Two killed in Arizona graduation shooting

[panzerfaust]

Source: Sydney Morning Herald (Oz)

Two people were killed and six others - two of them children - were wounded in a shooting at a high school graduation party, police said on Sunday...

Preliminary information indicated that Banks was an invited guest who got into a physical fight with his ex-wife late on Saturday, Sergeant Wessing said.

He allegedly went to his vehicle, got a gun, returned to the party and opened fire, killing his 38-year-old ex-wife and a 32-year-old man, Sergeant Wessing said.

He said six others suffered minor injuries. They included a 10-year-old boy who was grazed on the head and an eight-year-old boy injured by bullet fragments...

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/two-killed--in-arizona-graduation-shooting-20090525-bk1m.html

---

Another straight-shooter.

We simply need MORE guns.

If only the party-goers had all been armed?

[Confusious]

1. If only the party-goers had all been armed?

Weeel deen, day would have gotten dat som' a biotch!

An' de dog, an de neiboor, an de mailman, an de ...

[Raskolnik]

29. Wow, I don't know what ethnic group you are trying to parody, but that is some high-quality stuff.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Captain Hilts]

3. If only everybody there had had a firear!. nt

[superconnected]

32. Especially the small children. Then far more than a 10 yo could have been grazed.

[rocktivity]

4. "...(W)hen police arrived, patrol cars were hit by gunfire

and one officer was shot in the left arm..." He's lucky to be alive. And I wouldn't be surprised if the man killed was the ex-wife's date.

Two weekends ago, I attended my nephew's college graduation. Yes, there was some bad blood between some of the relatives at the after-party, but you know what? Everyone decided that showing our nephew a good time was slightly more important than redress of our personal grievances, so we checked our problems at the door.

:(
rocktivity

[JonLP24]

13. Considering it was the Mesa police it is a miracle he is still alive

They have shot people in the past for alot less then this.

[shadowknows69]

5. OJ didn't need a gun.

[kirby]

6. Knife vs Gun homicides...

In 2007 - 1796 murders using 'cutting instruments' versus 10086 murders using firearms. Now tell me which one has killed more people. And also consider that just about everyone/every home has a knife, but not a gun.

[shadowknows69]

7. No, I'm not playing, I was being snarky

It never ceases to amaze me that every story about a tragedy like this on DU instantly becomes a pissing match. Me, I'm a little more for just feeling compassion for victims before I wade into the political soup about it.

[superconnected]

33. Excellent post!

[pkdu]

8. all armed with panzerfausts ! :O) n/t

[xchrom]

9. recommend

[JonLP24]

10. Not enough info

I'm from Mesa and it doesn't say where this happened. I'll keep searching.

[JonLP24]

11. 2400 West Javelina, it is near Dobson and Broadway

That is about 4 miles away from me, I live near Alma School and University. I'm suprised this made national news, shootings aren't unusual in Mesa.

[depakid]

17. delete

[L0oniX]

12. YAwn ...another anti gun nut post ...trying to divide Dems and the DU community.

Over 50% of DU members own guns. I guess we should get rid of them and depend on the police to get to our homes in time to save us ....yea right ...like that's going to happen. If you really want to be unbiased about this (and I doubt you do) you can Google "gun defense" and see for yourself all the instances of gun owners defending themselves and others. Oh but it's not as shocking to post instances where a gun owner rightly uses a gun for defense is it.

[Arctic Dave]

14. What's stopping you?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

38. The moderators won't allow defensive gun posts anywhere but the gun forum.

At least they threatened to ban me if I continued to post them to general discussion instead of the gun forum. I have abided by the rules, I wish other posters would do the same.

David

[grantcart]

15. lol anti gun nut lol that is too too rich.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

19. Are you trying to ignore the problem

The problem is not about the guns themselves, it's about the easy access/purchase of firearms. I personally think it should be harder for one to purchase a firearm. In the UK, you get an interview in order to get a license to purchase a firearm. You cannot use "self-defense" as an answer. You are required to purchase a government-approved gun safe which can be bolted to the wall. The gun and the ammunition are kept separate. If the government trusts you to own a firearm, you then get the privilege to purchase a firearm.

I think that's a reasonable compromise. Tougher stance on gun laws here. Shut down the gun shows and STOP glorifying your firearms.

