Quick thinking student saves lives and stops multiple rapes

[dashrif]

COLLEGE PARK, Ga. -- A group of college students said they are lucky to be alive and they’re thanking the quick-thinking of one of their own. Police said a fellow student shot and killed one of two masked me who burst into an apartment.

Channel 2 Action News reporter Tom Jones met with one of the students to talk about the incident.

“Apparently, his intent was to rape and murder us all,” said student Charles Bailey.
Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.

“They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.

Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

That’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.

The student then ran to the room where the second gunman, identified by police as 23-year-old Calvin Lavant, was holding the women.

“Apparently the guy was getting ready to rape his girlfriend. So he told the girls to get down and he started shooting. The guy jumped out of the window,” said Bailey.

A neighbor heard the shots and heard someone running nearby.

“And I heard someone say, ‘Someone help me. Call the police. Somebody call the police,’” said a neighbor.

The neighbor said she believes it was Lavant, who was found dead near his apartment, only one building away.

Bailey said he is just thankful one student risked his life to keep others alive.

“I think all of us are really cognizant of the fact that we could have all been killed,” said Bailey.

One female student was shot several times during the crossfire. She is expected to make a full recovery.

Police said they are close to making the arrest of the second suspect.

with video http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19365762/detail.html

[RaleighNCDUer]

1. What crossfire?

In two days of reports I've yet to see one that says either of the suspects also fired. You cannot have a crossfire unless TWO people are shooting.

Edit:
And it was the injured (soon to be dead) criminal who begged for someone to get the police?

There's more to this than is being reported.

[FiveGoodMen]

5. Yup. There's no way that should be casually mentioned without explanation.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. One article stated that the suspect shot the woman.

[louis-t]

2. One of the extremely rare times someone "gets the drop"

on armed gunman. Glad it turned out OK.

[jody]

3. Please cite credible sources that its "extremely rare" as you assert. We have enough anti-RKBA myths

circulating as facts when they are simply untruths.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. Why the "extremely rare" comment?

The hardest stat to prove one way or the other is when the presence of a defensive firearm stopped a crime about to happen or was already in progress. No one collects that data and it rarely if ever makes the media. The NRA and the Brady Bunch fight over this at all levels.

In my personal experience there have been a number of times that me being clear I was armed has prevented things from escalating. Quite literally the presence of a firearm prevented injuries and death since the perp/perp-to-be backed off. Brady Bunch will tell you that rarely happens, but my experience says otherwise. There have also been times because I was not armed I have had to hurt people to resolve situations. With the exception of a burglary, none of these events ever made it to a police report.

[ZombieHorde]

6. "In my personal experience there have been a number of time"

"In my personal experience there have been a number of time that me being clear I was armed has prevented things from escalating."

You may wish to rethink how you live your life, or move to another town.

[BigBluenoser]

7. So inner city residents should also just...

pick up and move to another town since they live in an at times violent environment?

[ZombieHorde]

17. I am not an expert on the subject of inner city residents,

but if they are finding themselves in situations where a firearm is needed they should reexamine the way they live their lives and/or move if possible.

[dairydog91]

21. College students are not famous for their wealth...

...and money is generally required to buy housing in a good neighborhood. From the sound of the article, the students were not "living their lives" in any way that was meant to provoke a home invasion.

[ZombieHorde]

22. My reply was not to the article, my reply was originally to

"In my personal experience there have been a number of times that me being clear I was armed has prevented things from escalating."

The bold is mine.

I would imagine those collage students would either change the way they live their lives or move elsewhere if that situation happened to them a number of times (other than one).

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. As the one being quoted, what I was pointing out that being openly armed in my experience

shocks most perps into stopping what they are doing to their victim/potential victim. Sometimes just intervening is enough, but the weapon tends to cement things. That's my experience, your mileage may vary, but from you have posted, its decision and situation you haven't faced.

My altercation frequency is indeed higher than many, read post 11 as to why.

As a Marine, you were trained never to leave a buddy behind. In civilian life, we all need to ask ourselves who is our buddy and who are we willing to leave behind to face an attacker without support. Its a moral position not a macho one.

[ZombieHorde]

24. "read post 11 as to why"

Violent abusers were often insistent on locating their victims.

Oooooohhhhh, now I see. I take back my advice for you; I was wondering what you were doing to attract potentially violent situations. Thanks for the civil debate.

[SteveM]

40. Neither are the 61-year-olds I know (nt)

[dashrif]

9. Why

move to another town?

