Even More Voices For Gun Control

[MrBenchley]

We've seen the sort of ugly racist scum (Lott, Hatch, Nugent, Pratt, etc.) who push the dishonest "gun rights" agenda...

Here's more on the courageous decent Americans pushing for gun control.

[MrBenchley]

1. Chris Van Hollen

"Chris Van Hollen was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives from Maryland's 8th District in November 2002. Van Hollen serves on the Committee for Education and the Workforce and the Committee on Government Reform. He is also the Vice Chair of the Renewable Energy and Energy Efficiency Caucus.
Prior to his election to Congress, Van Hollen served in the Maryland General Assembly from 1991 to 2002-fours years in the House of Delegates and eight years in the State Senate where he was Vice Chair of the Budget and Taxation Committee and Chair of the Health and Human Services Subcommittee. During his service in the Maryland legislature, he authored landmark education funding legislation, the Patient Protection Act, the Clean Energy Incentives Act, the Chesapeake Bay Protection Act and was a key Senate leader in the passage of Maryland's gun safety law. For his broad-ranging legislative achievements, The Washington Post called Van Hollen, "One of the most accomplished members of the General Assembly."

And he's for gun control.

[MrBenchley]

2. Ed Towns

"Edolphus "Ed" Towns is currently serving his tenth term in the U.S House of Representatives.  He represents the tenth Congressional District of Brooklyn, New York, encompassing the neighborhoods of East New York, Canarsie, Brownsville, Bedford-Stuyvesant, Cypress Hills, Clinton Hill, Mill Basin, Midwood, downtown Brooklyn, Boreum Hill, as well as parts of Fort Greene and Williamsburg.

Representative Towns is a member of the exclusive Energy and Commerce Committee where he is on the Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection Subcommittee, the Health Subcommittee, and the Telecommunications and the Internet Subcommittee.  Through his committee appointments, Rep. Towns has worked to enhance consumers' privacy protections on the Internet, develop innovative initiatives to reduce asthma, and bridge the digital divide.  He also serves on the Government Reform Committee's Subcommittee On Government Efficiency and Financial Management where he is the Ranking Member.

Throughout his tenure in Congress, Rep. Towns' legislative work in education, telecommunications, healthcare, financial services and the environment has earned him numerous awards.  Some of his legislative successes include: the "Student Right to Know Act", a law to mandate the reporting of student athletes graduation rates; new bilingual education programs for the gifted and talented, teacher training and special education; enhanced Medicare reimbursement rates for mid-level practitioners; establishing a Federal-funding base for poison control centers; initiating new standards for the inclusion of children in clinical trials; creating the Telecommunications Development Fund to provide capital for small and minority telecommunications businesses.

In the environmental area, Rep. Towns continues to be committed to protecting our national parks and creating open space throughout Brooklyn, including the Brooklyn Bridge Park project of which he was an original incorporator.  He has also worked to preserve and restore ecologically sensitive estuaries and coastal areas.  In addition, the National Audubon Society recognized the Congressman for his leadership in securing federal funds for restoration activities in Prospect Park.  Rep. Towns has brought important economic development projects to the 10th Congressional District as well

Representative Towns had the distinction of being the first African American to serve as Deputy Brooklyn Borough President.  Additionally, he and his son, NYS Assemblyman Darryl Towns, became the first African American father/son tandem to serve simultaneously in public office in New York State.  Rep. Towns' varied professional background includes assignments as an administrator at Beth Israel Medical Center, a professor at New York's Medgar Evers College and Fordham University and a teacher in the New York City Public School System.  He is also a veteran of the United States Army and an ordained Baptist minister."

And he's for gun control....

[el_gato]

3. how long before Mr. Benchley uses the word "pantload"

in response to someone who disagrees with him?

[Booger]

4. is it possible

to find a really big version of the word "pantload" so as to cut-n-paste it?

[MrBenchley]

6. It would save time

That way we wouldn't have to wade through all the distortions, hysteria and other gibberish posted by the RKBA crowd.

Just post the word "pantload" in really big letters. It will have the same content as most RKBA posts.

[Booger]

7. ah, we speak to each other.

So, what's the low down?
Is it an ongoing debate about the 2nd amendment?
In which case, uh, I'll go clean my gun. Don't wanna debate.

If it's the mindset of people who want to have their legal guns vs. people who want to make them illegal, then I'll be a part of it.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

27. It only took as long

as it took someone to deliver a steaming pantload.

[Character Assassin]

35. That would have been when you created this thread

The more things change.....

[MrBenchley]

36. Not even close to true

How tragic for you that your side is represented by racists and asswipes like Ted Nugent and Larry Pratt.

[Character Assassin]

56. Utterly, completely true.

My side isn't represented either by those two loons or loons of your particular type of asswipe, racist pathology. How tragic that in your bifurcated world, there are no shadings of gray.

But thanks for asking.

[1a2b3c]

63. Damn

Just had to say that that was a good post.

