GUNS IN THE NEWS--October 29. 2003

[MrBenchley]

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following guidelines:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted to the 'Net within the past 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. (On Mondays, stories that were originally posted to the 'Net over the weekend - Friday night through Sunday - are considered current. This allows for the fact than amny people are off-line over the weekend, allowing the Monday thread to be a weekend summary.)
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories are welcome in this thread, as well as gun-related editorials, as long as they're current. Please do not post links from a few years back that support your position.
3 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
4 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.
5 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.

[MrBenchley]

1. Waynesburg Woman Dies In Hill District Car Shooting

"City police found a dead woman and an injured man in a parked car in Pittsburgh's Hill District area early Tuesday morning.
Mary Lee Clevanger, 47, of Waynesburg, Greene County, was pronounced dead at the scene in the 200 block of Lombard Street. An autopsy determined that she had been shot in the head.
The male victim, who was also shot, was taken to Mercy Hospital in critical condition. He has not been identified. "


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031029/lo_wtae/1849823

[demsrule4life]

2. 9-year-old arrested for waving toy gun

LORAIN -- A 9-year-old boy was arrested at gunpoint and handcuffed Saturday because he was waving a toy gun over his head while seated on a bench outside a store, according to a Lorain police report.

A favorite phrase with the antigunners is "common sense gun control" only problem, common sense is dying out quick in the U.S.of A.

http://www.morningjournal.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1699&dept_id=46371&newsid=10419957&PAG=461&rfi=9

[Oberst Klink]

3. Inmate indicted on multiple charges in gun incident at jail

How can this be? I thought strict gun control laws (especially those meant to keep weapons out of the hands of prisoners) would have prevented this?

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031029/NEWS03/110290104


Prentiss Williams, 24.

A Toledo man charged with three murders has been indicted for firing a handgun at a corrections officer in the Lucas County jail.

Prentiss Williams, 24, was indicted yesterday by a county grand jury on two counts of felonious assault and one count each of escape and possession of a deadly weapon while under detention. The charges carry specifications that a gun was used in the crimes.

Williams is accused of firing a 9mm handgun that had been smuggled onto the jail’s sixth floor, the facility’s maximum-security unit. The gun was pulled on the officer Oct. 14 while Williams was at a maintenance closet.

After struggling with the officer, Williams is accused of firing the gun twice, and he was subdued after the officer persuaded him to drop the gun.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

[Oberst Klink]

4. Are Gun-Banners Crazy?

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/10/29/guestoped_jf.htm
By Jennifer Freeman

Britain, the country once famed for its unarmed bobbies, is now the most violent country in western Europe. This is in spite of the fact that the people have been disarmed and now only the police have guns.

Repeat. The British have been disarmed and only the police have guns in what has become the most violent country in western Europe. And yet, the ultimate goal of gun-ban organizations like the Brady Campaign, the "Million Mom March", the Violence Policy Center, Americans for Gun Safety, and the United Nations continues to be the disarmament of the people.

The premise of the gun-ban argument seems to be that anyone who owns or attempts to own or possess a firearm is a potential criminal and therefore requires special governmental attention, intrusion, and approval. This is clearly reflected in the way firearms legislation is written and passed through the legislature.

Unfortunately, these laws do nothing to prevent crime. In fact, such laws actually work in favor of violent criminals by preventing victims from fending off an attack.

Consider the following examples:

LAW


EFFECT ON LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS


EFFECT ON CRIMINALS



Waiting period


Prevents people in danger from immediate self-protection.


Enables increased victimization during preventable attacks such as rioting, looting, and stalking.


License


Changes a right into a privilege that can be denied or revoked.


Zero. Handgun licensing does nothing to prevent rape, murder, assault, terrorist bombings, hijackings, car-jackings, etc.



Gun-Free Zone

Gun-Free Schools




Creates a concentrated group of people, usually children at school, who are easily identified as unable to defend against an attack.




Provides a high-profile arena for criminals to carry out horrific crimes against innocent children. These crimes are often committed by people looking to attract worldwide attention to their acts, thereby affecting an even greater radius of people.



Trigger Locks




Prevents household members from quickly attaining their own firearm for personal defense.


Provides additional advantage to the criminal who often relies on the element of surprise to carry out an attack.