[slackmaster]

24. No, the problem is mixing firearms and alcohol

No drinking is permitted on my gun shoots until all weapons have been cleaned and secured.

[beevul]

48. What?

"I think that's a reasonable compromise."

A compromise means both sides give a little.

What is the side that you are on giving?

Or does compromise mean something else, the way you are using it?

[FunkyLeprechaun]

49. I think that a compromise would be

allowing the "law abiding citizens" to keep their firearms but government makes it harder to purchase firearms. Such as closing down the gun shows and putting limits on how many guns a manufacturer can make.

How's that for you?

[Statistical]

54. Of course facts suck....

In US less than 1% of firearms used in crime come from gunshows. That is from that right wing organization known as the Department of Justice.

Making less guns.... really. 99.9% of firearms are used responsibly.

Would making less cars cause less highway deaths?
Making less pools cause less drownings?
Making less tall objects cause less falls?

Falls, automobile accidents, and drownings kill more children each year than firearms.

[inkool]

57. Your compromise is lacking in compromise.

You offer nothing which is not already had in return for more regulation.

[Taitertots]

60. Where is the compromise?

I don't see any compromise.


How about open the NFA registry, end the 922r, and universal national right to carry, and in exchange we will offer you the end of private transfers, national background checks for purchase, and a 40 round magazine limit.

[aikoaiko]

78. I like compromises. Will you agree to lifting all federal bans on manufacturing/importing arms

in return?

[Statistical]

53. Yet UK has higher violent crime rate than the United States.... strange n/t

As long as people aren't being robbed, rapped, and assaulted with guns it is A-OK though.

[Israfel4]

56. The U.S. doesn't "glorify" firearms, just violence.

If t.v. and movies used more swords, bow & arrow, lances, axes etc... would you accuse the U.S. of "glorifying" those as well????

[Howzit]

67. "If the government trusts you... "

This, in a nut shell is what "gun control" is about.

If the government doesn't trust you by default, should you trust the government?

[Caliman73]

69. In the United States we are not subjects to our government

Trust from our government is not a prerequisite to practice the right to own a firearm. The problem is not guns, nor access to them. The problem is unchecked mental health problems, glorification of violence, and the unreasonable demand for quick resolution to problems. The problem was that this man thought that a reasonable response to his anger was to commit violence on people.

[krispos42]

77. UK gun homicides are at record lows.

Total homicides, however...




Well, GUN homicides are at record lows!

[villager]

22. the degree of empathy you display for the shooting victims is both typical and telling

n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. Never miss an opportunity to turn someone's tragedy into your personal political soapbox.

[Euromutt]

51. Strange how you're not taking the OP to task

I didn't see a whole lot of sympathy expressed for the victims; nope, straight into the political rhetoric. But that doesn't seem to bother you at all. Why, it's almost as if you were wielding a double standard...

[superconnected]

34. It would help if you gun owners would quit doing like your compatriot in the article.

It would also help if your kids quit getting your guns and killing people - especially your own family members.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. You mean the miniscule fraction of legal gun owners that commit crimes every year.

[depakid]

16. This stuff makes news in Australia

even if it's become too mundane an occurence for most of the American media.

I think partially the reason for that many who are old enough to remember, think:

There but for the grace of our 1996 firearms buyback and licensing & storage restrictions go we....

[Euromutt]

52. I'm sure that's news to Judy Galante

There's no way she could have been shot dead by her husband in 2006, because you had those buybacks and licensing restrictions. And the Melbourne Central Business District shooting (1 dead, 2 wounded) in 2007, that didn't occur either, right? Nor the Monash University shooting (2 dead, 5 wounded) in 2002. Not to mention that series of organized crime murders in Melbourne from 1998 until 2006 (34 dead).

Just remember that part of the reason the US has more crime than Australia is because the US has 300 million people, whereas Australia has 21 million.

[Statistical]

55. Australia also has higher violent crime rate than the US.

Not only that the buglary rate is almost double and rape rate is nearly triple.

Good ole safe Australia. You may be part of a home invasion, get robbed, then raped, then your throat cut but at least there are no guns involved.

Yay. Progressives for Statist solutions.

