Now That Eric Holder is the Attorney General....

[rangersmith82]

Does he even have the power to ban rifles??

If so, will he ban semi auto rifles/so called Assault rifles?

[tekisui]

1. Since when does the AG write and enact law?

[davepc]

20. the National Firearms Act gives the AG wide latitude to categories firearms

the so-called "sporting use" clause

[guntard]

27. "Sporting use" appears in the 1968 Gun Control Act, not the NFA

And it is primarily applied to imports.

[one-eyed fat man]

31. NFA and the AG

The AG will have the powers that used to be vested in the Secretary of the Treasury under the NFA. Recall that back in 1994 Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen unilaterally declared 3 models of 12 gauge shotguns to be 'Destructive Devices'.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9507E2D7143AF932A35750C0A962958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

This sort of unfettered authority with regards to assault weapons has been a principle part of every proposal so far for a renewed AWB.

[tburnsten]

38. First invented when Zimbabwe was ruled by a white-minority gov't

"The Street Sweeper, the most notorious of the shotguns that were reclassified today, was first invented in Zimbabwe, when it was called Rhodesia and ruled by a white-minority government. It was later used by the South African police as an anti-riot weapon."



Love the not-so-subtle attempt to link a firearm with racism and white pauer!

[Howzit]

24. If HR1022 passes, the AG will be able to add guns to the list of banned assault weapons as

he/she deems appropriate. So, in effect the AG will be able to ban guns.

Your disbelief suggests you agree that the AG's job is to uphold the law, not to write the law:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x134469#134477

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=182811&mesg_id=182852

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x134469

[michreject]

30. HR1022 is a dead stick

We are in a new Congress.

[Howzit]

34. So this list of backers are no longer part of the picture?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=182811&mesg_id=182852

[michreject]

39. Most definetly yes

But HR1022 expired with the new Congress.

[Autumn]

2. No he will not ban semi auto rifles/so called Assault rifles

It isn't in his job description.

[rangersmith82]

3. good, i was hoping he couldnt do it.

I understand that The house and Senate can enact another Assault Weapon ban.

I was just curious if he was afforded any powers that would let him bypass congress.

Thanks, I feel better now.

[floridablue]

4. He enforces the laws Congress writes & Pres. signs

[Old Codger]

5. really

If the constitution is followed congress is the only source of laws, no one else has that authority... they don't follow that most of the time. They quite often attempt to get around that and do so successfully quite often by making "policy" and trewating that as if it is a law... Happens all the time

[Howzit]

26. See post #24

Sorry old chap

[Howzit]

25. Not in his job description, yet...

[iverglas]

6. you are becoming incoherent

in your (feigned?) hysteria.

[rangersmith82]

22. probably..

n/t

[katandmoon]

7. Of course he does. He is suiting up now to come to your house and steal your guns.

[nitrogen76]

8. Sort of.

He does not have the power to enact laws, but he IS head of the Justice department.

He DOES have the power as to how existing law is interpreted.
For instance:
He cannot, without congress, ban all semi autos.

He CAN do things like ban imports of cheap ammo and rifles. One of the cheapest, most popular (bolt action, non semi-auto) rifles is the Russian made Mosin-Nagant. If he was so inclined, he could ban the further import of them, as well as the ammo it fires.

I am sure he's on board with the Obama plan to try and enact a regular-capacity mag/assault weapons ban, but he cannot do major damage like that without congress.

[iverglas]

11. so is that the new meme?

regular-capacity mag/assault weapons

"Regular-capacity". I'll watch for that.

Ah yes ...

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22regular-capacity+magazine%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

And here in fact, as long ago as:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x72042#72044

[nitrogen76]

21. Yes, regular capacity.

Well, yes.  Regular capacity.  A magazine capacity that fits
with the design of the weapon.  For 9mm handguns, it's usually
around 13-16 rounds, as thats how many rounds fit into the
grip.  Other .45 handguns, like the 1911, will only take 5-7
rounds. 10 round mags usually need a stopper plate to
artificially reduce the capacity in many standard sized
handguns.

