Concealed weapons on the D.C. mall?

[urgk]

Ok, maybe I'm getting a little (more) paranoid, but:

1. There is a concerted effort to undermine D.C. gun laws.

“The proposed Ensign Amendment, which among other things, would prohibit the District of Columbia from enacting legislation on firearms, would have a serious public safety impact for the entire region...Government facilities, dignitaries and public servants are prime targets for terrorists, both foreign and domestic...But in Washington, D.C., the likelihood of attack is higher and the challenges to protecting the city are greater.” (http://tinyurl.com/r3vlnf)

2. There is a concerted effort to get a bill passed allowing guns in national parks. http://www.connpost.com/breakingnews/ci_12406426


3. The National Mall is also a national park. http://www.nationalmall.org/


Whether it's an effort to actively destabilize D.C. or not, wouldn't it have that cumulative effect? Shouldn't an administration that tends to be unpopular with gun nuts be at least a little concerned?

Maybe a little translation of OK Senator Tom Coburn is in order:

"Visitors to national parks should have the right to defend themselves in accordance with the laws of their states."

Could soon be

"Visitors to the National Mall should have the right to carry loaded weapons in accordance with the newly changed laws of Washington, D.C."

[msongs]

1. gun whackos run amok using fear of a black president nt

[X_Digger]

16. You have that on macro, don't you?

No coherent response, just blather on.

[onehandle]

23. I would say that not all gun owners are "whackos" but...

"gun whackos run amok using fear of a black president" is Exactly the state of gun politics in the gun community these days.

[gorfle]

32. I beg to differ.

Really, I do. I for one don't give a single flip what color someone is, leastwise President Obama, other than to be happy to see a black person finally rise to the highest office of the land.

I look forward to the day when no one gives a shit about color.

I believe the thing that is driving "gun politics" right now is the fact that the last time we had a Democratic president we had a gun ban, and firearm owners have long memories. These memories were reinforced by the fact that until very recently reinstating a firearm ban was part of President Obama's published Urban Policy on whitehouse.gov.

These facts, combined with the fact that we have very powerful politicians in place now (like Nancy Pelosi) who have a terrible track record regarding the second amendment have driven firearm owners into a state of panic.

I'm sure there are racist fuckwads out there who are somehow inspired to buy more firearms because we have a black president, though I don't see how you put those two together.

But the driving issue right now is the traditional Democratic party's hostility towards the second amendment and the fear that they will act again as they have historically done.

[SteveM]

52. This is another tired ploy to equate "gun-rights" with racism...

It has been tried before in these and other pages, but the reality of the matter is that many Northern inner-city blacks must suffer disarmament by post-Jim Crow laws in places like D.C., Chicago, N.Y., etc. The expansion of Second Amendment rights has come due to 2A activism, and the general strengthening of civil rights and legal protections which grew out of the 60s. It is ironic that most gun-control measures which have been enacted or are proposed can find their tried & true ancestors living in the wood pile of Southern states.

The D.C., Chicago and N.Y. have become the new moss-draped backwaters.

[rl6214]

47. WTF?

Do you really believe anything that comes out of your mouth? Show me where any concealed carry permit holders are going to "run amok"?

[SteveM]

51. He eats, shoots and runs (nt)

[DS1]

2. fucking cowards

I can't imagine what it's like to live in fear all the time

[Raskolnik]

4. I'm not sure what "cowards" you're talking about.

People that own guns? Politicians? Rotarians?

[MicaelS]

7. You must mean the people who are afraid of guns...

The kind of guns that just jump out of people's closets and drawers and start shooting in all directions.