With the increased threat of terrorist attacks and increasing gang activity that has branched out of the cities into the furthest reaches of the suburbs, Americans have greater reason than before to seriously think and plan for their personal safety.

It is impossible for us understand how gun-ban organizations can continue to push their disarmament agenda when the fallout of such policy clearly results in tragedy for defenseless people. Surely, anyone who cares about the safety of the people cannot seriously continue to push an idea that has historically and currently reaped an onslaught of otherwise preventable violent crime.

The gun-ban movement has demonstrated its total lack of objectivity and sensibility. We simply cannot wait for the firearm-fearful to come to terms with their phobia. We must take matters into our own hands if we are to ensure liberty for our children and future generations.

[StClone]

5. Wisconsin is one of least violent state in the union

Yet, yet, yet the gun makers, lobbyists, NRA are pushing for a Cash and Carry gun law in WI.

The police don't want it, the people don't want it (why no public referendum?). By US standards Britian is like Wisconsin. You had to go world-wide to find a pro-shoot'em-up stories to illustrate your point. I only have to go to my hometown to find three kids killed by accidental shootings by handguns and NONE by a hunting and NONE by accidental poisoning.

[Oberst Klink]

9. If the people don't like it,...

...they can vote out their current crop of pro-rights office holders and put in some banners in their place.

Problem is, this ain't happenen'.

How about we focus on winning elections instead of the rifle in my closet?

[StClone]

24. Voting them out is the problem

The powers that have you believing that Concealed guns are needed are the same ones that own the airwaves and have people voting against their own best interests.

In Wisconsin we are billions of dollars of short in the budget. Yet the main battles are over Concealed Weapons and other crack legislation.

Are the bad times and bad legislation co-inky-dink? No. The Republicans are having a field day ramming through the wild ass ideology while Cheeseheads look to keep their jobs and raise their families.

We don't need, or want, a C&C in WI but sure shooting the gun industry is going to expand their market come hell or a .22 Short.

[MrBenchley]

6. Sierra Times?

What's next from the RKBA crowd...The C of CC bulletin?

[demsrule4life]

8. Any different then you posting

from the VPC or brady bunch?. At least I have seen some real well written Bush bashing on the Sierra site.

[MrBenchley]

10. Well, yes, of course it is, dems...

The Sierra Times is propaganda for far right wing nutcases.

What was the name of this place again?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

14. Gee, Klink

I don't care if you want to post propaganda from some of the scummiest right wingers on the planet....Just don't expect me not to point it out.

[Oberst Klink]

18. True, they are rabid right wingers

but they are correct on the gun issue.

We need to be rabid about protecting our shrinking rights, one of which is secured by the 2nd Ammendment.

We also need to be rabid about winning elections, not sticking to issues that drive away voters in every place except for NJ, NY and CA.

Again, do you want to win elections? You have never answered this.

Perhaps as a local issue, Gun Control can win. On a national basis, however, it is totally proven as a LOOSER issue.

[CO Liberal]

20. Looser Than What?

And how do you tighten an issue?

:shrug:

[MrBenchley]

23. What a pantload!

They are full of shit on EVERY issue, including this one.

"We also need to be rabid about winning elections"
Shall we also pander to the racists and bigots? How about if we push for right to work laws and pollution?

"On a national basis, however, it is totally proven as a LOOSER issue.On a national basis, however, it is totally proven as a LOOSER issue."
Horseshit. Evenn the DLC's own poll says only half of the four out of ten gun owning voters give a ccrap about this gun rights...we'd be better off not alienating the eight out of ten who want gun control than throwing out public safety to appease the two remaining...who will not vote Democratic anyway.

[StClone]

30. Yeah they were Right about WMD in Iraq too

Guns are a problem not a solution...

[MrBenchley]

32. MINNEAPOLIS: Third taxi driver is shot

"Jordan Scott Rygajlo, 46, a driver for Red & White Taxi, was shot about 1 a.m. two blocks from the North Minneapolis residence where he had just picked up a fare. He was in serious condition later Tuesday at North Memorial Medical Center in Robbinsdale and is expected to recover, authorities said. Police think robbery was the attacker's motive.
It has been a violent year so far for cabdrivers in Minneapolis. On July 10, Blue & White driver Ahmed H. Ahmed, 38, was shot to death while on duty in North Minneapolis. Sylvester Leondo Scott, 20, was charged in his death.
Then on Aug. 8, Mohamed Ahmed Salah, 28, was shot in the back of the head while working in South Minneapolis. Salvador Anthony Pacheco, 25, of Dakota County was charged in his death. Salah was a driver for Red & White Taxi, the same company Rygajlo worked for."

