Florida paper Editorializes in favor of AWB

[russ1943]

OrlandoSentinel.com
EDITORIAL
We think: A renewed federal assault weapons ban is long
overdue
February 3, 2009

An erstwhile federal ban on assault weapons made lots of
sense. Allowing it to lapse, as Congress did in 2004, didn't.

How much longer will it take to correct that mindless mistake?

There's no need for ordinary citizens to be armed with such
lethal firepower. Hunters don't need them. Gun-toting
urbanites don't need them, either.
Those who say that outlawing these lethal rifles will only
mean that criminals will have access to them are flat wrong.
All that legalization does is make it easier for crooks to get
them, and make it necessary for police to play catch-up in a
costly city-street arms race.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-ed03109feb03,0,1980888


....I’ll add, great editorial. Gun enthusiasts will dwell on
the phrase “high-powered” (used in the editorial)and no
reference to the word “type” after the terms AK-47s and
AR-15s. eg. AK-47 type, assuming most if not all those rifles
were most likely semi-auto versions. 

Also no mention of either;
Most of the AWs used in crime are assault pistols rather than
assault rifles. The Intratec TEC-9 assault pistol, the AW most
frequently used in crime.
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/204431.pdf page 4

Or ammunition feeding devices holding more than 10 rounds of
ammunition (referred to as large capacity magazines, or LCMs).
An LCM is arguably the most functionally important feature of
most AWs, many of which have magazines holding 30 or more
rounds.

[iverglas]

1. stuff they don't like to talk about, eh?

The large capacity magazines, and the pistols covered by the AWB. So much for the but no rifles are ever used to kill anybody meme; apart from the fact that killing is NOT the only issue, rifles are not the only assault weapons.

[bossy22]

2. yes the evil tec-9

its not like there is any other weapon out there that is just as lethal...

....or how about any other semi-automatic handgun

the assault pistol meme is even sillier than the assault weapon (rifle) meme....

[krispos42]

4. That's controlling the discussion framework

you say "name an assault weapon" to a dozen people on the street, most of them will say "AK-47". By default, despite what the now-expired definition of "assault weapon" is, most people are talking about military-looking rifles.

You'll recall, I'm sure that most arguments down here go like this:

Person A: Look at this story! Another person killed by some maniac with an AK-47! We need to ban them again!

Person B: It's not a real AK-47; the registry on those has been closed for more than 20 years and a real, legal AK-47 costs almost ten grand nowadays. That was a semiautomatic, civilian-legal version.

Person A: It was designed to kill people as quickly as possible. Guns like this AK-47 used in this crime would not be allowed if they would reinstate the AWB!

Person B: But rifles, of which this AK-47-pattern rifle is but a subset, account for less than 3# of all murders nationwide. (or gun murders; I forget which)


The focus is almost invariably on tactical rifles as the embodiment of "assault weapon". I would venture to say that a goodly portion of AWB proponents aren;t aware that "assault weapon" also covers some kinds of shotguns and handguns.




In a related manner, the streets would be safer if the criminals were packing Tec-9s instead of revolvers and more conventional handguns.

[benEzra]

6. Very few pistols were covered by the AWB, and most of those that were

are no longer in production. The TEC-9 looked neat, but had a reputation for terrible reliability, and its sustained rate of fire was lower than that of an ordinary Smith & Wesson or Glock due to its being slower to reload than a more conventional looking 9mm. Intratec continued to make ban-compliant versions with no cosmetic barrel shroud after 1994, but the media seemed to be about the only ones who thought they were worth a crap.

Almost all "assault weapons" on the market today ARE rifles, and the most popular rifles in the nation at that. As to the "no rifles are ever used to kill anybody" straw man, of course rifles are occasionally used in murders. They are just far less likely to be used as murder weapons than knives, shoes, bare hands, and blunt objects, never mind handguns.

And rifle magazine capacities, and magazine prices, were not significantly affected by the Feinstein non-ban. It did raise the price of full-capacity magazines for ordinary handguns, but did not make them illegal to import, sell, or possess.