[DS1]

8. I tend to avoid people carrying around their closets and drawers in the first place

[SteveM]

53. I WEAR by drawers, thank you! (nt)

[jmg257]

21. Me neither! (BTW, who does?)

[paulsby]

28. protecting oneself is not living in fear

i have housing insurance against fire.

an EXTREMELY unlikely event.

i don't live in fear of it.

but i have protection against it.

hth

[NewMoonTherian]

34. I agree.

But the VPC, the Brady Campaign, Handgun Control Inc. and all the citizens they've duped with their rhetoric live every single day terrified of their fellow citizens because they might legally be carrying a gun with which to protect themselves and those around them. They seem to completely ignore the notion of criminals who would actually seek to harm them though.

[Euromutt]

37. Neither can I

You are talking about the Brady Campaign types who say they'd be too afraid to into a National Park if concealed carry where permitted (where permitted by state and local laws), and people who fret about how any gun owner might "just snap" and shoot a spouse or neighbor or some other person in a fender-bender, right? Because yeah, I can't get my head around that kind of irrational fear.

[ThomWV]

3. I never knew I couldn't carry my pistol onto a national park - been doing it for years

I camp in national parks frequently on my motorcycle rides around the country. I cary a pistol on these trips.

[AtheistCrusader]

57. Trips to national parks, or national forests?

National Forests is fine, State Parks will vary based on local state law, but if you did that in National Parks, you were breaking the law.

[TheWraith]

5. Since you still can't legally purchase a handgun in DC despite the SCOTUS ruling...

...that that was unconstitutional, legally owned guns of any kind in Washington are unlikely to be an issue.

Besides which, what's the big gripe? Licensed concealed-carry people have a lower rate of committing violent crime than do the police. It's the non-law-abiding people who you have to worry about.

[urgk]

10. How about, say the Blackwater employees?

I bet they don't commit many day-to-day crimes.

[ThomWV]

11. They're in Virginia - you can buy anything short of a nuclear weapon in Virginia

and maybe even one of those.

[TheWraith]

But only if you shop at Langley. nt

[jeepnstein]

27. Do they have outlet malls there?

[TheWraith]

15. A perfect example of people not authorized to have weapons carrying them anyway.

Like I said, the guys to watch out for.

[one-eyed fat man]

56. Blackwater aren't the only hired guns in the Capitol

In 1986 Kennedy bodyguard Chuck Stein was arrested in the U.S. Capitol building for carrying an unregistered handgun, two machine guns, and 146 rounds of ammunition. Kennedy attempted to have the charges dropped.

With apologies to Harry Truman, "Yes he's a hypocrite, but he's OUR hypocrite?"

[HopeHoops]

6. It isn't just that the gun nuts are afraid all the time - they are afraid of something they deny!

These are the same people who claim the government is too incompetent to do anything right. Why would they suspect that same government to be able to come take their guns?

Oh wait. I forgot. They're fucking morons.

[konnichi wa]

12. I swear it looks like you just called half of DU "fucking morons."

Why would you do something like that?
:eyes:

[HopeHoops]

13. Oh I don't think so at all!

While half of DU might feel the government is incompetent, I doubt they are worried about the government taking their guns!

[TheWraith]

17. He's referring to the polls that say half of DUers own guns. nt

[konnichi wa]

18. You clearly implied that "gun nuts" (whatever that means) are the SAME people

who worry about the government taking their guns. And that they are fucking morons. You can't weasel out of it that easily...it's pretty obvious what you really meant (and wrote.)

[HopeHoops]

20. I just don't think DU has many "gun nuts". I own guns, but I'm not a gun nut.

I think the government is a mix of incompetent and functional, but I'm not worried about them taking my guns. All I was referring to are the paranoid sorts that would sport that bumper sticker that says "My wife yes, my dog maybe, my gun never". I doubt they frequent DU, but yes they are morons.

[jmg257]

22. Interesting...do you think they "won't" (re: no bans etc.), or "can't"? (re:functional)? nt

[HopeHoops]

26. Curiously, both.

I think they "won't" because there's no reason to and certainly no political incentive to do so.

I think they can't because it would require a carefully planned and nationally coordinated secret effort to even try it and they can't even keep the details of an upcoming "secret" press conference out of the news.