[MrBenchley]

65. Yeah, but the rest of us consider the source.....

[MrBenchley]

37. By the way

Amazing how many essentially contentless posts the RKBA crowd is generating here....guess they don't like Democrats seeing that so many fellow Democrats support gun control and other progressive issues of interest to concerned voters...

[MrBenchley]

8. Hillary Rodham Clinton

"

Privacy Policy
About Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton

Hillary Rodham Clinton was elected United States Senator from New York on November 7, 2000. She is the first First Lady elected to the United States Senate. After two years in the Senate, Senator Clinton has graduated from the freshman class where she worked in a bipartisan way to get legislation passed, traveled to every corner of New York State, secured millions in appropriations and built a strong and effective constituent service operation. Senator Clinton serves on the Senate Committees for Environment and Public Works; Health, Education, Labor and Pensions; and was recently appointed to the Senate Armed Services Committee. She is the first New Yorker to serve on this committee.

During the 107th Congress, Senator Clinton worked to make the extension of Unemployment Insurance a national priority; supported the 2002 Farm Bill that helped New York's $3.4 billion agriculture industry; hosted the first Broadband Conference in Upstate New York to encourage improved broadband access; brought the Dublin, Ireland, Chamber of Commerce to Buffalo; introduced legislation to rebuild our schools; championed a block grant to provide direct funding for our first responders; worked to reinstate the "Pediatric Rule" so that all medicines and vaccines are safe for children; and introduced legislation to strengthen the Upstate economy. In the 108th Congress, national security, homeland security and economic security remain at the top of the Senator's legislative agenda.

To meet the great challenge of helping New York recover from the terrorist attacks, Senator Clinton worked to secure $21.4 billion in funding for clean up and recovery, to provide health tracking for first responders and volunteers who worked at Ground Zero, and grants for small businesses. Rebuilding and securing additional resources remains a priority for Senator Clinton in the 108th Congress.

Senator Clinton is recognized around the world as an advocate for democracy, religious tolerance and human rights, and as a champion for women and girls, emphasizing access to education, economic opportunity, family planning and women's rights to make their own decisions on reproductive health. "

And she's for gun control.

[Old and In the Way]

12. What's wrong with gun control?

Seems to me those that hunt have plenty of weapons to choose from. I don't see where handguns and AK-47's are neceassary for those that enjoy killing defenseless animals. And those that fear people breaking into their homes, no one's taking your shotgun away. The problem is that handguns are cheap and easily concealed and semi-automatics/automatics where 15-20 people can be taken out before the killer is stopped.

NRA is playing devisive politics; I don't understand why they hate America so much, I really don't....sad that so many moderates choose to be associated with this lunatic fringe group.

[MrBenchley]

14. Nothing's wrong with gun control

"sad that so many moderates choose to be associated with this lunatic fringe group."
You got that right.

[Valarauko]

26. Everything

It's the biggest legislative mistake of the Western World (except the Drug War of course).

[1a2b3c]

64. Dont remember reading about hunting

As the only reason for the RKBA in the second amendment. semi-automatics/automatics where 15-20 people can be taken out before the killer is stopped. Wouldnt this be USEFULL for a militia member who was fighting in some sort of war?

[RoeBear]

9. You're point is that the Democrats...

...are the good guys. Well duh!

My point is that there would be more good guys in office if they would get off the gun control band wagon. It's costing us votes.

[MrBenchley]

11. You keep pretending that, roe....

And I'll keep pointing out what scummy thugs infest the "gun rights" crowd.

"It's costing us votes."
Only the votes we'd never get.

[RoeBear]

16. It DOES cost us votes...

...and it polarizes the other side into going out and voting on election day. And that costs us elections.

[MrBenchley]

22. But only the votes we wouldn't get anyway

Even the DLC survey the RKBA crowd was waving around like a bloody shirt the other day shows eight out of ten voters want gun control. And only two out of ten are consumed by Nugent and AshKKKroft's "gun rights" horseshit.

[MrBenchley]

13. Jan Schakowsky

"Jan Schakowsky was elected to represent Illinois’ 9th Congressional District on November 3, 1998, after serving for eight years in the Illinois State Assembly. 

Schakowsky, who serves on the House Democratic Leadership team as Chief Deputy Whip, is a member of the Energy and Commerce Committee, where she will work to accomplish her top priority in Congress -- providing universal healthcare coverage for all Americans.

A citizen advocate, grassroots organizer, and elected public official, Schakowsky has fought throughout her career for economic and social justice and improved quality of life for all; for an end to violence against women; and for a national investment in healthcare, public education and housing needs.

In the House, Schakowsky has won major legislative victories to increase federal assistance for abused women and children and to protect the rights of battered immigrant women; to reform election laws guaranteeing that no registered voter is turned away at the poll; to expand housing opportunities for low-income people; and to assist small business owners and farmers.

A longtime consumer advocate, who in 1969 led the fight that put freshness dates on products sold in the supermarket, Schakowsky carries on that tradition in Congress with efforts to safeguard the rights of victims of identity theft and to protect consumers from predatory lenders.  A champion for the nation’s seniors, Schakowsky is actively engaged in the campaign for seniors and persons with disabilities to access affordable prescription drugs.  Schakowsky is also working to ensure that seniors receive quality home, hospice, and nursing care.