[Taitertots]

62. The poster child for the anti-second amendment crowd gets taken to task n/t

[FunkyLeprechaun]

18. This and the Harvard University shooting

Is yet another example of why we need gun control. Having guns in National Parks isn't a good idea nor is having guns on school campuses a good idea. The RKBA people simply do not get it.

The LBN thread about the Harvard University shooting dropped like a stone without comment from the RKBA people. Makes me wonder if they want to ignore the problem so their agenda gets heard.

One person has already chose to ignore the problem in this thread. We need to talk about this instead of butchering the 2nd amendment to suit your purpose. I've tried to reason with people in the gun forum (example of compromise) and all I get is "law-abiding gun owners should have the right to keep and bear arms" completely missing the point of my arguments.

It's more about my right to go out in public and not worry about being shot. These young kids were celebrating completing their education and this happens? These events are going to keep happening unless something gets done about gun control.

[Tansy_Gold]

20. You're probably wasting your time. And I agree with you

The 2nd Amendment has been elevated above all other. Above any and all other constitutional guarantees.

Therefore it does no good whatsoever to argue with them, reason with them. Their belief in the sanctity of RKBA is stronger than anything and it is absolute, brooking no restrictions, no requirements, no regulations. Theirs is not a rational argument but an emotional one, and emotions do not listen to logic or reason.


Tansy Gold

[Taitertots]

59. That is an obvious lie

The vast majority of gun owners support most of the current gun legislation currently in existence. The NRA backing most of the current regulations. The NCIS, the NFA system, and most of the 1968 GCA.

[spin]

68. Responsible firearm owners are not opposed to restrictions...

that serve a purpose.

Gun owners do oppose "feel good" laws such as the Assault Weapons Ban. We also resent the lies and the misrepresentations used to encourage support for these ineffective laws.

If anything, the pro RKBA supporters use facts and logic to support their argument. Those who oppose firearms prefer the emotional debate.

[friendly_iconoclast]

71. I call BS on your post- Give us an example from here on DU

Go ahead, we're waiting....

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. Butchering the Constitution, what a novel idea you have George.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

50. Project much, Dave?

Yet again someone who doesn't get it and misinterprets the Constitution to boot!

[gorfle]

58. Can you tell me the difference?

Having guns in National Parks isn't a good idea nor is having guns on school campuses a good idea.

Why is it that if it's OK for someone to have an extensive background check, including fingerprinting, and obtain a concealed carry permit, and safely and responsibly walk down main street while armed and surrounded by hundreds of their fellow men, women, and child citizens, but they cannot do so in a park or on a campus?

[spin]

70. Curiosity prompts me. Since you hail from the UK...

what's your opinion of knife violence in your country?

My interest stems mainly from the fact that I enjoy collecting knives and have a small collection of these tools. Sometimes I encounter posts on forums describing the draconian knife laws that have been passed to reduce knife violence. Sometimes newspaper articles such as this:

THE full extent of Britain’s violent crime epidemic, which yesterday claimed the life of another teenager, is revealed in shocking new figures that show the number of street robberies involving knives has more than doubled in two years.

Attacks in which a knife was used in a successful mugging have soared, from 25,500 in 2005 to 64,000 in the year to April 2007. The figures mean that each day last year saw, on average, 175 robberies at knife-point in England and Wales – up from 110 the year before and from 69 in 2004-5.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2284258.ece

I also read that there was a movement to ban kitchen knifes in the U.K.

Doctors' kitchen knives ban call

Doctors say knives are too pointed
A&E doctors are calling for a ban on long pointed kitchen knives to reduce deaths from stabbing.

A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.

They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.

The research is published in the British Medical Journal.

The researchers said there was no reason for long pointed knives to be publicly available at all.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

As I type this, I have two knifes with me. Both I believe would be illegal to carry in the UK and some states in the U.S. However, in Florida they are not prohibited.

One is a fixed blade plain edged knife with a 4" blade. I use this knife primarily for tasks involving light cutting and food prep as it is very easy to clean.


Bark River Classic Lite Hunter

The other knife is a locking pocket knife with a fully serrated 4" blade which I use for heavy cutting jobs.


Spyderco Endura

I could add that I'm glad we had that little spat with your country many years ago. We ended up with a constitution that has things like the Second Amendment. Of course we also missed out on all the fun of watching the Royal Family and all their escapades.

But then you did end up with a better health care plan.