It is just a silly notion overall as far as I'm concerned.

[rl6214]

48. Who the fuck are you

to think that you know anything about what a huge group of americans are thinking? To do this show your narrow minded idiocy and that YOU are the "fucking moron".

[peace13]

9. As someone who has been on the Mall with almost 2 million of my closest friends...

this is not a good idea. If my state lets me carry a loaded gun can I carry it in an airport? No, because the airport has special rules and so should Federal Lands!

[paulsby]

30. you CAN carry in an airport

in many jurisdictions. i have .

you cannot carry in the SECURE areas of an airport, but the airport in general is legal in many jurisdictions.

i have carried on an airplane fwiw, but that was during an extradition, and at which point i am digressing :)

[rl6214]

49. Yes you can carry in an airport

I do it all the time. You just can't carry in the secured areas.

[one-eyed fat man]

54. I keep a gun in my airplane.

Back when I was stationed in Alaska it was required equipment. Part of the survival gear every pilot was required to have in the plane. A little .22 that breaks down and stores inside its own stock and made to float. Used to be made by Charter Arms but some other company still makes them now, I think. A brick of .22 and a gill net can harvest a fair amount of food if you need it.

[Jackson1999]

58. The AR7!!

I want one, if only for its use in From Russia With Love. Henry Repeating Arms makes them now. The Charter Arms version was supposed to be shite.

[one-eyed fat man]

59. Charter Arms

Problem was spare mags were hard to get and after-market ones were really bad. It wasn't much, but would be perfect for potting spruce grouse, aka fool hens. The compact size and lightweight is what made it sought after. Every pound of useful load devoted to required equipment was a pound you didn't have for payload.

Yep, from "Russia with Love" old Sean Connery had an IR sight and wreaked more havoc with that thing that a platoon of paras with FALs!

[jmg257]

14. Hmm..I could see how DC gun laws would keep terrorists from attacking prime targets.

After all, they work so well preventing other crimes.


That's why DC is only number 1 in murder, robbery, and assault.



NO sense in undermining such success! ;)

[X_Digger]

19. Doesn't allow concealed carry on the mall..

This measure just lets states decide (as they do for state parks and national forests.)

[jeepnstein]

24. Does D.C allow concealed carry?

No, they do not.

If D.C. did allow it I wouldn't have a problem with permit holders doing so under normal circumstances.

Learn a little bit about the laws in question and you won't be nearly as afraid.

[urgk]

36. I tried to learn a bit.

And it seems you can have a CCW permit in DC. At least to my admittedly inexpert eyes.

"The Chief of Police of the District of Columbia may, upon the application of any person having a bona fide residence or place of business within the District of Columbia or of any person having a bona fide residence or place of business within the United States and a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by the lawful authorities of any State or subdivision of the United States, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol within the District of Columbia for not more than 1 year from date of issue, if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear injury to his or her person or property or has any other proper reason for carrying a pistol and that he or she is a suitable person to be so licensed. The license shall be in duplicate, in form to be prescribed by the Mayor of the District of Columbia and shall bear the name, address, description, photograph, and signature of the licensee and the reason given for desiring a license. The original thereof shall be delivered to the licensee, and the duplicate shall be retained by the Chief of Police of the District of Columbia and preserved in his or her office for 6 years. (July 8, 1932, 47 Stat. 651, ch. 465, § 6; 1973 Ed., § 22-3206; 1981 Ed., § 22-3206; May 21, 1994, D.C. Law 10-119, § 15(e), 41 DCR 1639.)"

[Euromutt]

38. Theoretically, yes

As I understand it, the Chief of Police does issue a very small number of permits, but only to retired cops, and very few of those. As a private citizen with no law enforcement background, you have a snowball's chance in hell of getting a CCW permit in DC.