Schakowsky is an active member of the Congressional Human Rights Caucus and is a champion of expanding our nation’s hate crime laws.  "

And she's for gun control.

[MrBenchley]

15. Bob Menendez

"Through a decade in the U.S. House of Representatives, Congressman Bob Menendez, who represents New Jersey's 13th Congressional District along the Hudson River and overlooking the Statue of Liberty, has made a stellar and rapid rise to the highest levels of influence in the U.S. House, and the highest levels of prominence in American political life. Today, Bob Menendez is the Chairman of the Democratic Caucus, elected by his colleagues on November 14, 2002.
In that post, Bob Menendez is the 3rd-ranking Democrat in the U.S. House, the highest ranking Hispanic in Congressional history, and the only Hispanic ever elected to a leadership position, in either chamber, by either party. In addition to being the first Democratic House Member from New Jersey elected to a Leadership post, he is also the youngest member of the elected Democratic Leadership. Previously, Menendez served two consecutive terms as the Vice Chairman of the Democratic Caucus.
Internationally, Bob Menendez is a vocal advocate for human rights. For his tireless work in this area, he was awarded the prestigious Ellis Island Medal of Honor in 1998. He currently serves as the Ranking Democratic Member of the Western Hemisphere Subcommittee of the House International Relations Committee, where he continues that work.
As a senior Member of the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, he has been one of the leading proponents in Congress for investing in our transportation hubs, infrastructure, and ports as a means to expand commerce and create jobs. In particular, the Congressman's work has been widely credited with keeping shipping business in the United States at a time of increased competition from Canadian ports. "

And he's for gun control.

[BullDozer]

17. Not right all the time

Mr Benchleys examples and their ACLU rating from the current 4 issue scorecard

1 - Abortion Ban
2 - Government Surveillance Powers
3 - Ban on Raves
4 - Reporting on Guantanamo Bay Detainees


Hillary Rodham Clinton 25%

Mr Benchleys examples and their ACLU rating from the current 5 issue scorecard

1 - Religious Discrimination
2 - Flag Desecration Constitutional Amendment
3 - School Vouchers
4 - Ban on Raves
5 - Abortion Ban


Chris Van Hollen 80%
Ed Towns 75% with one did not vote.
Janice Schakowsky 80%
Robert Menendez 60%

Looks like the ACLU isn't totally happy with everyone you want to put on a pedestal now are they? I've told you before that the D after someone's name does not provide invulnerability from criticism.

It sure would be nice if you actualy provided something detailing their actions to advance their view of gun control rather than just your claim that they support gun control.

[MrBenchley]

23. The ACLU is on that NRA "enemy list" you were defending

so vehemently the other day...so pardon me if I take your sudden roar of concern for what the ACLU thinks as the steaming pantload it is.

"It sure would be nice if you actualy provided something detailing their actions to advance their view of gun control rather than just your claim that they support gun control. "
It sure would be nice if the leadership of the TWO LARGEST GUN OWNER GROUPS weren't racist pieces of shit. But they are.

[BullDozer]

51. See if you can follow along

and see the fallacy of your attempt.

What I see as your implication in these semi-plagurized posts is that if all of these "decent honest progressive people" are supposed to be so damn right about everything they do, when in fact just by using the ACLU scorecard information it shows that they don't agree with each other on everything and that means some of them are definitely wrong. Your argument falls flat on it's face. With it being the case that there is a total lack of perfection in your hand picked examples then by extension they can be wrong about their progun control position. If any of them even have one because if they are progun control, as you claim you haven't shown any activities on their part to further that cause nor have you shown what their idea of gun control is purported to be. Is it being able to hit your target or ban all the guns now?

Damn straight I defended the right of an advocacy group to produce and maintain a list of individuals and groups that are in opposition to that groups position. Only morons stuffed with vitriol try to spin it off as an enemies list. The NRAs list is no more of an "enemies list" than the NAACPs Economic Reciprocity Initiative is, with it's tag line of "SUPPORT COMPANIES THAT SUPPORT YOU!"

Stuff your racist claim where the sun doesn't shine, it's old, it's tired, it's worn, and it's bullshit. You never have even come close to proving that the NRA or the GOA are as organizations racists.

It's also so nice of you to compile a list of alleged pro-gun control Democrats so that any fence-sitters can be easily swayed to vote for a republican who they think is not progun control. I bet those republican strategists just love you.

[MrBenchley]

59. Dozer, go piss and moan to someone who cares

I'm not a damn bit interested in debating any defense of the NRA's ugly stupidity.

"Damn straight I defended the right of an advocacy group to produce and maintain a list of individuals and groups that are in opposition to that groups position."
And one of the scummiest grroups around, too. Its board is stuffed with racist asswipes, it panders to the worst crazies in America, and every public position it takes is based on lies.

"You never have even come close to proving that the NRA or the GOA are as organizations racists.You never have even come close to proving that the NRA or the GOA are as organizations racists."
The hell I haven't.

