Suit Filed to End All Hunting...in NJ

[Superfly]

Despite the benefit of maintaining a hunting and trapping program, these anti-hunters want to dismiss all that and end hunting as we know it in the state of New Jersey (where I have personally hit 3 deer with cars over the years).

And, just to beat Carin to it, I have to ask: "Won't somebody please think of the children?" :evilgrin:
---------------------

Link

Anti-hunters today filed a lawsuit against the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection to suspend all hunting, fishing and trapping.

The U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance Foundation is looking into the merits of the case to determine what action to pursue.

The case alleges that the New Jersey Division of Fish and Wildlife has issued sporting licenses to convicted felons. To avoid future instances, the plaintiffs are asking Judge Susan Reisner of the Superior Court of New Jersey to suspend all hunting, fishing and trapping licenses until a background check system for all license buyers is put into place.

[theivoryqueen]

1. You might not like my reply

but I am totally down with this or any other action that causes people to stop and consider all ramifications of sport killing.

[Superfly]

2. I may not like your reply, but I expected it.

....

[theivoryqueen]

3. Nice to see open-mindedness here. It's on vacation everywhere else.

[Superfly]

4. If you can say that from my response, you must be

the best mind reader in the world.

[MrBenchley]

8. Sounds good to me too...

Especially if the Department has been handing out licenses as alleged....

[a2birdcage]

5. I really do..........

feel sorry for anyone that lives in that shithole state. It is becoming the Kalifornia of the east. I hate to see places like that influence the rest of the country like they have in the past. Sorry to hear the bad news.

[MrBenchley]

9. Yeah...

Democratic governor, newly Democratic legislature...thanks for calling it a shiithole just beccause we donn't let ninnies have assault weapons.

[a2birdcage]

23. I'm just glad.........

I still live in a free state. If you have no problem with your state telling what you can and can't have then good for you. I on the other hand love my freedom and the choice to do whatever I like just as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. NJ is a state where you no longer have these choices. This is why it IS a shithole. It has nothing to do with what political party is in office. Nice try though Bench.

[Superfly]

24. That's not the only reason NJ is a shithole

My short list of reasons:

- GS Parkway....tolls every 3 miles in and around the Strathmore-Newark Metroplex
- Property taxes make it impossible for a young family to live in adequate housing without going up to their noses in debt, putting the kids in day care, and taking on 2 jobs.
- Because people in NJ can't seem to NOT steal things, like cars, insurance rates are astronomical
- The highest concentration of A-holes outside NYC
- Governor's priorities and values so out of whack with rest of state, but he doesn't care...

And the list goes on and on.

[a2birdcage]

25. Wow!

What a fucking dump. I'm so thankful that I live thousands of miles from that place. Places like that make me puke. I bet people there are super uptight, always in a hurry and have no idea what's happening in the rest of the world around them. I hate to see good people like yourself stuck in such a scummy place.

[Superfly]

31. I'm not...I'm in Southern Virginia (VA Beach)

My wife is from Wildwood, so we visit her family often. Southern Jersey is quite nice, albeit very pricey for residents.

[beevul]

152. kinda funny...

I was browsing this thread, and my girlfriend was a lookin' over my shoulder. She starts laughing, and I ask her "whats so funny babe?"

She reminds me that she grew up in NJ and stayed there for a few years after highschool, then moved to New York. I'm like "ok? You told me that before babe."

She tells me that when she was living there and in NY that they had names for both states. She says everyone called NY "the armpit of America" and NJ "the asshole of America."

Made me laugh.

She has some verry interesting stories to tell also, and a couple scary ones. A few of her closest friends in highschool were from the BONANNO, COLOMBO, and GAMBINO "familys". She spent alot of time with some of them in the 70's, and saw ALOT happen.

[MrBenchley]

27. Gee....

Guess this means we've given up pretending that this story is anything other than hysteria from some hunters group....

[Superfly]

29. Nope....

New Jersey can fall into the Atlantic for all I care...The only good part of NJ is the shore from Avalon, south.