[urgk]

41. Ok, then. Thanks. I appreciate the info. n/t

[Jackson1999]

43. Nope. Not any more

That went away this past December. New laws were passed saying no concealed carry. The bright side is that now DC residents can apply for Penn. out of state carry permits, which are recognized by a half dozen states.

[X_Digger]

40. On the books, but not issuing any more..

Per a city ruling in 87 or 88.

DC probably prohibits carry in parks (can't find the legislation offhand, my google-fu is weak tonight.)

[urgk]

42. Thanks to you, too.

The R's are making me edgy. It's hard to not jump at everything they do.

[Jackson1999]

44. Not true

The totally axed CCWs this past December. Even in theory.

[X_Digger]

46. Thanks for the update!

I was abreast of the DC rules last year around the time of heller, but I hadn't been keeping up.

[Jackson1999]

50. No prob. I live...

in "the belly of the beast" so I follow this closely.

[SteveM]

55. Classic Jim Crow: when subterfuge fails, just ban it/them outright (nt)

[Jackson1999]

45. This was recently removed nt

[slackmaster]

25. DC is not even obligated to issue concealed weapons permits

This is knee-jerk paranoia.

[Tim01]

29. Violent criminals carry guns on the D.C. mall right now.

I have met some of them. They are gangsters and crack dealers. And they are on the D.C. mall with guns.
D.C. has a very high violent crime rate.

Banning guns in D.C. has exactly the effect as banning gay marriage. It only hurts innocent people.


By the way, criminals think you are a stupid pussy if you pay attention to laws and you are asking to be a victim.

[friendly_iconoclast]

31. Ah, but some people *need* the fantasy that laws stop that kind of thing

Let's face it- if someone wants to carry a concealed gun on the National Mall, they will probably get away with it.
I've noticed that the idea of CCW holders carrying around them in public worries some people
more than the reality that others are already carrying (illegally) around them in public.

If the laws don't change, the they can pretend that the bad guys aren't packing heat

[urgk]

39. Honestly, I'm not worried about the gangsters and crack dealers.

And I could care less what they think of me. I'm not really one of those people who thinks I can buy my way to immortality. I could mow down a lifetime of muggers, home-invaders, and addicts and still have an aneurysm or get hit by falling space junk. I'll die someday and if it's a crack dealer who does me in, so be it.

I'm more worried about the right-wing yahoos I've met online who hate "Big Government" and drive out to the countryside in muscle cars to unload on old TV sets. I'm worried about Tim McVeigh. And anybody who blindly follows Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman. I believe in this administration and want to see how much good it can do in the next 4-8 years.

Now, some of the DUers who know more about gun laws than I do have posted that this law doesn't change much for the National Mall. I'll default to them on this and I'll try not to worry so much.

[Jackson1999]

33. YOU CANNOT BRING WEAPONS ON THE MALL

Sorry for the caps., but I wanted to be clear on this. DC issues NO concealed carry permits. The proposed Ensign amendment on the DC voting rights act leaves all power to regulate concealed carry with the DC council.

Since there is no concealed carry, you cannot carry your gun on the Mall or any other national park property in DC.

I really hate the way this was positioned by the MSM as "allows people to carry loaded guns in National Parks." They just as easily said that it "Extends state gun laws to national parks in that state."

[benEzra]

35. No, not at all.

The new National Park law merely reverts carry rules back to the states, like they were before James Watt (yes, that James Watt, Reagan's infamous Secretary of the Interior) decreed that states could not set their own carry rules on "his" lands. Now, state rules will apply once again, just like they used to, and like they have always applied in National Forests and BLM lands.

D.C. does not have concealed carry licensure, so there are no license holders to legally carry on the D.C. mall. However, I hold an NC carry license, so I will be able to discreetly carry here in NC while camping with my family in the GSMNP, visiting the Outer Banks, or driving up the Blue Ridge Parkway.

The Brady Campaign has been putting out some pretty far-out scaremongering recently about the proposal, though, so it is understandable that you might think the rules changes go much further than they actually do.