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/news/local/7127065.htm

[StClone]

Right about WMD in Iraq, too

Guns are a problem not a solution.

[demsrule4life]

22. From their about us page

As for our political leanings, when you figure that out, let us know. The Sierra Times is not affiliated with any political party. We consider ourselves independent, yet we have been labeled left-wing, right-wing, and everything in between. We try, whenever possible, to be fair in our news reporting, giving both sides of an issue the opportunity to be heard. This goes especially for our editorial commentaries.

Zealots, on the other hand, get little tolerance here. We find 'extremism' on either side to harm the overall debate. The lone exception is regarding the Constitution of the United States, where we must in fact admit that we are extremists in defending it


Hardly sounds like a bunch of right wing nut cases.
http://www.sierratimes.com/mission.htm

[CO Liberal]

25. Look At Some Of Their Editorials ......

....and try to believe that they're not a bunch of right-wing nut cases.

http://www.sierratimes.com/editorials.htm

[MrBenchley]

28. Appalling, isn't it?

These idiots make that racist junkie Rush Limbaugh look moderate...and well reasoned.

[demsrule4life]

33. CO I dont read Sierra times

I have never posted from there. I have said it before that it is ok for some here to post articles from sites that have an agenda and not ok for others to do the same. When ever I go looking for a link to something I keep it in the back of my mind to make sure that Mr B approves the site I link to. I have said it before and I will say it again, preatty big double standard here.

[MrBenchley]

26. Who the hell are you trying to kid, dems?

These loonies have a department headed "Dixie News." It's not only right wing, it's far far right wing.

A small sampling of the screwloose crap these idiots peddle:

"The period of executive tyranny that Jefferson warned of arrived on the American scene in January 1993 in the persons of William Jefferson Clinton and his wife Hillary. What began with a promise of the most ethical administration in history has proven to be the most corrupt in memory. How did Clinton survive for two terms when past presidents could not have endured a fraction of what he got away with?"

http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/dan/eddd081800.htm

"There is a cancer in the American body politic, which has been allowed to metastasize. It is nurtured by at least 53 members of the 'Progressive Caucus' in congress and has its roots, ideology, and objectives grounded in socialism.
This is not the paranoid rambling of a right wing radical wacko. This is a FACT.
Cicero observed, "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gate is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very hall of government itself…he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist."
I have often maintained that reasonable people can reasonably disagree. However, as evidenced and documented in the work of Tammy Bruce, David Horowitz, Ann Coulter and others, when dealing with the elitist liberal left, that claim assumes facts not in evidence. "

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/06/24/metcalf.htm

"As the institutions of both home and school have yielded their authority to an increasingly socialist government education system over the past century, the need to revive the social authority of the family has become more pressing.
I spent most of my K-12 education at my local government indoctrination center. I was also home schooled during the seventh and eighth grades. The corridors and classrooms of the modern public school are so polluted with the filth of moral relativism that the typical public high school graduate moves into the world devoid of character, conscience, or courage. And while he may have self-esteem, tolerance, and a grasp of diversity, the public school graduate is incompetent in academic comparison to the rest of the free world."

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/10/20/zeiger.htm

And yadda yadda yadda...there's reams of this horseshit daily from these loonies.

[MrBenchley]

7. Pistol found at Phoebus; teen charged Gun stashed in classroom (VA)

"HAMPTON -- After authorities found a .22-caliber revolver stashed in a science classroom incubator earlier this month, a 15-year-old Phoebus High School student was charged with two weapons violations.
Police received an anonymous tip on Oct. 13 that the teenager had a gun on school property, said Hampton police spokesman Jimmie Wideman.
It's at least the second time this academic year a local student has been charged with bringing a gun to a public school. In September, Newport News police arrested a 16-year-old after a loaded revolver was found in his locker at Heritage High School."

http://www.dailypress.com/news/yahoo/dp-00934sy0oct29.story

[MrBenchley]