"I bet those republican strategists just love you."
Jeeze, it's the RKBA crowd openly pushing the Republican position, dozer. And it's the RKBA crowd posting the scummiest right wing sources and expecting them to be taken seriously.

[hansberrym]

18. Why argure apples vs. oranges?

(quote)
We've seen the sort of ugly racist scum (Lott, Hatch, Nugent, Pratt, etc.) who push the dishonest "GUN RIGHTS" agenda...

Here's more on the courageous decent Americans pushing for GUN CONTROL. (my emphasis added)
(Unquote)


A slightly more meaningful comparison might compare apples to apples. A comparison between those people who support gun rights vs. those who oppose gun rights, or a comparison between those who support more gun control vs. those who support less, would make more sense.

It should be obvious that the positions that you have chosen to address are not mutually exclusive. Many of those good people that you say support gun control might also be supporters of the RKBA.

For myself, I do not think additional gun control laws are needed, but then there are none that I can think off the top of my head that ought to be repealed. My disagreement is with those who deny
that there is any individual right to own arms(including guns).
That position is not consistent with an honest appraisal of the language and legislative history of the second amendment, nor would I consider it a progressive idea to prevent individual citizens from owning arms to defend themselves and to defend the country if the need ever arises.

The arguments made by the Ninth Circuit regarding gun rights can only be described as intellectually dishonest. The term "bearing arms" was used during the actual drafting of the amendment and during the ratification debates in reference to an individual person's action (as opposed to a group or a state action). Also the word "keep" strongly suggests a individual's action. Note that the Virginia Militia Act of 1785 (referenced in US v. Miller) required each person of a certain age to "keep" a supply of arms.

The lack of conditionals (if/then, when, only) in the amendment would seem to preclude the extremely narrow reading that the Ninth Circuit proposes. Furthermore there are no qualifiers that would limit the meaning of the words "people" or "arms" in the actual text of the amendment. The qualifier that the Ninth Circuit attempts to insert by repeatedly placing the word "state" in front of "milita", so as to give a very different meaning to that term than the Supreme Court expressed in US v. Miller, would be laughable in a high school essay, but it is downright frightening when a Federal Circuit Court of Appeals tries to literally re-write history.

[Old and In the Way]

19. Just wondering.

If the founding fathers were writing the constitution today, do you think that they'd have tempered their zeal somewhat to compensate for the technical advancement of weapon technology?

If I recall, gun's were muskets back then. I don't recall ever reading about a person going berserk back then and killing 20-30 people with a musket.

So where do you draw the line? What is "reasonable" in terms of ordinance?....For some, reasonable might be owning an M-60 Machine gun, others an M-155 howitzer.

[Muddleoftheroad]

20. Where do you draw the line?

with freedom of speech? Also protected by the same document. It gets drawn somewhat haphazardly, but we don't throw away the right just because now some moron can use it to find bomb info or ways to make a nerve gas.

[hansberrym]

21. Don't know, but...

(quote)
If the founding fathers were writing the constitution today, do you think that they'd have tempered their zeal somewhat to compensate for the technical advancement of weapon technology?
(end quote)

...many States adopted Right to Bear amendments to their state constitutions long after the mass production and distribution of rapid fire rifles and pistols. So at least the drafters of those state constitutional clauses did not temper or back away from what you regard as the zeal of the founders regarding the Second Amendment.

A good exercise is too read the various RKBA clauses of each state, there are only a handful of states that do not recognize an individual right.

I don't know enough about ordinance to give you a good answer to your other question "where to draw the line?".

My reason for writing here is with judges and "scholars" who would re-write history to suit thier own agenda. To me, that is a greater threat to the country than if my neighbor owns a gun with a clip capable of holding 10, or 12, or 15 bullets. Sure there has to be a limit somewhere, but placing reasonable limits (just as is done with all other rights) is not the same as denying that a particular right exists at all.

[Valarauko]

24. LOL!

"Many of those good people that you say support gun control might also be supporters of the RKBA."

ROFLMAO!

[MrBenchley]

25. So who's stopping you?

"For myself, I do not think additional gun control laws are needed"
Then make the case. But I do, and I'm going to argue my side.....and that includes pointing out what sort of racist corrupt right wing pieces of shit are trying to peddle this bogus "gun rights" argument, and how many decent honest progressive people are working for gun control.

[Romulus]

34. blahblah

But I do, and I'm going to argue my side.....and that includes pointing out what sort of racist corrupt right wing pieces of shit are trying to peddle this bogus "gun rights" argument, and how many decent honest progressive people are working for gun control.

And I pointed out many times before how that crowd opposes the Patriot Act. SFW? Just because that crowd opposes the Patriot Act, we're supposed to rush out and push for MORE Patriot Act laws? :eyes:

[MrBenchley]

39. Barney Frank

Barney Frank has been in Congress since 1981.  He is the Senior Democrat on the Financial Services Committee and is also a member of the Select Committee on Homeland Security where he serves on the Subcommittee on Infrastructure and Border Security and the Subcommittee on Intelligence and Counterterrorism .  Previously he was a Massachusetts State Representative and an assistant to the Mayor of Boston.   He has also taught at several Boston area universities.