[Howzit]

72. Harvard University shooting discussed here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x223518

[Blue_Tires]

21. local coverage: the shooter's son was also hit

Suspect almost left but came back with guns

The nice woman down the street extended an invitation to Jonathan Fink: Would he like to come to a party held for her daughter, who was just graduating from Dobson High School?

But when the time came on Saturday night, Fink was worn out from a hard day of home improvements. Besides, something didn’t feel right.

Hours later, police tactical units were swarming through Fink’s Dobson Ranch neighborhood in the aftermath of a shooting that left the woman and her boyfriend dead.

Police said 38-year-old Sally S. Johnson-Huddleston and 32-year-old Auston G. Blanks were killed by her ex-boyfriend late Saturday night. The gunman wounded seven others, including the 8-year-old son he had with Johnson-Huddleston and a responding Mesa police officer.

Brent Matthew Banks, 38, of Phoenix surrendered to authorities around 2 a.m. Sunday.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/139617

[slackmaster]

23. Let me take a wild guess...

Alcohol was involved.

We simply need MORE guns.

If only the party-goers had all been armed?

Thanks for dragging out that tired old straw man pre-emptively.

[proteus_lives]

25. Yawn.

Blame the guns, blame the guns.

I have never understood why anti-gunners refuse to blame the criminals that use the guns.

I guess they were all under the control of those evil, evil guns.
:sarcasm:

[Arugula Latte]

27. Oh, look, yet another "Yawn" reply by a gun person.

Death and carnage ... it's all so "ho hum."

[proteus_lives]

30. No, it's not "ho hum"

It's a tragedy and the person that did it needs to be punished.

But's not use it as an excuse to start taking away peoples rights.

[superconnected]

35. Right, a gun owner, just like you, decided to go get his gun and kill someone

as they do everyday, and you get your panties in a bunch that someone would connect the fact that it's again a gun owner and maybe they ought to regulate guns so people like you - gun owners, can quit murdering people. Gee...

I know if I owned axes, and people kept killing others with axes in the news everyday, I would'nt go out of my way to attack people for pointing out it's yet again, an axe person .

[proteus_lives]

43. Miss

I'm not attacking for anyone for out the gun, I'm laughing at them blaming the gun instead of the psycho pulling the trigger.

"as they do everyday, and you get your panties in a bunch that someone would connect the fact that it's again a gun owner and maybe they ought to regulate guns so people like you - gun owners, can quit murdering people. Gee..."

Wow, broadbrush much? I have never killed anyone and I don't know any gun-owners who have. It's amazing to watch someone on DU turn into a freeper.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

44. Criminals illegally possessing firearms commit the vast majority of murders.

It's really not that hard to understand if you just use your head.

David

[Euromutt]

74. No, not "just like me"

I just pointed this out elsewhere, but I suspect this guy had major issues with his ex-girlfriend, seeing as how the police report states he argued with her briefly before hitting and kicking her. Sounds to me like this guy was a poster boy for the Lautenberg Amendment; that's the law that prohibits people with a misdemeanor conviction for domestic violence from owning guns. Many gun owners hate it, but I think it's a good idea. But then, I've rarely struck a woman, and never a current or former "intimate partner."

Moreover, this guy had two loaded guns in his car, which suggests some degree of malice aforethought to my mind; I think he was at least considering shooting his ex and her new boyfriend, possibly planning it. He didn't "just snap." Nobody ever "just snaps."

An estimated 35-50% of American households contain firearms; even assuming only person per household is the actual gun owner, that's still 35-50 million gun owners. Criminological studies indicate that some 90% of American homicides are committed by persons with a prior criminal record, so at most 10% of homicides are committed by people who were, up to that moment, generally law-abiding citizens. So that's less than 1,700 homicides annually for 35-50 million legal gun owners; in other words, at worst, one out of every 20,588 gun owners (0.0049%) will commit a homicide (and it's more likely to be 1 out of 29,411--0.0034%--or fewer).

Just to provide some perspective, in 2004, there were 43,432 motor vehicle-related traffic fatalities in the US, and 198,888,912 licensed drivers. So, on average, one driver out of every 4,579 (0.02%) killed someone.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

40. Yet you couldn't be bothered for condolences only criticism of a DU member.

[villager]

45. The actual consequences of gun proliferation bore them...

...unlike the tumescence they feel from the "weapons" themselves!