11. Americans Flock to Get on NRA Blacklist

"LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Most blacklists are designed to intimidate. But thousands of Americans are clamoring to join one drawn up by the National Rifle Association.
Actor Dustin Hoffman was so dismayed to find his name missing from the NRA's shadowy 19-page list of U.S. companies, celebrities, and news organizations seen as lending support to anti-gun policies that he wrote to the powerful pro-gun lobby group begging to be included.
The NRA initially denied compiling a blacklist as such, saying it was merely responding to members wanting to know which individuals and corporations opposed the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment on the right to bear arms.
But National Rifle Association Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre said of the list last week; "Our members don't want to buy their songs, don't want to go to their movies, don't want to support their careers." "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=583&ncid=583&e=4&u=/nm/20031029/od_nm/blacklist_dc

Typical of the racist NRA that they even lie about their blacklist being a blacklist...

Meanwhile more than 17,000 have joined in a little more than a week at
http://www.nrablacklist.com/petition.html

Join today.

[Oberst Klink]

13. Brady Campaign is Racist

Brady Campaign wants poor urban dwellers to be unarmed (ie. blacks). They even use the racist term "Saturday Night Specials"... code word to scare the surburban whites into disarming those pesky blacks:

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/gunlaws/saturday.asp

"What are "Saturday Night Specials" and "junk guns?"

Traditionally, "Saturday Night Specials" have been defined as non-sporting, low-quality handguns with a barrel length of under three inches (for pistols, overall length of under six inches). "Junk gun" is a more recent term used to describe handguns that lack essential safety features."

[MrBenchley]

15. Yeah, surrrrre....

That's why it gets all that support frrom folks like the Aryan Nations and KKK...oh wait, those racists all trrumpet this "gun rights horseshit.

"The so-called gun control bill enacted by the government is nothing but anti-self defense laws designed to disarm law abiding citizens. The right to own guns as guaranteed by the 2nd amendment to the United States Constitution must be protected. Gun ownership is NOT a privilege, it’s a CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT!!! The Texas Knights work to completely restore the right of all law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms."

http://www.texaskkk.com/platform.htm

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

29. Go ahead.....

I don't care how silly you want to look.

[pnb]

46. Well...

You're views also happened to be trumpeted by Adolf Hitler. According to your 'logic,' you can now be lumped in with him as well.

Your argument that something must be inherently wrong because some assholes like it carries no weight whatsoever.

[MrBenchley]

51. Yeah, surrrrrre.....

That's why the current day Nazis all OPPOSE gun control, isn't it?

[pnb]

78. hmm...

Your response is to just repeat yourself?

Oh well...

[MrBenchley]

16. Two Sixth Graders Arrested Bringing Gun To School (FL)

"Two sixth grade students at the Horizons Unlimited Academy -- a Duval County charter school on Norwood Avenue -- were arrested after they were caught with an unloaded gun on school grounds Tuesday morning.
School officials said the boys were bringing the gun to trade for a Game Boy. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031029/lo_wjxt/1851517

[MrBenchley]

17. SCHOOL SAFETY: More threats reported since Rocori (MN)

"After the shootings at Rocori High School in Cold Spring last month, school authorities knew they would face bogus or real threats at their own schools. Late last week, at least one threat prompted the arrest of a 15-year-old Mounds View High School girl.
"We took it very seriously,'' said Julie Wikelius, Mounds View principal. "We can no longer assume something is a prank. People need to feel safe."
In the weeks since the Rocori High shootings, threats have kept students home from Columbia Heights and Wayzata high schools, prompted more vigilant security in schools around Minnesota and quickened the responses of school leaders and law enforcement to any perceived threat."

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/news/local/7127718.htm

[CO Liberal]

19. Killed For Kindness

This is one of the root causes of violence that needs to be addressed. And all too often, domestic violence involves the use of a gun - Wayne

* * * * *

Killed For Kindness

Oct 28, 2003 10:43 am US/Mountain

MONROE, N.C. (CBS) According to domestic violence experts, the most dangerous time for a woman who is being physically abused is when she actually tries to leave the man who is abusing her.

That was the case in North Carolina for a woman who attempted to run from her husband. But as CBS News Correspondent Mark Strassmann reports, it was a friend who was trying to protect her who ended up paying the ultimate price.

Right in her own front yard on Oct. 18, Tracey Helms, the mother of two small children, was bludgeoned for her kindness. Another woman was afraid of her estranged husband. Helms took her in. And one night that husband, Michael Blount, surprised both women and allegedly beat Helms to death with a shovel.