Rifles are a bit different, as rifle bullets are usually
bigger and longer.  Magazines usually are designed to hold as
many rounds as possible, given a spring length and tension
that can reliably push the last round out into the weapon. 
For the M-4 and M-16, for instance, that's usually a 30 round
mag.  Also, any standard mag larger than 30 rounds will curve
too much because of the design of the round.

Following with M-4/AR-15 shooters, the "standard
capacity" mags are the 30 rounders, because there's far
more military surplus 30 rounder mags than any other type. 
Until recently, milsurp mags were $8-10 a piece.  A 20 round
mag for an AR could be around $15.  Nowadays, add $5 to those
prices because of the rush.

[Lint Head]

9. Yes! Ban them all! Then he will take all of your youngest daughters

for himself. We will be slaves to Satan's great Eye in the Sky. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

[iverglas]

10. damn right! -- why else

would people be required to REGISTER THEIR CHILDREN?!?!?

Obviously -- so they can be confiscated.

[Lint Head]

13. Wait. Ther is a sign from Satan's Spawn.

[iverglas]

16. lock up yr daughters

and get some of those reed baskets for yr sons ...



Okay, I actually can spell "daughters" ...

[tularetom]

12. As a firearms owner/collector I would like to announce to non gun ownng DUers

that we're not all paranoid wimps crying about the Dems seizing our guns.

[Lint Head]

19. I'm with you. I'm not really that crazy. I just play 'crazy' on DU.

I own several guns. I will probably purchase more as it is my right to do so.

:dem:

[Historic NY]

14. Is he going to take guns away from Repukes....

I need something to make my Repuke friends mess in their pants.

[iverglas]

17. that's the idea!

Never mind all this molly-coddling. Make 'em afraid. Make 'em very afraid.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

37. Then I guess we'll be like you'll.

[tularetom]

18. Yes - only repukes

We Dems will get to keep all our firearms, plus we will get the guns that are confiscated from the dumshit repubs..

[ManiacJoe]

15. Indirectly, yes he has the power.

He cannot ban ownership, but he does control the import lists.

Will he? Well, my crystal ball is in the shop for repairs....
(You probably meant "assault weapons", not assault rifles.)

[rangersmith82]

23. thanks

n/t

[plantwomyn]

28. A question about "sporting use"

Can anyone give me a link to the "sports" which use semi auto weapons and REQUIRE large capacity clips.

[jmg257]

29. Probably isn't an offical "sport" - typical NRA Hi-Power Rifle Comps are 10 round strings.

I think the use of the regular capacity 15, 20 & 30 mags are OK.

[benEzra]

32. Define "large."

If you mean over 10 rounds (banned by H.R.1022 et seq), then IPSC/IDPA/USPSA competitive shooting would qualify. If you mean over 6 rounds (banned by Brady Campaign proposals) then practically anything with a pistol.

One might point out that the AR-15 is the most popular centerfire target rifle in the United States, and that more Americans lawfully own "assault weapons" than hunt. They are not fringe guns; they are the mainstream.

[jeepnstein]

33. Over thirty rounds....

That's how the State of Ohio defines a "large capacity" feeding device. Thirty rounders are in common use and it would be hard to argue otherwise. You can't have one of those monster drum magazines. This is reasonable since the standard issue mag for the military is a thirty rounder.

Some times you get an 88'er with an AR or AK but they don't really have much use for any of our laws.

[benEzra]

40. 31+ is a reasonable definition of "large capacity," I think.

11+ is most assuredly not.

[jeepnstein]

41. I'm kind of conflicted on that...

Thirty is what is issued to the troops and is pretty much the standard in AR circles. I suppose if they had to draw the line somewhere that was about as reasonable as anything they could have done. I haven't found any of the State's laws to be infringing on my rights.

I did object to the Concealed Carry law at first. I was a proponent of the affirmative defense we had under the old law but the CCW has been a good thing over all. I'm not up to speed on the new Castle Doctrine law yet, so I can't really comment on it.