Frank serves on the House Judiciary Committee and in late 1998, he stood by President Clinton's side, arguing that the House should censure Clinton, rather than impeach him. Frank has supported a woman's right to an abortion and opposed the death penalty. The liberal Americans for Democratic Action gave Frank's 1999 voting record a perfect score of 100 points; the American Conservative Union gave him zero.

And he's for gun control...

[hansberrym]

52. Again, "Gun rights" and "gun control" are not

mutually exclusive. Why do you employ a false dichotomy?

[MrBenchley]

28. Tom Lantos

"An American by choice, Tom Lantos was born in Budapest, Hungary, on February 1, 1928. He was 16 years old when Nazi Germany occupied his native country. As a teenager, he was a member of the anti-Nazi underground and later of the anti-Communist student movement. He is the only holocaust survivor ever elected to Congress. Tom was awarded an academic scholarship to study in the United States, and he arrived here in 1947. He received a B.A. and M.A. in Economics from the University of Washington in Seattle and later earned a Ph.D. in Economics from the University of California, Berkeley.

For three decades before his election to Congress (1950-1980), Tom Lantos was a professor of economics, an international affairs analyst for public television, and a consultant to a number of businesses. He also served in senior advisory roles to members of the United States Senate.

Since his election to the House of Representatives, Tom Lantos has worked diligently to address quality of life issues in Bay Area communities. He has a strong record on environment protection and has fought for reform of our nation's energy policy. As a former Professor and Chairman of the Millbrae Board of Education, Tom has been a consistent supporter of public education. Tom led a major investigation of waste, fraud, abuse, and mismanagement at the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and he has been a leader in Congressional oversight over Federal government programs. As the Ranking Democratic member of the House International Relations Committee Tom Lantos is a strong voice for responsible international involvement, and advocate for participation in international organizations, and particularly for Human Rights. In 1983 he was the founder of the Congressional Human Rights Caucus, and he continues to serve as its Co-Chairman. "

http://www.house.gov/lantos/about.html

And he's for gun control.

[MrBenchley]

29. Stephanie Tubbs Jones

"Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones, now serving her third term, is the first African-American woman elected to the United States House of Representative from the great State of Ohio. Congresswoman Jones is a lifelong resident of the 11th District, which encompasses the East Side of Cleveland and includes parts of 16 municipalities.
The Congresswoman, a strong advocate for many issues, has championed wealth building and economic development, access and delivery of health care, and quality education for all children. Her Committee assignments include being the first African-American woman to serve on the Ways and Means and Standards of Official Conduct (Ethics). She is an active Member of the Congressional Black Caucus and chairs its Housing Task Force.
During her first term, Congresswoman Tubbs Jones secured passage of the Child Abuse Prevention and Enforcement (CAPE) Act, her first piece of legislation.
In the 107th Congress, Congresswoman Tubbs Jones introduced the Uterine Fibroids Research and Education Act of 2001, which increases funding for research on uterine fibroids and provides for enhanced public awareness of this condition. She also introduced the "Seed Act," a bill to provide funding for community development corporations, the Campus Fire Prevention Act, which provides money to equip college dorms, fraternities, and sororities with fire suppression devices, and legislation to help the steel industry. In addition, she is an original co-sponsor of a number of important pieces of legislation, including election reform measures.
Congresswoman Tubbs Jones is working vigorously to end the practice of predatory lending, support credit unions, protect America's steel industry, and aid small businesses. She is a friend of organized labor while maintaining a good relationship with the business community and defends a woman's right to choose.
Congresswoman Tubbs Jones has made a number of historic achievements in her distinguished career as a public servant. Prior to her election to the House, Congresswoman Tubbs Jones served as the first African-American and the first female Cuyahoga County, Ohio Prosecutor. She was the first African-American woman to sit on the Common Pleas bench in the State of Ohio and was a Municipal Court Judge in the City of Cleveland."

And she's for gun control...

[Muddleoftheroad]

30. I've seen vanity posts

But never vanity threads like this. It's almost a one-person post fest of people you like. Why not just finish up and e-mail the list to the NRA so they can add it to theirs.

[MrBenchley]

31. Cry me a frigging river...

I don't see any rules forcing you to look at the thread...

And I don't think the bigoted extremist turds that make up the NRA need any help finding decent citizens to hate.

[Muddleoftheroad]

38. Wow, "bigoted extremist turds"

Well, that's ALMOST a memorable insult for them.

I look at threads in DU. Call it a hobby. This thread is unique. Not really much debate. Mostly it's you posting bios of people you like because they agree with you.

Interesting.

[MrBenchley]

40. Yup...describes the "gun rights" voices to a "T"

"This thread is unique. Not really much debate. "
There was much the same thing when I was pointing out the sort of lying scumbags who peddle that bogus "gun rights" rubbish. Bitching and moaning but nothing to say on the ISSUES.