Her husband, D.J. Helms, says, “It’s not fair at all. I don’t have a wife, and my kids don’t have a mother no more.”

<more>

http://news4colorado.com/topstories/topstories_story_301130549.html

[StClone]

27. I was looking for this... thanks

Potent.

Somewhere over 60% of all gun-domestic violence is by males that could otherwise be labeled "law-abiding citizens."

[MrBenchley]

31. Guns in the home escalate the problem

"In 2000, in homicides where the weapon was known, 50 percent (1,342 of 2,701) of female homicide victims were killed with a firearm. Of those female firearm homicides, 1,009 women (75 percent) were killed with a handgun.
More than five times as many women were murdered by an intimate acquaintance (605) than by a stranger (113) in the year 2000. Additionally, while firearm homicides involving male victims were mostly intra-gender, 95 percent of female firearm homicide victims were murdered by a male. "


http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/domviofs.htm

[Stilgar]

77. I trust the VPC like you trust the NRA

I also fail to see how bringing a gun would have escalated a death by shovel. If the friend had one, the newly widowed wife of the beater would have the house to herself now.

Now she has a jailed husband and a dead neighbor with a greaving husband. If you are running away and in need of protection, you actually need protection. She wasn't running away for the fun of it.

[Oberst Klink]

34. You Asked for it.....

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to posses arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." -Adolph Hitler 1938

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Oberst Klink]

36. Is this what you want for us?

German Firearms Act of 1937:
"No civilian is to have a firearm without a permit and permits will not be issued to suspected of acting against the state. For Jews this permission will not be granted. Those people who do not require permission to purchase or carry weapons the whole SS and SA, including the Death's Head group and officers of the Hitler Youth."

[Oberst Klink]

37. Another gun control proponent (just like you): Toyotomi Hideyoshi

Shogun Toyotomi Hideyoshi:
"The people of the various provinces are strictly forbidden to have in their possession any swords, bows, spears, firearms, or other types of arms. The possession of these elements makes difficult the collection of taxes and dues, and tends to permit uprising. Therefore, the heads of provinces, official agents, and deputies are ordered to collect all weapons mentioned above and turn them over to the government." Royal Decree, August 29, 1558

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

39. Gee, why are we not surprised

Someone calling himself Oberst Klink can quote Hitler at the drop of a hat?

[CO Liberal]

41. He Probably Bought a Book of Nazi Quotations.....

....at the last gun show he attended.

:-)

[MrBenchley]

48. They're easy to come by there

along with anti-holocaust propaganda and hate literature

[DoNotRefill]

75. I've been to a fair number of gun shows....

and have NEVER seen anti-holocaust propaganda there. EVER. As for "hate literature", I guess that'd depend on your definition of "hate literature", wouldn't it? And are you saying that the Freedom of Speech is a BAD thing? What's next? MrBenchley as Censorship Fuhrer? "you can't have THOSE books!!!"

Unfortunately, I think he might actually revel in such power...

[MrBenchley]

76. Yeah, surrrrrrrrre....

I doubt many Democrats are racked with doubt as to what hate literature is...and they can find plenty at just about every gun show.

"And are you saying that the Freedom of Speech is a BAD thing? What's next?"
Probably another barrage of right wing nutcase propaganda from Sierra Times or WorldNutDaily by the RKBA crowd....you guys seem to wallow in that.

[Oberst Klink]

42. You are unable to address the fact

that you share the same political objectives as these imfamous gun grabbers.

Again, I ask: do you want my guns or do you want to win elections?

From your posts above, it seems clear that gun control is paramont to winning elections.

[CO Liberal]

43. And YOU Seem Unable to Grasp the Fact.....

...that the "Guns in the News" threads are intended for current news stories and opinion pieces.

Please read the guidelines in the post at the beginning of this thread.

[Oberst Klink]

44. And you said "Go ahead"

to my offer to post quotes from Hitler.

I think the Gun issue is dead. The AW ban will be allowed to die.

You are on the wrong side of history.

Bye.

[CO Liberal]

45. Your Posts Are Totally Inappropriate In This Thread

And I find your position totally illogical.

Just MHO.