[bossy22]

35. hmm here is a few

http://www.odcmp.org/1208/default.asp?page=WCREEDMOOR

there is an example up there...its a CMP match...most of these matches require that you compete with a military weapon or military style weapon...almost always a semi-auto

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

36. IPSC and USPSA would be two places to look.

International Practical Shooting Confederation and United States Practical Shooting Association just do a google search and they'll pop up. You can watch some videos also.

David

[plantwomyn]

42. So if an "international" group or the NRA

set up a "match" for a given type of weapon that weapon automatically qualifies as a "sporting use" weapon?

[X_Digger]

43. You mean like...

an international group in 80 countries with 85k members like IPSC? I'd say so, yes.

*eta: Not that just one of the clubs doing that would qualify, but if multiple IPSC clubs pick it up as standard, yes.

[plantwomyn]

44. RPG -7s

For everyone!:bounce:

[jmg257]

45. Why - are there "sporting events" for RPGs?? Seriously, a recent attempt

at an AWB (HR1022) had this to say:

"...a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.

If this became law, this is what would have determined it:

" A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General."

{note "firearm" - nothing in here about RPGs.}

With the new AG being such an anti-gun nut, SOO glad that didn't pass!

[X_Digger]

47. Not sure how you for from A to B

RPGs aren't available to your average enthusiast, so not quite sure what your point is?

If 5k folks are gathering under a sanctioning body to compete with rules, tournaments, etc, I'd say that qualifies as a sport.

How do you define a sport?

[guntard]

48. Definition of a sport

A sport is some avocational activity in which I or members of my immediate circle of urban bi-coastal friends engage.

Any other avocational activity engaged in by people I do not know or like is automatically and de-facto not a sport.

Am I getting close?

[tburnsten]

53. They also aren't firearms, they are rocket propelled grenade projectors

And are covered by the NFA under destructive devices.


If a weapon is not a firearm, than firearm laws can't very well apply to it can they?



Not that it matters to our dimwit friend here.

[tburnsten]

52. Do you have any idea what a (expletive deleted) you sound like?

Seriously, you make some retarded statements regarding firearms competitions, when we fucking explain something to you you respond with "RPG-7s for everyone! YAY!" Are you fucked or what? also, a rocket propelled grenade launcher is a rocket propelled grenade launcher, it cannot be a firearm, it will never be a firearm, and firearms laws will never apply to it. National Firearms Act is what covers items like that, and only because the NFA covers many things that are not actually firearms. Also, the "E" in the agency BATFE stands for "explosives". Guess which word the "F" in BATFE stands for, and guess which one of those two a fucking grenade launcher would be covered by.

Don't let reality get in the way of your hyperbole though.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. Who said that?

[benEzra]

49. Thing is, more Americans own "assault weapons" than hunt.

So if an "international" group or the NRA set up a "match" for a given type of weapon that weapon automatically qualifies as a "sporting use" weapon?

Thing is, more Americans own "assault weapons" than hunt. Given that AR-15's and other modern-looking rifles are the most popular centerfire target rifles in the United States, I'd say they are as suitable for "sporting purposes" as any deer rifle is.

[tburnsten]

54. I'd say they are more suitable

How many competitive shooting disciplines are limited to very powerful long-range rifles that cannot accept any attachment other than an optical sight and maybe a sling? None that I know of.

[tburnsten]

51. International sport=sporting use doesn't it?

Who else would set up matches? The government? Not everyone can get in on the State Marksmanship Matches that are put on by whatever military presence a state has, since you must be a current servicemember to come out and play.

[tburnsten]

50. IDPA, IPSC, USPSA, probably more. The first two acronyms begin with the word "international"

Google them. And what the hell difference does it make if a firearm is a self-loader or not? I really think people who don't know much about guns can focus too much on the exact mechanism. Semi-auto is not unusual, not dangerous, not realistically any different than any other mechanism, it is just a different mechanism. that's all. It's like the difference between an automatic transmission and a manual transmission in a vehicle, it really doesn't make any difference at all except to the person who has to use it.


And in those competitions if you don't have a decent magazine capacity you are often out of the running.