CHL permit holders responsible for three mass murders. At least someone thinks so.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

There have already been three confirmed mass shootings (among other homicides and violent crimes) committed by concealed carry permit holders this year: Neo-Nazi Richard Poplawski killed three police officers and wounded one in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on April 4; Michael McLendon killed ten and wounded six in Alabama on March 10; and Frank Garcia killed four and wounded one in upstate New York on February 14.

http://www.csgv.org/site/c.pmL5JnO7KzE/b.3924845/apps/s/content.asp?ct=7021445


Of course the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence couldn't be bothered to offer a source. According to Poplawski's mom he was dishonorably discharged from the Marines, I could find no mention of a CHL permit in the stories about Poplawski. Anyway I thought it would make for an interesting topic. You can find many of the gun grabbers talking points on the website also.

David

[jgraz]

1. Here y'go:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09097/961071-53.stm

Federal agents yesterday sought records from a Wilkinsburg gun dealership where Richard Poplawski, the accused killer of three Pittsburgh police officers, is believed to have purchased guns.

A man who has described himself as the suspect's best friend told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette yesterday that Mr. Poplawski owned four guns and obtained them all legally at Braverman Arms Co., on Penn Avenue in Wilkinsburg, passing the required background checks.

He said Mr. Poplawski also had a permit to carry a concealed weapon, which is issued by the Allegheny County sheriff's office and involves what the sheriff's office calls an "extensive background investigation."

"I've seen it. He showed it to me. He said 'Eddie, get one of these,'" said the friend, Edward Perkovic.

http://www.eprisenow.com/ent/news/local/article/shooter_prepared_at_home_leaves_hit-list/63317/

According to the Coffee County Sheriff’s Department, McLendon had obtained a current pistol permit.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/02/20/Accused-spree-killer-sought-gun-permit/UPI-29591235108323

ROCHESTER, N.Y., Feb. 20 (UPI) -- A man who allegedly went on a killing spree in upstate New York this month was rejected three times for a gun permit before a judge granted him one in 2007.

Frank Garcia, 35, of Hamlin applied for permits in 1995 and 2001, only to be turned down, The Democrat and Chronicle of Rochester (N.Y.) reported. In 2006, he tried again, was rejected, appealed and got the permit.

[X_Digger]

2. The only one I see confirmed is McClendon

Noting official re Poplawski, and Garcia had a 'pistol permit'- not a concealed handgun license (NY requires an ownership permit, a poster here detailed his wait for a permit.)

[Pullo]

3. Yeah , the same crap gets said about Jiverly Wong

Yes, he did have a permit to own a handgun, but not a CHL license to carry concealed in public.

[jgraz]

4. Read the articles. In both cases, "pistol permit" is a CHL.

Both Alabama and New York just call them something different.

[X_Digger]

5. Right, but Poplawski's 'permit' claim..

.. comes not from law enforcement, but a "friend".. unless you have a source quoting law enforcement?

And re http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/02/20/Accused-spree-killer-sought-gun-permit/UPI-29591235108323

Read the law in NY- you must have a permit to possess, and a _different_ permit to CHL. NY only hands those out to celebrities, pols, and connected individuals for the most part. The article above doesn't mention concealed at all, so I'd assert it's not likely to be considered a CHL.

[jgraz]

6. The evidence favors csgv's claim. Or do you have contradictory info?

Has the Allegheny sheriff issued a denial to this article? Has the paper published a correction?

[inkool]

9. Well the artical is some what suspect...

in that they call it a "permit to carry a concealed weapon" which does not exist in pa. It is called a License to Carry Firearm (LTCF). Sure it is a small thing, but when reporters get something simple wrong it makes me wonder what else they may have gotten wrong.

Also the sheriff by law can not disclose LTCF information. Including if someones does nor does not have one.

[jgraz]

14. "the sheriff by law can not disclose LTCF information" -- How does that make sense in this case?