When I have a problem I try to fix it I don't run from it why would anyone?

[ZombieHorde]

18. I offered two seperate peices of advice, perhaps you are confused since I placed them both in the

same sentence. I will break it down for you.

Advice #1: Reexamine the way you live your life.

Advice #2: Move away.

Of course some people may enjoy being in situations which require firearms for protection; these people should merrily ignore my advice.

When I have a problem I try to fix it I don't run from it why would anyone?

A person falls into a campfire, they have the option of burning, they have the option of trying to put out the camp fire, and they have the option of getting out of the campfire as quickly as possible.

[one-eyed fat man]

25. Kitty Genovese

Not the only time people who were too indifferent or too frightened or too alienated or too self-absorbed to ``get involved'' in helping a fellow human being in dire trouble.

No fewer than 38 of her neighbors had witnessed at least one of her killer's three attacks but had neither come to her aid nor called the police. The attacks took place over 35 minutes.

Be that way if you want, I find it reprehensible.

[ZombieHorde]

26. I don't understand your point. nt

[one-eyed fat man]

27. You said............

"...........I will break it down for you.

Advice #1: Reexamine the way you live your life.

Advice #2: Move away."

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke
Irish orator, philosopher, & politician (1729 - 1797)

I just happen to believe that Burke was right. In a world filled with wolves and sheep it is good there are those few who are sheepdogs.

[ZombieHorde]

28. Trying to avoid violent situations and running from problems are two different things.

If running around a violent neighborhood with a gun actually solved the problem of violence then the problem of violence would already be solved. Social services, education, improved mental health services, and economic opportunities will do more to lower violence than any lone armed protector scenario.

[one-eyed fat man]

33. Weasels and chickens.

Crime is not simply a response to economic circumstances. Lots of poor people do not steal. Crime is not a way of 'getting even' for the poor are more often the ones victimized! For many crime is a way of life, a career choice. Low level street dealers could make as much money working fast food as they do on the corner. Surprised? Why do so many of those petty losers STILL live with their mothers........and pilfer her purse?

You think Charlie Manson was deprived or merely depraved? He never stabbed anyone, he had a lovestruck harem to do it for him. A killer does not have to be psychotic to be a psychopath.

You might mitigate some criminal activity by better social services, but you are unable to understand for many it IS a choice. They know robbing you is wrong, they know kicking your teeth in is wrong, they know that a gang rape in Central Park is wrong, they just choose to do it anyway.

A weasel will kill every chicken in a hen house because that is the nature of a weasel. Unlike the guy in Florida last week who kidnapped a baby and threw it out the car window going down the Interstate a callous, vicious and calculated act for which THERE IS NO EXCUSE!.

[ZombieHorde]

39. Are you intentionally ignoring the points in my post, or was the following sentence confusing?

"Social services, education, improved mental health services, and economic opportunities"

[one-eyed fat man]

42. Is this confusing?

Despite "Social services, education, improved mental health services, and economic opportunities" there will still be criminals.

There are people who consciously choose to be anti-social, violent and predatory and neither love nor money will induce them to behave otherwise.

[ZombieHorde]

43. "there will still be criminals"

I am not disputing this fact. My point was, and still is, if you are finding yourself in numerous violent situations here in the U.S., something weird is going on in your life, and unless you like violence, you should do something about it.

[one-eyed fat man]

44. sometimes, folks have

not much in the way of choices. The single mom working the midnight shift at the convenience store. The cab driver. The pizza delivery person. They are just busting their ass trying to scrape by in a dead-end job in a bad neighborhood in most any big city. Guess it's their fault they are too proud to beg and think it's wrong to steal. Maybe they have miserable hopeless lives, but since they are honest and hard-working they should be entitled to preserve them.

A quick look at the 2007 Uniform Crime Report statistics shows us the following regarding the cities with the most prohibitive gun laws:

* DC – 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
* New York – 494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
* Baltimore – 281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
* Newark – 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)

How many have the 'enlightened urban elites', HCI, Paul Helmke, Sarah Brady, Dianne Feinstein and their shills in the media proclaimed that the passage of Concealed Carry in whatever city, state, National Park will result in shootouts over any minor fender bender, etc. Why it'll be worse than Dodge City or Tombstone the Wild West.

Going back to the Kansas cowtowns in their heydey:

* In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.

* In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.