[Deadric Damodred]

65. Exactly

Having the right to bear arms means that some people are going to die. It's tragic when it happens, but it happens. You don't go around disarming the public or just banning the cool-looking guns that you think are "too scary-looking" to own, just because a few people die. Is it possible that a person can be a law-abiding, gun-owning person for most of their lives, but then snap and kill some people with the guns they legally purchased? Yes. You can't stop that from happening without getting rid of the 2nd Amendment entirely; and that's not going to happen. Sorry, but shit happens.

If I have to chose between having a % of people die per year while being able to own guns, especially the cool-looking "assault weapons" and having a much lower % of people die per year while being gunless, I'll take my gun rights and consider that % collateral damage.

[Euromutt]

73. Nobody ever "just snaps"

Is it possible that a person can be a law-abiding, gun-owning person for most of their lives, but then snap and kill some people with the guns they legally purchased? Yes.

Highly unlikely. I recommend reading The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker; he argues that the standard "nobody saw this coming" reactions in the wake of violent incidents are pretty much never true. There are always what he calls "predictors" that should have tipped people off, if only they knew what to look for.

In this case, the shooter, Brent M. Banks, confronts his ex-girlfriend, Sally Johnson-Huddleston, when he finds her kissing her new boyfriend, Auston G. Blanks, in one of the bedrooms of the house. SJ-H's daughter (not by BMB) was one of the graduates whose party it was, and BMB and SJ-H had an 8 year-old son (one of the kids wounded). When BMB finds SJ-H kissing her new boyfriend, he starts a fight with her, hits and kicks her, then goes to his car, thinks about leaving (or so he told the cops later), but instead takes his two handguns out of the vehicle, walks back and shoots both SJ-H and AGB.

This did not come out of the blue; BMB and SJ-H must already have had issues, given the speed with which the argument escalated into violence, and inviting the two of them to the same party was obviously a mistake (albeit one of which the hosts may not have been aware). SJ-H bringing her current beau along was also a mistake. Sure, if BMB hadn't had guns in the car (or at all), SJ-H and AGB wouldn't have died (at least not right there), but the incident would still have put a damper on the party (at least, I think one guest beating up another tends to ruin a party) and that is a situation that should have been avoided as well.

And at the same time, I have to note that BMB had not one, but two loaded guns in the car, which makes me suspect the guy was planning, or at least considering, getting lethally violent.

[jeepnstein]

75. You could probably..

make a case for premeditated murder on this one. He leaves, has time to formulate a plan, returns and kills two people. That's the way I'd take it to the Grand Jury.

[Deadric Damodred]

76. I haven't read The Gift of Fear.

I'll have to read it, but without reading it, I can still make a guess on "predictors". Unless those predictors are exact things like specific threats, those predictors aren't going to stop anything. If a man has a bad break-up with a girlfriend, has a temper, is a jerk, owns guns, constantly argues with her, but hasn't ever hit her, then even though someone might call those predictors, there's no case there that can be legally made to take the man's guns. He's done nothing wrong, and you can't take his weapons because of what he "might" do if he hasn't made specific threats or been physically violent to her in the past. So those "predictors" might not mean too much.

[fascisthunter]

26. gun pushers... more guns less gun violence

okeedokee

[Raskolnik]

28. Its handy when you get to create your own silly positions, then respond dismissively to the same

isn't it?

[superconnected]

31. Guess he won't be on a gun nut on internet for a while. At least I don't think they have internet

access in prison.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

36. Never miss an opportunity to turn someone's tragedy into your personal political soapbox.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

37. What kind of idiot suggests arming everyone?

[slackmaster]

46. A brain-dead, thoughtless, Internet idiot

That's what kind of idiot.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. These repeated lies really do grow old.

[Taitertots]

61. So you can point to someone who advocates that position?

Of course you can't

[slackmaster]

63. Of course not, but it is a very common straw man

I found a dozen examples but the system trashed my post, and I don't have time to redo the work.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

66. That's the point, no sane person advocates that position, but we are accused of it constantly.

The OP accused people of holding that position in a round about way.

David

[Hoopla Phil]

64. More criminals doing criminal things. They should be put away a LOOONG time.