rocks. When my brother was about 30, he let us all in on the joke, that he was the one who'd thrown the ultimate rock.

Pre-adolescents throwing rocks at windows is hardly some newfangled British invention. What is true is that in the past, a householder chasing the hooligans down the street with a piece of wood would have been standard operating procedure, and the community would have thought that the appropriate response.

But then, the community would likely have been more involved with its children in positive ways, as well. It seems to me that today, everybody wants children to be perfectly behaved, and will immediately point the finger at parents whose children are not perfectly behaved, and nobody is willing to do what everybody did in another era -- not just take up pieces of wood against children who behaved badly, but have an actual relationship with other people's children in their neighbhourhood.

I've done it. Ten years ago, there was a family on our block who really did not seem to have grasped that this urban neighbourhood was not a village in China, and that cars drove fast down our street even though they should not, and the middle of the road was not a good place for a two-year-old. I and one or two others on the street -- my lesbian bug-studying grad student neighbour in particular -- tried to fill the gap. We worked on the two pre-schoolers and their (very responsible) older sister diligently, imposing consequences for not looking before crossing the street or for leaving the two-year-old stranded, by refusing to talk to them if they crossed to play with us until they did it right, and that sort of thing. I hired the problematic 12-yr-old boy next door to get me my Saturday papers from the 7-11 and shovel my driveway. I had the older girls in the neighbourhood visit and gave them craft supplies and taught them rudimentary piano. I never had rocks thrown at my house.

Mind you, I did when I first moved in. Two families on the block at that time had seriously problematic children, who were well beyond reach of my efforts. Too bad somebody wasn't there earlier to make an effort.

British society, like ours, has changed from a couple of generations ago when adults didn't just notice children when they misbehave, they interacted with them regularly. And we all reap what we sow.

[benEzra]

11. Well done.

I've done it. Ten years ago, there was a family on our block who really did not seem to have grasped that this urban neighbourhood was not a village in China, and that cars drove fast down our street even though they should not, and the middle of the road was not a good place for a two-year-old. I and one or two others on the street -- my lesbian bug-studying grad student neighbour in particular -- tried to fill the gap. We worked on the two pre-schoolers and their (very responsible) older sister diligently, imposing consequences for not looking before crossing the street or for leaving the two-year-old stranded, by refusing to talk to them if they crossed to play with us until they did it right, and that sort of thing. I hired the problematic 12-yr-old boy next door to get me my Saturday papers from the 7-11 and shovel my driveway. I had the older girls in the neighbourhood visit and gave them craft supplies and taught them rudimentary piano. I never had rocks thrown at my house.

Well done.

[One_Life_To_Give]

13. Bravo

British society, like ours, has changed from a couple of generations ago when adults didn't just notice children when they misbehave, they interacted with them regularly. And we all reap what we sow.


:toast:

[Howzit]

15. Unfortunately teenagers can throw larger rocks than 8 year olds

Teenagers should also know better about the potential for harm, and about how long it will take to work off the personal debt incurred in paying for the replacement of a lot of glass.