"Mostly it's you posting bios of people you like because they agree with you."
No, mostly it's me posting the names and biographies of those who work toward gun control...and the RKBA crowd pissing and moaning about it.

[Muddleoftheroad]

46. Neither pissing nor moaning

Even smart people like some of those you list can do stupid things.

It is sad you think gun rights are such garbage when you make such use of the 1st Amendment. I guess only part of the Constitution matters much to some.

[MrBenchley]

47. Who are you trying to kid

Pissing and moaning is EXACTLY what it is.

"It is sad you think gun rights are such garbage when you make such use of the 1st Amendment."
It is enev sadder that somebody calling themselves a Demcorat would align himself with the pack of lies being peddled by the administration doing more to destroy the actual Bill of Rights than any in history.

"I guess only part of the Constitution matters much to some."
Yeah, we see only half of the second amendment matters to the RKBA crowd...

[Muddleoftheroad]

48. I allign myself with the Constitution

And ALL of the amendments. I believe strongly in all of them.

I don't know what the hell you are talking about in your first graph. Big clue, you got the wrong guy.

Actually, the whole 2nd appeals to me, both parts. And, yes, two parts is the way I see it. That's what the commas do, they set it a apart. There are two separate issues in the 2nd -- militia AND the right to keep and bear arms.

[CO Liberal]

50. Personally, I Believe The First Clause Sets the Conditions For the Second

Meaning the Second Amendment is a collective right. As the ACLU maintains.

[hansberrym]

53. Since the first phrase is not written as a conditional,

a much more rational interpretation is that it is not a conditional.

Note that conditionals contain terms such as "if/then" , "when...", "only...", etc.


Nor do the terms "people" or "arms" have qualifiers attached to them.

[BullDozer]

55. Well that proves it

Personally, I Believe The First Clause Sets the Conditions For the Second

If so it would have said A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people militia to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. Yes?

However it doesn't say that it says the people.

Not to mention that there is the bogus claim that some people try to make that the National Guard is the militia when we have that little problem that the National Guard is really in fact a Federal force and that would mean that the second amendmant really means

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people government to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Say what? The government writing that is can't disarm itself?

See it just won't work out that way for you guys who want to push the collective rights line.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

32. Joseph M Hoeffel

"Congressman Joe Hoeffel is a Democratic Member of Congress from Pennsylvania’s 13th District, which includes a portion of Montgomery County and most of Northeast Philadelphia. Hoeffel is a member of the House International Relations Committee and the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.
Since coming to Congress in 1999, Congressman Hoeffel has earned a reputation as a hard working, articulate legislator, who is a progressive on social issues and a deficit hawk on the economy.
Now in his third term, Joe has worked hard on promoting fiscal restraint, balancing the federal budget, paying down our national debt, reforming education, improving international relations, protecting the environment and expanding health care.
oe has introduced legislation to create a veterans’ cemetery at Valley Forge National Historical Park; to eliminate wasteful Corporate Welfare; to reform federal funding to public schools and provide an additional $35 billion; and to bring antique and replica firearms under the same federal regulations as modern firearms.
He has also fought for the Patients’ Bill of Rights that would reform HMOs; is committed to preserving Social Security and Medicare and providing a prescription drug plan for seniors under Medicare; and is supporting legislation that would slow suburban sprawl and make our communities more livable."

And he's for gun control....

[MrBenchley]

33. Alcee Hastings

Appointed by President Jimmy Carter in 1979, he became the first African American to serve as a Federal Judge in the state of Florida, and he served in that position with distinction and honor for ten years.
Since his election to Congress as the first African-American from Florida since the Civil War period, Congressman Hastings has been an outspoken advocate for creating tax incentives for small businesses; expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit; providing job training and reeducation for displaced workers; banning assault weapons; funding Head Start and Education programs; making Social Security an independent agency; and providing family and medical leave to all workers. Throughout his lifetime, Congressman Hastings has championed the rights of minorities, women, the elderly, and immigrants.
Congressman Hastings is a Member of the powerful House Rules Committee where he serves as the Ranking Democrat on the Subcommittee on Technology and the House, and the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, On the Intelligence Committee, the Congressman serves on the Subcommittee on Terrorism and Homeland Security. He also serves as one of only four House Democrats on the US Helsinki Commission. Additionally, Hastings is on leave from the House International Relations Committee, where he previously served as the Ranking Democratic Member on the Europe Subcommittee. Working closely with his Florida colleagues, Hastings is Vice Chair of Florida Delegation. Having distinguished himself in international politics, Congressman Hastings was chosen to represent the US Congress in the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe's (OSCE) Parliamentary Assembly where he serves as Vice President. He was also appointed by the Speaker of the House of Representatives to serve as an observer to the reversion of Hong Kong to China. Hastings was named to the Democratic Select Committee on Election Reform."

And he's for gun control...