It doesn't take an advanced degree in statistics to see that a return to “wild west” levels of violent crime would be a huge improvement for the residents of these cities.

The truth of the matter is that the “wild west” wasn’t nearly as wild as a Saturday night in Newark. Maybe we just have a worse class of criminal in the cities these days.

[ZombieHorde]

45. You're getting weird.

What do you think my point is? Please state it clearly.

eta: What part of "if possible" confuses you?

[one-eyed fat man]

46. seemed simple enough

You seem to have said, "If you live in a crappy crime-ridden neighborhood, move."

and if someone doesn't move they must like it there.

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. My thought exactly.

I own no firearms, and have had no need for weapons of any kind. I have not been in any violent situations since I left the Marines some 35 years ago - and it's not because I've been cowering in my basement all this time.

In MY experience, if someone is looking for trouble it will find him. It very rarely finds someone who isn't.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. That depends if you have an active or passive life

When we lived in urban areas, my late wife was active in the early womens shelter movement including safe houses before it was trendy and broadly supported. Violent abusers were often insistent on locating their victims. Display of a weapon was often all that was needed to dissuade them. I've also stood between gay bashers and their intended targets a few times. Nothing ever made a police report or the papers.

In the hinterlands, where I am now, its nominally 30 minutes until law enforcement can arrive. The few times there has been trouble, its rednecks who think that out here they can make their own law and most recently a repo man who ended up in jail.

[Joe Chi Minh]

12. "..... its rednecks who think that out here they can make their own law."

You mean like these two...? (It takes a while to get there, but it's worth the wait)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPofRQdREyU&feature=related

[ProgressiveProfessor]

13. Seen that before, way way too funny

Some people claim it was scripted...regardless, funny as all hell.

[Tim01]

15. You mean by leaving the area when it looks like a person is going to be attacked?

I don't think so. I am not going to leave others to the mercy of bad guys out of fear for my own safety.
You do whatever you are comfortable with.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. Some do, but some how to me its just wrong to abandon others or look the other way

when you are is a position to stop things or intervene. Call me an idealist, but running away and calling 911 is not enough when people are getting hurt.

[ZombieHorde]

20. No, that is not what I mean. nt

[louis-t]

29. The presence of a firearm has also escalated the killing.

What is the percentage of police officers killed in the line of duty that were killed with their own weapons? If I recall correctly, it's between 30 and 40%. I know the NRA has stated at various times "1 million, 2 million, 1.9... 1.6... 4 million times a year" someone "protects" themselves with a weapon. Then they began adding a tagline to the "statistics" that said "most of the time without firing a shot". I'm sure Ted Nugent feels he "protected" himself when he charged out with a weapon and confronted several people who were walking on his property. I'm sure the guy who shot his own daughter through the closet door because he thought she was a burglar thought he was protecting himself. How about the off-duty police officer who drew her weapon after witnessing a hold-up at a gas station and was immediately shot dead. I still say, the chances of someone actually defending themselves, "getting the drop" on an armed intruder, robber, etc. are miniscule compared to the chance that the weapon will be stolen from you, used against you or a family member, or found by a child and used to accidently harm a sibling or playmate. I will never deny that you have a right to own a weapon, I just think most gun owners are delusional about how "safe" they become once they own one. The other "statistic" that is never collected and rarely reported is whether a gun used in a crime is legally owned or not. I began looking for this info after years of NRA rhetoric that seemed to claim that people who own a gun suddenly become "law-abiding citizens", as if that one act changes body and soul into the perfect human. While we're at it, anyone who thinks that murderers will think twice about murdering someone because they're not sure who is armed and who isn't is fooling themselves.

I'm going to duck now.

[Caliman73]

38. No need to duck

Unless you feel threatened by someone opposing your opinions. The statistic is 2.2 or 2.5 million defensive firearms uses per year and it isn't the NRA's, it is Gary Kleck's. Though the statistic may be difficult to verify 100% even the very conservative National Crime Victim Survey of 162,000 defensive uses per year estimate is more than 10 times more then the homicide rate of 14,000 per year. Also, I would imagine that more police are killed with their own service weapon because they have to come into close contact with criminals to apprehend them. If they become involved in a physical struggle, it is likely that their firearm may be taken from them and used against them by a criminal not wanting to go to jail. I would also imagine that most criminals know that police have a sidearm as it is plainly visible. Though it may be a deterrent at standoff range, at close quarters and in a physical altercation it is just as viable to grab for the officer's side arm as it is to stop resisting, especially if they are on drugs or drunk. Anecdotal evidence of an idiot (Nugent) over reacting to trespassers, or an unfortunate and tragic accident, or a violent act resulting in a tragic death of an officer does not strongly make your case. The statistics both liberal and conservative support the idea that being able to defend yourself with a firearm is a plus not a detriment.