[CO Liberal]

47. Please Provide Some Insight Into How Your Mind Works

These are the guidelines from the original message:

1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted to the 'Net within the past 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. (On Mondays, stories that were originally posted to the 'Net over the weekend - Friday night through Sunday - are considered current. This allows for the fact than amny people are off-line over the weekend, allowing the Monday thread to be a weekend summary.)

2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories are welcome in this thread, as well as gun-related editorials, as long as they're current. Please do not post links from a few years back that support your position.

3 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.

4 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.

5 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.

Just WHERE in the above guidelines do you see something that told you to go ahead and post quotes from dead Nazis in this thread????

ON EDIT - The "Go Ahead" thread was posted by MrBenchley, not me. Please try to keep track of who you're responding to........

[MrBenchley]

49. And now I'm laughing my ass off

[MrBenchley]

53. Man On Bicycle Sought In East Side Shooting (MO)

"Police are looking for a man who fled an east side neighborhood on a bicycle after a shooting Wednesday.
A 23-year-old man was found in the 1300 block of East Armour suffering from several gunshot wounds. Investigators said that the victim had been arguing with the shooter when he was shot."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031029/lo_kmbc/1852683

[DoNotRefill]

56. "Guidelines", CO, "Guidelines"....

NOT rules handed down by admin...or are you now claiming THAT right, too?

[CO Liberal]

57. No, I'm Not Claiming That Right

But the main reason we started doing these "GITN" threads was that a few pro-gunners were bitching and moaning about all the gun usage threads clogging up the board. And the "GITN" threads have been working quite well, if I sa so myself.

As far as I'm concerned, Oberst Klink's postings of Nazi quotes in an attempt to paing pro-control people as Nazis, is ill-advised, immature, and totally counterproductive.

[DoNotRefill]

58. I don't think he's painting you as Nazis...

he's simply pointing out the similarities in some of your positions.

BTW, you DO realize that disarming the non-germans was an absolutely VITAL part of the Nazi plan for the Holocaust, don't you? Or have you forgotten Warsaw?

[MrBenchley]

60. Motel Owner Finds Man Dead In Parking Lot (TX)

"A man was reportedly shot and killed Wednesday morning outside a northeast Houston motel.
Houston police received a call around 6:45 a.m. from the owner of the Knoxwood Motel in the 8800 block of Knoxwood.
The owner told police that she heard five to six gunshots and a car speed away from the motel around 5:30 a.m. She said she fell to the ground, afraid of being shot, and did not leave the office until after the sun came up."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=320&ncid=320&e=5&u=/ibsys/20031029/lo_kprc/1852200

[Withergyld]

63. I don't see how it is any different then

what is posted by certain pro-control posters who try to equate ani-control people as racists, Nazis etc.
:hi:

[CO Liberal]

66. Answer Me This, Withergyld

How many times have you seen Nazi paraphenalia for sale at a gun control rally? And how often do you see it for sale at a gun show?

I rest my case.......

[Withergyld]

68. I have never seen Nazi

memorabilia for sale at a gunshow.

[DoNotRefill]

69. they stick with some of the Nazi ideas....

like keeping guns out of the "wrong hands (read "untermenschen") and use them to raise money. The gun control folks don't "sell" anything.

I know a guy that sells nazi stuff at gun shows (along with other stuff from the time period and WWI, like "trench art", nifty stuff made out of the debris of war, generally spent shell casings). He's not a Nazi. He buys the stuff from veterans and the families of veterans, who got it when they took it off of captured or dead Nazis during the war. His father fought in WWII (in the Pacific theater) and he's a decorated American Viet-Nam era veteran.

I know a guy who collects Nazi stuff. He started collecting it in 1944. He's a WWII paratrooper veteran that jumped into Normandy, and was eventually shot and seriously wounded by a Nazi at Aachen. He's not a Nazi either. He once showed me his collection. Some of the stories about how he got them are truly chilling, and there's NOTHING about him or his collection that would make ANYBODY think he's a Nazi sympathizer or into glorifying Naziism. BTW, even though he's ancient, if you were to accuse him in person of being a Nazi or glorifying Naziism, he'd probably kick your ass. He's one TOUGH old bastard. And I GUARANTEE you that he KILLED more Nazis than you've ever seen in person.

[CO Liberal]

70. I See Very Few Nazis in Person....

...because I don't go to gun shows.