[MrBenchley]

41. Raul M. Grijalva

"Raúl was born in Tucson, Arizona in 1948. His father was a bracero who emigrated from Mexico in 1945 to help offset the loss of skilled American ranch hands serving in World War II. Raúl’s parents stressed the importance of education to their three children, and it was that encouragement that led Raúl to his career into life-long public service.

Raúl brings to Washington his life experiences as well as his experience in serving the people of his community. Raúl served on the Tucson Unified District Governing Board and came to be known for his advocacy of teacher and employee rights, civil rights, and public education. He received many awards for his service. The most significant honor was the naming of an elementary school in his name in 1988. During his tenure as a member of the Pima County Board of Supervisors, Raúl set a tone on many community issues, such as health care, children and families, the environment, and working families.

Raúl serves on the Committee on Education and Workforce, with seats on the Education Reform subcommittee and the Employer-Employee Relations subcommittee, and the Committee on Resources, with seats on the National Parks, Recreation and Public Lands subcommittee and the Water and Power subcommittee. In addition, Raúl is also the chair of the House Democratic Environmental Task Force."

And he's for gun control...

[slackmaster]

42. Augusto Pinochet

http://www.la-articles.org.uk/FL-2-1-2.pdf

[Muddleoftheroad]

49. lol

nt

[MrBenchley]

45. Gerald Kleczka

"Congressman Jerry Kleczka represents Wisconsin's 4th Congressional District, consisting of the City of Milwaukee and the suburbs of West Milwaukee, St. Francis, Cudahy, South Milwaukee, and part of West Allis.  He was first elected to the Wisconsin State Assembly at age 24, and in 1974 he won a seat in the State Senate.  He soon assumed leadership posts as Assistant Majority Leader and co-chair of the Legislature's powerful Joint Finance Committee.
In 1984 Kleczka was elected to Congress in a special election following the death of Rep. Clement Zablocki.  Kleczka has won 11 consecutive races and was re-elected November 5, 2002 with 87% of the vote.
Kleczka has also developed legislation to protect elderly residents of high-rise public housing from physical harm.  His legislation brought widespread praise and resulted in Milwaukee becoming the first city in the nation to provide elderly-only public housing.
A leading advocate of personal privacy issues in Congress, Kleczka co-sponsored legislation signed into law that makes identity theft a crime.  This year he has reintroduced the Personal Information Privacy Act, which would make it illegal for a business to withhold products or services if a consumer refused to furnish a Social Security number for identification purposes.
An active voice in the community, Kleczka is a member of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, the Brady Street Area Association, and America's Black Holocaust Museum."

And he's for gun control...

[slackmaster]

54. Emperor Hirohito of Japan

http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg15331.html

[Valarauko]

57. Ariel Sharon

Also Ben-Gurion, of course.

BTW, slackmaster, did you get my PM.

[MrBenchley]

58. Grace F. Napolitano

Grace Flores Napolitano was first elected to Congress in 1998.  She is currently serving her third term representing California’s 38th District, having won reelection with 71% of the vote.
Napolitano is the Ranking Member of the Water and Power Subcommittee and also serves on the Energy and Mineral Resources Subcommittee.  She is an avid promoter of conservation, water recycling, desalination, and sound groundwater management and storage to address Southern California’s need for adequate water quality and supply.  She is proud of her legislative efforts on a number of fronts – implementation of  CALFED, a water management plan for the State of California, protection of the fragile ecosystem in the Bay-Delta and promotion of the use of advanced technologies.  Her legislative effort to begin removal of a huge uranium tailings pile at the banks of the Colorado in Moab, stands out as a major accomplishment.   This pile has posed a danger to the health of more than 25 million people living in Southern California and six other states who rely on the Colorado River for drinking water. 
The Congresswoman is proud to serve as the First Vice Chair of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus and to chair the CHC’s International Trade Task Force.
At the beginning of the 108th Congress, Napolitano founded the Congressional Mental Health Caucus, which she now co-chairs with Rep. Tim Murphy (R-PA).  To date the caucus includes   over 70 Members from both parties.  As co-chair, Napolitano has hosted a congressional briefing on veteran’s mental health needs and is working on proposals to improve mental health services that the VA gives to veterans.
Napolitano has also taken a leading role in suicide prevention among Latina adolescents noting that nearly one-out-of-three has seriously considered suicide - the highest rate for any ethnic or racial group in the country. In 2001 she won a major victory when funds were included in the Labor-HHS-Education appropriations bill to support school-based, mental health services in her district."

And she's for gun control.