Who could possibly be in favor of withholding this info in the case of a serious gun crime? Do they still need to protect this information if the suspect is convicted?
If he's dead?

[inkool]

16. In this case it makes perfect sense.

Poplawski is, in the eyes of the law, innocent until proven guilty. Also a judge has ordered the police, attorneys, etc not to disclose any information regarding the case to the press.

It should be noted that the information is only being withheld from the public. It is lawful to non publicly disclose LTCF information for law enforcement purposes.

[X_Digger]

11. In another article, they refused to comment re poplawski..

The sheriff's department has refused almost all comment (various articles.)

I wouldn't expect a correction until the police department has made some kind of statement- uncorroborated or unconfirmed at this point.

[TheWraith]

7. That's not true. In NY State as a whole, a pistol permit IS a CHL.

However, New York City doesn't recognize permits issued by the rest of the state for concealed carry. Those are the ones that are only issues to the upper class.

[X_Digger]

12. Sorry, that's what I meant. n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. So a permit to own a pistol in NY is a permit to carry a concealed handgun?

[krispos42]

21. bossy22 would know

He just recently got a CCW permit in NY state.

[Euromutt]

24. Yes and no

In principle, yes, a New York state pistol permit is also a concealed carry permit, provided the issuing authority hasn't attached any restrictions to the permit, e.g. that it's only valid for one's abode, or fixed place of work, or something like that. So while it's possible that Garcia's pistol permit allowed him to carry concealed, it's by no means a given.

[RamboLiberal]

10. I'm fairly sure Poplowski did have a carry permit

And he wasn't dishonorably discharged from the Marines. He was in basic training and got an administrative discharge. Marine Corp doesn't consider you truly a Marine until you graduate basic training. Marine Corp was very close-lipped on this case.

As of now until trial a judge imposed a gag order on everyone so not much new is coming out on the case.

CCL holders do commit crimes - but not at a very high rate. Be like saying Drivers License holders commit reckless driving. Same kind of analogy to me.

On edit more:

Dan Frankel: "I would think if someone is involved in assaulting somebody else that information should be shared."

But the law does not require the military to share details of a veteran's file to authorities conducting a background check on a gun sale. It only requires a check of discharge status.

A dishonorable discharge will prevent someone from buying a gun. But authorities do not have access to any other information.

Trooper Paul Anderson, State Police: "Since we don't have direct access to military records by picking up the phone and calling, say, the US Marine Corps and obtaining those records, we don't have any information on what information they provide to the federal system."

Peter Georgiades: "The system is sloppy. It's loose."

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/team4/19396728/detail.html

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

19. Thanks for the info.

His mother was quoted as saying he had been dishonorably discharged.

David

[RamboLiberal]

22. Yeah the local news media ran with that for awhile

But a lot of ex-Marines called in to clarify. And I think info did come out it was not a dishonorable but another type of discharge.

Also the permit info was from his friend who claimed Poplawski showed it to him.

Sheriff's department can't comment since they are under gag order as well.

[TheWraith]

8. If being a neo-Nazi isn't a good enough reason to deny a CCW license...

What the hell is considered a good enough reason by the Alleghany County sheriffs?

[X_Digger]

13. The protective order should have stopped it cold. n/t

[RamboLiberal]

15. Blame the system - when he purchased the guns

Nothing turned up on any info from a protective order which should've blocked the purchase or from the Marine who didn't release his records to any agency that would've flagged the purchase attempt.

[Israfel4]

17. WOW. So far 3 people with CHL's have killed people

when there are about 1 MILLION CHL holders!!!!! So whats the percentage of CHL holders that kill???? So, 3/1,000,000 = .000003%


I'm sure there are more than 1 million but I used that for a minimum.

[virginia mountainman]

18. I would bet, that your much more likely to be shot by a cop..

Than A CCW holder, anyone got any numbers on that?

[bossy22]

23. in any group of people

you will always find misfits

CHL holders are no exception to that rule