I have no illusions that a firearm renders me "safe" or "safer" from crime. Having a firearm is having a tool with which to defend yourself from violent attackers. You may be successful or unsuccessful, but you have the option. Without a firearm, you are at a distinct disadvantage regardless of the weapon the assailant chooses. I saw a video of a man in Nicaragua stabbing 5 police officers with a knife prior to finally being shot. All of the officers involved were carrying assault rifles but were trying to reason with the man when he began attacking. It is not just about having a firearm it is about ability and willingness to use it effectively. The college student in this story obviously had both and was lucky.

Finally, addressing your opinion about the "law abiding" claim. You have to be a law abiding citizen or resident to LEGALLY own a firearm. People who do not meet the criteria and who still possess firearms are already criminals. Having a firearm does not make anyone anything. The person's personality and character is what it is despite the firearm not because of it. There is no such thing as the "perfect human" because perfection is a subjective criteria open to interpretation. The expectations of a gun owner are that they are of legal age to own, that they have a record free from serious criminal offenses or ones specifically involving violence, and that they have not been adjudicated for mental instability in which they were found to be a danger to themselves or others. That is the definition by law of "law abiding" gun owner. Whether the person cheats at Monopoly, or doesn't recycle, or doesn't call his mom on Mother's Day is not at issue.

[SteveM]

41. Well, a simple phenomenon floats by, now...

Since the mid-1990s, the homicide rates have fallen significantly and over a 10-year period; civilian gun-ownership was estimated, during the same interval, to have increased from 190,000,000 to 290,000,000.

The presence of firearms, indeed.

[damntexdem]

8. Well, maybe -- what was the "crossfire."

Much more of this story needs to be told.

[louis-t]

30. Agreed.

[jody]

19. DU's Guns forum has more pass-through posts with "unsupported assertions" by someone who disappears

than any other forum.

Why would anyone hoping to defend the anti-RKBA cause arm themselves with unsupported assertions and ad hominem attacks against pro-RKBA Dems defending truth, justice, and the American way?

[louis-t]

31. I'm too tired to try and translate your post.

All I said was it is extremely rare that anyone can pull something like this off. I am also extremely glad he did. We all want a hero to step up and shoot the bad guy. We all want to believe owning a gun makes us safe. I just don't buy into the "liberal media doesn't report the millions of times a year that someone pertecks themselves with a gun" meme.

[X_Digger]

32. Who says that?

The idea that the "liberal media doesn't report the millions of times a year that someone pertecks (sic) themselves with a gun" is silly on it's face, but not for the reason you expect- who calls the news and says "hey, I wasn't shot tonight, and I didn't shoot anyone!" non-film at 11. (Most defensive uses of a handgun don't involve them being fired. - Kleck & Gertz Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, vol. 86, issue 1, 1995)

[louis-t]

34. (sigh) See my other post.

By the way, the NRA says 'that'.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=221447&mesg_id=221563

[X_Digger]

35. I've heard the NRA quote

They've quoted the Kleck study, but I've never heard that 'under-reporting' angle from anyone. I've heard that the stats are difficult to get, but nobody would expect the media to report on a non-shooting, non-rape, non-confrontation. Frequently the actual defensive uses of a gun that _do_ result in a shooting make the news- fire_medic_dave usually posts them here. Over-reporting, however, I can see that- when a cute little white girl is abducted or killed, it's on the news for weeks. Nevermind the fact that those kind of abductions / killings are at a historic low.

[louis-t]

36. You're right, the actual shooting will make news

in a heartbeat. Unless it's an old granny that shoots (or doesn't shoot) at a burglar to chase him off (which the news will cover), there isn't a good way to verify stories of "I chased him off with my gun." I've listened to the stories of "media doesn't report" for years from my relatives and friends.

[X_Digger]

37. Well smack em for me..

Those stats are damned hard to quantify- they depend on self-reporting, and as such, are subject to a lot of bias.

If you take the absolute lowest estimate that I can recall, it's about 1.5m defensive uses of guns per year. (I exclude the brady campaign's figures as well as NRA as outliers in both directions.)