[MrBenchley]

60. Corrine Brown

"Corrine Brown was elected to Congress in 1992 as a public servant who prides herself on delivering the goods and services of the federal government to her constituents. Brown was reelected to the U.S. House of Representatives for a sixth term in November 2002.
By focusing on issues that are key to economic development, Brown has helped bring jobs and opportunities to towns and cities throughout the Third District. One of her first accomplishments as a Member of Congress was winning funding for the much-needed Fuller Warren Bridge in Jacksonville, which funnels Interstate 95 traffic away from the city. She also secured a $100 million federal courthouse for Jacksonville, at a time when courthouse funding was scarce. The courthouse is one of the centerpieces of Jacksonville's downtown development.
During her tenure in Congress, Brown has always been a Member of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs. She has championed the rights of veterans and called for better funding for veterans health care programs. During the 108th Congress, Brown serves on both the Health and Benefits Subcommittee. As the former Ranking Member on Oversight and Investigation, Brown presided over twenty hearing on issues relating to veterans services, health care, and VA's readiness for the new millennium. She also called the first hearing since 1994 on issues concerning women veterans. Upon realizing the limited space for veterans burial in Florida, Brown introduced legislation that was later passed to establish a new national cemetery in south Florida. Brown also introduced legislation to expand and improve the National Veteran's Cemetery system. She also championed legislation expanding the health and long-term care benefits America's veteran's receive, improving veterans education benefits, and expediting claims processing. In 2002, Brown received the endorsement of the Veterans of Foreign Wars PAC, and a "Legislative Leadership Award" from the National Coalition for Homeless Veterans.
Brown has also fought to protect environmental resources in her district and across the country. Because of her advocacy, Brown has received accolades by the National Parks and Conservation Association, the Sierra Club, the League of Conservation Voters, and Florida PIRG. One of the most important environmental successes for Brown was securing the American Heritage River designation for the St. Johns River, which spans the length of the Third District.
Since coming to Congress, Congresswoman Brown has repeatedly fought for the issues that are critical to working families. Whether it's fighting for improvements in public education or quality child care, Brown has always voted to protect working families. She joined the fight to add 100,000 new teachers to our schools and she has repeatedly fought for an increase in the minimum wage. She fought to pass the Family and Medical Leave Act and she joined President Clinton in supporting the effort to put 100,000 new police officers on the street.

And she's for gun control.

[MrBenchley]

61. Jim McDermott

"Jim McDermott was born in Chicago, IL on December 28, 1936. He was the first member of his family to attend college, and went on to finish medical school. After completing his medical residency and military service, he made his first run for public office in 1970 and was elected to the State Legislature from the 43rd district in Washington State. In 1974, he ran for the State Senate, and subsequently was re-elected three times.

In 1987, after 15 years of legislative service, Rep. McDermott decided to leave politics and continue in public service as a Foreign Service medical officer based in Zaire, providing psychiatric services to Foreign Service, AID, and Peace Corps personnel in sub-Saharan Africa. When the 7th district Congressional seat later became open, he returned from Africa to run for the U.S. House of Representatives. He was elected in 1988 to the 101st Congress and is currently serving his 8th term.

A physician, Rep. McDermott is especially interested in health care issues. While in the state legislature, he developed the Washington Basic Health Plan, the first state program in the country to provide low-cost health insurance to the unemployed and working poor. In the Congress, he is active in health care reform issues. He founded and chairs the Congressional Task Force on International HIV/AIDS and introduced the AIDS Housing Opportunities Act, a new program enacted into law in 1990 authorizing $156 million in FY 92 for special housing assistance for people with AIDS. Rep. McDermott, the co-author of National Health Care legislation, is leading the fight in the House of Representatives to guarantee all Americans comprehensive health care coverage."

And he's for gun control.

[MrBenchley]

62. Ben Cardin

Benjamin L. Cardin has represented Maryland's Third Congressional District in the House of Representatives since 1987. He is a member of the Ways and Means Committee, Ranking Member of the Human Resources Subcommittee and a member of the Social Security Subcommittee. He also is a member of the Homeland Security Committee, and is the Ranking Member of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe.
In the House, the Congressman has been a leader on fiscal issues, pension reform, and health care. His legislation to increase the amount Americans can put into their 401 (k) plans and IRAs was enacted into law in 2001. His proposal to expand Medicare to include preventive benefits such as colorectal, prostate, mammogram, and osteoporosis screening was also enacted into law. He also has authored legislation to provide a Medicare prescription drug benefit for chronic illnesses; fund graduate medical education; and guarantee coverage for emergency services.   
As the leading Democrat on the Human Resources Subcommittee, Mr. Cardin has introduced legislation that would bring welfare reform to the next level by helping those who leave public assistance get the skills they need so they can work their way out of poverty. His bill to increase education and support services for foster care children between ages 18 and 21 was signed into law in 1999. He has authored bills to expand child support, hold fathers more accountable, improve the welfare-to-work program and increase the child care tax credit.
Rep. Cardin's numerous awards include: Congressional Service Award, American Society for Gastrointestinal Endoscopy, 2003; Outstanding Leadership Award, American Occupational Therapy Assn., 2003; Congressional Champion Award, The National Coalition for Cancer Research, 2002; Congressional Leadership Award, The American College of Emergency Physicians, 2001; National Leadership Award for Service to Children and Families, Casey Family Services, 2000; Congressional Advocate of the Year Award, Child Welfare League of America, 2000; The American Medical Association’s Dr. Nathan Davis Award for Public Service, 1999; The Small Business Council of America’s Congressional Award, 1999 & 1993; and the Concord Coalition's "Deficit Hawk" Honor Roll, 1999 & 1998."

And he's for gun control.