[MrBenchley]

71. You mean besides actually referring to people in THIS century?

"who try to equate ani-control people as racists, Nazis etc."
Pretty successful try...as the screams of rage indicate.

[DoNotRefill]

55. Where did he quote Hitler?

"Those that refuse to remember history are doomed to repeat it."

[MrBenchley]

59. Post 34

There's a little number in the right hand corner of the post that you responded to that will tell you that.

The actual quote by Santayana is "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. "

Here's another quote, since you asked so nicely:

"If she doesn't know what to expect, a woman's trip to her first gun show can make her somewhat testy. This weekend's extravaganza at Cashman Center served as an eye-opening immersion in the world of freedom-loving, government-challenging, large-belt-buckle-wearing white men who love their guns. It's a place where animal pelts serve as tablecloths, surgical tools and toothbrushes share tables with firearms, and jerky passes as food. There are big guns, little guns, fake guns, water guns. There are pipes to clean guns, cloths to shine guns, holsters for holding guns and bullets to load guns. Not to mention the top guns dealing in firearms. The Southern drawls pushing assault rifles to you can be unsettling, and it helps a girl to be prepared. Some tips:
Mask any surprise or disbelief. This will serve you particularly well when you're looking over some of the tables dotted with Swastika patches and white supremacist offerings, like The Turner Diaries and literature that denies the Holocaust. "

--Kate Silver

[Withergyld]

64. she forgot to mention

all the beanie baby vendors.

[CO Liberal]

65. Refer to His Post #34

[DoNotRefill]

67. Sorry...I was looking at the Oberfuhrer post...

which wasn't made by Hitler, but instead by....the Oberfuhrer.

[MrBenchley]

40. Durst Accused of Murder to Steal ID (TX)

"GALVESTON, Texas - When attempts to hide by impersonating a mute woman didn't work, prosecutors say New York millionaire Robert Durst killed his 71-year-old neighbor to steal his identity.
Durst spent his last day on the witness stand Tuesday denying he meant to kill Morris Black and maintaining Black was shot accidentally as the two struggled for a gun. He has admitted dismembering the body and dumping it in Galveston Bay.
"You became Morris Black after he was dumped in the bay," prosecutor Joel Bennett said. "You impersonated Morris Black, didn't you?"
Durst acknowledged using Black's driver's license and Medicare card to rent cars in Mobile, Ala., and New Orleans after fleeing authorities following his arrest and release on bond."

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/news/breaking_news/7126927.htm

[MrBenchley]

50. Customer Dies In Plumbing Store Robbery (MI)

"A customer at Tenny Plumbing -- located in the 1500 block of Eight Mile near the Interstate 75 interchange -- was fatally shot in the face during a robbery around 4:15 p.m., according to police.
Two gunmen snuck in through the back door of the store and locked up employees in a restroom, Local 4 reported. A customer walked in, and the robbers killed him, the station reported.
The robbers then fled the scene on foot, according to police. The men reportedly took several items including a safe from the store."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031029/lo_wdiv/1851251

[MrBenchley]

52. Police: Driver Shot During Confrontation In Street (MO)

"The incident occurred at 29th and Olive streets. Police said a man was in a pickup truck with his wife and a child when the man stopped to talk with someone in the street. The two men began arguing, and the driver was shot several times, officers said."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031029/lo_kmbc/1851243

[MrBenchley]

54. Wheeler due to be released today (MD)

Yeah, this is the sort of guy Democrats should be pandering to...NOT!! <sarcasm>If only we'd let public safety go to hell and let the corrupt gun industry do whatever they want, maybe this thug would vote Democratic....</sarcasm>

"An alleged member of a white supremacist group who is accused of having 80 pounds of gunpowder improperly stored in his Southeast Baltimore rowhouse is expected to plead guilty today in city Circuit Court to misdemeanor charges and then go home, his lawyer said.
Police said they raided the house in the 500 block of S. East Ave. after receiving a tip that Wheeler - who investigators said is a member of the neo-Nazi group National Alliance - was making weapons in his basement. The FBI said last year that the National Alliance was "a continuing terrorist threat."
Wheeler has denied allegations that he belonged to the National Alliance, although his wife, Elizabeth, is a member and hosts an Internet radio show called Grandmother Elizabeth's Reading Hour for White Children.
He was arrested after detectives and federal agents searched his Highlandtown house and found about 80 pounds of improperly stored gunpowder, 14 rifles, eight handguns, about 100 other firearms in various stages of assembly and thousands of rounds of ammunition. The gunpowder was stored in bleach bottles, antifreeze bottles and paint-thinner cans."