[guntard]

8. I was unfamiliar with the TEC-9 until I read this thread

I'd heard of them of course, so I googled it up:



OMG, now I see what the problem is! That pistol has both a highly visible magazine forward of the trigger (banned here in California, for example, and our Legislature is a paragon of sound government) as well as a perforated shroud surrounding the barrel!

You just can't make pistols any more deadly or dangerous that that!

It is irresponsible of us gun nuts to oppose immediate and sweeping bans of these dangerous kitten-killing weapons!

[gorfle]

9. Large capacity magazines and pistols.

Springfield Armory now has a pistol called the XDM in 9mm. It holds 19+1 rounds of ammunition.



With a second magazine, which can be swapped out with an empty in less than 5 seconds, one can nearly match the 50-round maximum capacity of a TEC-9.

Cho, who killed 32 people at Virginia Tech, used a Glock 17, which holds 17 rounds of 9mm, and a Walther P22 which holds 10 rounds of .22LR. He carried 19 extra magazines and over 400 rounds of ammunition. He fired 174 rounds in about 12 minutes during his attack.

Reloading is so fast I don't see how reducing the number of rounds a firearm can carry will reduce crime or casualties.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

3. Lot of idiots in Florida.

[jmg257]

5. One of the best comments...

"The assault weapons ban is a "no brainer" all right.

It makes a lot of sense to people with no brain."

Too funny.

[gorfle]

7. Problems with the article.

"There's no need for ordinary citizens to be armed with such lethal firepower. Hunters don't need them. Gun-toting urbanites don't need them, either."

The fundamental assertion of the article is incorrect. Any student of our Constitution and the second amendment understands that the intent was for the citizens to be armed with the same lethal firepower that the small arms of the federal standing army provided.

If the founders were correct in their intent, then ordinary citizens do have a need for such lethal firepower.

It's not about hunting, and it doesn't matter whether you live in an urban area or not.

"It's happening right here in Central Florida. Only six years ago, officers in Orlando and Orange County seized 15 high-powered AK-47s and AR-15s. Four years later, that number grew to 79, a jump of more than 400 percent."

This is hardly surprising. Since the assault weapons ban, assault weapons have become extremely popular firearms to own. By some accounts they now are the most popular center-fire target rifles in use. With more in circulation, it does not surprise me to hear of more of them being seized by police. Nonetheless, AK-47s and AR-15s are hardly ever used in to kill. According to FBI data, hands and feet account for more murders than all rifles combined.

"These guns are not in the hands of good people trying to protect themselves. No one is trying to trample on Second Amendment rights."

But they are. These guns are in the hands of millions of good people, for a variety of reasons, including protecting themselves, both Constitutionally and otherwise.

"However, there are too many examples of the opposite -- criminals using these weapons to kill people or law-enforcement officers."

Here we come to the real meat-and-potatoes assertion - that assault rifles like the AK-47 and AR-15 provide too many examples of criminals killing people. But the FBI statistics do not bear out this assertion. All rifles combined, let alone assault rifles, account for half as many murders each year than hands and feet do.

"The lines between a legal and an illegal gun are blurry. In Florida, guns are readily available to anyone without a criminal record. But guns routinely end up in the hands of criminals. All it takes is a "straw purchase," when a friend or relative buys a gun for a criminal."

Which, of course, is already illegal.

[guntard]

10. "high-powered AK-47s and AR-15s"

American journalists are unable to type "AK-47" or "AR-15" without prefacing the terms with "high-powered."

High-powered compared to what? A handgun?

[benEzra]

11. Or compared to a .22.

A 4-cylinder Honda Civic is "high powered" compared to a Trabant, too. Obviously that means that 4-cylinder Civics must be "race cars" that "have no legitimate transportation purpose."

[slackmaster]

12. I can never get past anyone telling someone else what they need or don't need

The arrogance turns me off, and I am no longer interested in whatever they have to say.

[ManiacJoe]

13. Corrected URL to the editorial:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-ed03109feb03,0,1980888.story

[oneshooter]

14. Remember that

Gun control isn't about guns, it's about CONTROL.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[rrneck]

15. Not that I have any plans to do so,

but I bet even an out of shape old fart like me could kill about as many people with one of these as what's his name did at Virginia Tech. You could certainly do as good a job of terrorizing people.