The right person died.

[TPaine7]

A robber was shot and killed by a grocery store employee Sunday after the robber pointed a gun at a customer and her baby, police said.

...

Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department Sgt. Matthew Mount said the robber, brandishing a handgun, corralled all the customers into one part of the store. When the robber pointed the gun at a woman and her child, an employee shot him. The man was taken to Wishard Memorial Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
Source: http://www.indystar.com/article/20081222/LOCAL18/812220348/-1/ARCHIVE

Once again, anecdotes prove very little. So this isn't to prove anything; it's just grist for conversation.

The shooter was not in an enviable position, but she or he did the right thing. And I am glad a responsible citizen was on site, aren't you? I am glad the responsible citizen was armed, aren't you?

Responsible citizens can't always win, but it's great when they do. It sure beats the alternative.

[Wapsie B]

1. I've known people who've foiled robberies like that.

I agree with you.

[iverglas]

2. and yet no one needed to

Gotta love the armchair cheerleaders for murder and mayhem, though.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

3. Who was murdered?

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

16. somebody hereabouts really doesn't understand

IDIOM and FIGURE OF SPEECH.

What an impoverished thing one's language must be without them.

[Tejas]

4. When you get a moment, post the Powerball numbers

for this coming Wednesday.


Seeing as how you just knew the robber wasn't going to shoot anyone, he only had the gun for show, and more than likely he was actually a "good boy" so it was all a simple misunderstanding.

[TPaine7]

5. Personally I got a chuckle out of reading that

shooting a criminal while he is pointing a gun at a woman and a her baby is "murder and mayhem."

You must have a special dictionary.

Forget constitutional law, you should consider comedy.

And no one needed to die, huh? How exactly do you know? Can you back that up from the story or any other legitimate source? Or are you psychic?





Psychic comic has a nice ring to it. You could be big. You could have a real fan club.

[iverglas]

8. "You must have a special dictionary."

Yeah. It has the word "English" in the title.


shooting a criminal while he is pointing a gun at a woman and a her baby is "murder and mayhem."

If you say so.

[iverglas]

7. oh, sigh

Those idioms just go over like lead balloons, don't they?

Why, you'd almost think I do it on purpose. ;)

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22murder+and+mayhem%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Results 1 - 30 of about 252,000 for "murder and mayhem".


Nothing like the smell of concrete thinking on an empty stomach.

Or ... sniff, sniff ... is it disingenuousness?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. So you weren't calling anyone from DU an armchair cheerleader for murder and mayhem?

and again who was murdered in this case?

David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. Again who was murdered?

[rangersmith82]

13. Another bad guy bites the dust...

He just saved taxpayers lots of $$$$

The robber made his choice.

[TPaine7]

14. Yawn

"Idiom" and "common phrase" are not the same thing:

id⋅i⋅om
   /ˈɪdiəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. an expression whose meaning is not predictable from the usual meanings of its constituent elements, as kick the bucket or hang one's head, or from the general grammatical rules of a language, as the table round for the round table, and that is not a constituent of a larger expression of like characteristics.

Source: dictionary.com

"Murder and mayhem" mean exactly what one would expect. Unsurprisingly, iverglas' source does not support her. The 3rd entry (the first not dealing with fictional murder and fictional mayhem is http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/salim_mansur/2008/12/08/7666966-sun.html

Here's how it begins:

The world yet again witnessed another planned and co-ordinated terror assault by suicidal warriors of the Islamist jihad against a democracy.

The murder and mayhem in Mumbai unleashed by the 10-man squad in a commando-type operation, however, was not just another act of terrorism.

It was an act instead of an ongoing war that Islamists are waging against the United States and its allies, including India and Israel.

It is seven years and counting since 9/11, yet this war remains poorly understood by the public in democracies. Consequently this war, or the global jihad, unlike any previous wars of the modern age confounds democracies.

There's no unpredictable meaning, is there iverglas? Why not just be honest and admit you posted BS?

Or ... sniff, sniff ... is it disingenuousness?

Yes, and it stinks, doesn't it?

[AtheistCrusader]

10. Problematic situation.

I would hesitate to shoot someone who has a gun pointed at another person. I would be concerned they would fire after being hit. Even a central nervous system hit doesn't preclude a muscle twitch firing the weapon. Ended reasonably well considering the circumstances. I would like to know if the robber was eligable to own the weapon, and if not, where he obtained it.

I could add anecdotes from a bank robbery experienced by my family, but meh.

[JonQ]

12. By the legal definition murder and self-defense

are two very different things.

For instance, you commit "murder" you could go to jail for life, or be executed. You defend yourself using lethal force and you will probably receive no punishment.

Lumping the two together is absurd.

Now, claim you never said anything like that. . .

[Statistical]

15. Exactly. All inflicted deaths begin as homicide.

All murders are homicides not all homicides are murder.

In this case there was a justifiable homicide. No murder was committed.
There is no such thing as a justifiable murder. Using the term "murder" is prejudicial.

The requirements for murder vary by state but usually require BOTH
a) the suspect was NOT justified in using deadly force
b) the suspect acted with malice OR was in commission of another crime.

Even IF (the shoot looks clean to me) the shooting was not justified it STILL wouldn't be murder.

[russ1943]

17. Sometimes...........

"Fatal shootout brings 18-year term

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20081212/ARTICLE/812120329/2055/NEWS?Title=Fatal_shootout_brings_18_year_term

Paul Kallenbach packed two pistols when he stepped out to buy a newspaper at a North Tamiami Trail convenience store one night in February. He wound up killing a man with one pistol, and being shot twice with the other.

The video shows Kallenbach and Howard in a verbal dispute until Kallenbach, who had a permit to carry a concealed weapon, pulls a handgun from his fanny pack. Howard starts to back out of the store, but then lunges at the hand with the gun as Kallenbach steps forward."



CCW holder lost one of his firearms to the victim.
CCW holder kills victim with his backup firearm.
CCW holder convicted, pled guilty to manslaughter.

Those things never happen.

With time off for good behavior, maybe he'll get his CCW renewed in a dozen years or so.
Wait, that wouldn't ever happen!