http://www.sunspot.net/news/yahoo/bal-md.wheeler29oct29,0,7474649.story

[MrBenchley]

61. Teenager Shot And Killed In Midwest City (OK)

"Police are investigating after an 18-year-old man was shot and killed Tuesday night in Midwest City.
The three witnesses were taken into custody for questioning and the weapon that was believed to be used in the shooting, a semiautomatic pistol, was recovered."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031029/lo_koco/1851566

[MrBenchley]

62. Lawyers Appointed in Baylor Shooting Case

"WACO, Texas - Two attorneys were appointed to represent Carlton Dotson on murder charges in the shooting death of former Baylor basketball teammate Patrick Dennehy.
Dotson, 21, made his first court appearance in Texas on Wednesday, a day after being extradited from Maryland.
Dotson was indicted in August in the slaying of Dennehy, 21, who was missing for six weeks before his body was found July 25 near a rock quarry outside Waco. Dennehy, who had shared an apartment with Dotson, was shot twice in the head."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031029/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bkc_baylor_player_death_1

[MrBenchley]

72. In sniper trial, prayers, calls for help, car sightings

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. - On the day after five people were killed by sniper fire in Maryland and Washington, D.C., Caroline Seawell went shopping for Halloween decorations. She had just loaded a scarecrow and a wreath into her minivan outside a crafts store when pain suddenly shot through her back.
Even though the bullet severely damaged her liver and lungs before exiting under her right breast and plunging into her car, Seawell, a mother of two, survived the attack at a Michael's parking lot in Fredericksburg, Va. She showed no aftereffects of the attack as she strode to the witness stand yesterday, one of the few survivors of the sniper attacks, though she testified that her body still contained bullet fragments.
Prosecutors have said they will present ballistics evidence that will connect the bullet that hit Seawell with a rifle found under the back seat of John Allen Muhammad's car when he was arrested on Oct. 24 last year. Seawell's shooting was one of 13 last October that have been linked to Muhammad, 42, and teen-ager Lee Boyd Malvo.

http://www.sunspot.net/news/yahoo/bal-te.md.sniper29oct29,0,6398526.story

Of course, if the GOP and the corrupt gun industry have their way, there'll be no way for the victims to sue the crooked gun shop that let that rifle walk out the door with a madman....

[MrBenchley]

73. Man Shot, Killed In Front Of Boca Raton Deli

"A man was shot and killed in front of a Boca Raton Plaza deli Tuesday morning, possibly the result of a bad business partnership, police said.
According to witnesses, victim John Gurino, 48, appeared to be looking for someone at a closed restaurant. He reportedly pounded on the glass front of the building before being allowed to enter.
Witnesses said gunfire, possibly as many as four shots, erupted around 20 minutes later and Gurino came flying through the glass. One shot reportedly missed Gurino and landed across a crowded shopping center."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=308&ncid=308&e=2&u=/ibsys/20031029/lo_wpbf/1852709

[MrBenchley]

74. Calif. Fires Kill 16, Char 1,600 Homes

Another fine responsible gun owner and hunting enthusiast makes the headlines...At least he didn't shoot himself or others...

"SAN DIEGO - Tens of thousands of people fled mountain communities in San Diego and San Bernardino counties Tuesday and caused a traffic jam on a narrow mountain highway as frantic residents raced to avoid California's deadliest wildfires in more than a decade.
Frustrated firefighters said there was little they could do to stop the flames, and exhausted crews in San Diego County were pulled back even though two devastating blazes began merging into a super fire near Julian, a mountain town of 3,500 known for its apple crop.
To the north, about 80,000 full-time residents have been evacuated from the San Bernardino mountains since Saturday. Tens of thousands fled on Tuesday alone.
Authorities believe the largest, nicknamed the Cedar Fire, was set by a lost hunter trying to signal rescuers. The state forestry department issued Sergio Martinez, 33, a misdemeanor citation for setting an unauthorized fire. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031029/ap_on_re_us/california_wildfires_137

<sarcasm>Wonder if he got a trophy for his mantlepiece?</sarcasm>