But, those quiet folk down there are paying (literally) for the stupidity of a state government they'd rather be without.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[MrBenchley]

26. Hahahahahaha....

"NJ is a state where you no longer have these choices."
Who the hell are you trying to kid?

[a2birdcage]

28. Jokes on you Belchy

Can I buy hollow point ammuntion in your state. Can I have high capacity magazines. Can I freely travel the roads without having to pay for ever three miles. What's it like to be a prisioner by your own state? What a fucking joke.

[Superfly]

32. Answers:

No.
Yes, but you'd be in violation of the law.
No, and it is so fucking annoying.

[MrBenchley]

34. Who are you trying to kid?

"Can I buy hollow point ammuntion in your state. Can I have high capacity magazines."
What the hell do you need with that?

"Can I freely travel the roads without having to pay for ever three miles."
Sure...you just have to know where the hell you're going and how to get there.

[Superfly]

36. Too, too funny.

"What the hell do you need with that? "
What the hell do you care?

"Sure...you just have to know where the hell you're going and how to get there."
Wrong again...you're going to pay, one way or the other. Whether draining your gas tank sitting in traffic or paying the incredibly high taxes in that state (and I use that term loosely).

[MrBenchley]

37. Who are you trying to kid, fly?

The public has a right to expect that lunatics and criminals not be running around with hollow point ammo and high capaccity magazines.

And I'll take NJ any day over Preacher Pat's stomping grounds...

[Superfly]

39. At least Preacher Pat is not curtailing the rights of the

citizens of VA. I really don't care what he has to say, I can always change the channel.

McGreevy on the other hand, is a lying sack of shit who has his hands deep in organized crime and union pockets.

[MrBenchley]

40. Who the hell are you kidding?

Sticking up for Pat Robertson...there's nothing too low for the RKBA crowd....

"McGreevy on the other hand, is a lying sack of shit who has his hands deep in organized crime and union pockets."
Prove it. I don't think you can...especially since you can't spell the guy's name.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Superfly]

59. Wow...You got me there! Man, I must be wrong

because I misspelled a guy's name.

Geeze, I stand in awe of your argumentative skills!

[MrBenchley]

60. Gee, it's REALLY noticeable

that you also don't have a speck of proof for the crap you were flinging at a prominent and respected Democratic governor....

[beevul]

50. The public...

"The public has a right to expect that lunatics and criminals not be running around with hollow point ammo and high
capaccity magazines."-MrBenchley


The public ALSO has a right to expect that if a member of that public is NOT a "lunatic" or a "criminal", that they be
presumed NOT to be a "lunatic" or a "criminal", and treated accordingly.

Is everyone in NJ a "lunatic" or a "criminal"?

[MrBenchley]

52. Gee, beev

Who else has a need for such things?

[beevul]

62. Gee Walley

Since when has life, and what one may or may not own been based on need?

[MrBenchley]

65. Gee, beev

It's called public safety and sanity. And it is more important to most people than some neurotic gun fetish. That's why an overwhelming majority of voters support gun control.

[Township75]

69. Umm, Bench...

I don't think you will find a ton of safety in banned hollow point New Jersey...try legal hollow point VT, NH, WV, and so forth.

[MrBenchley]

72. Gee, town

And that by you is an argument for LESS gun control? Sounds like a good reason for more.

[demsrule4life]

54. The ban on hollowpoints

is for everyone not just lunatics and criminals. Of course the idiots that voted for that ban have no idea that hollowpoints are much safer to use then ball ammo.

[solinvictus]

73. Hollow point ammunition in banned??!!??

Geez, hollow points are frangible and usually break up on impact with drywall or other light substances. Hell, I'd hate to live in apartment in Jersey with all the FMJ bullets flying about.

[DoNotRefill]

78. yeah....but what's the harm in a convicted felon having a fishing license?

hollowpoint bullets and high-cap magazines are hardly ever used in fishing....unless a stringer that can accept more than 10 fish is now a high cap magazine....

[a2birdcage]

38. It's not about need.

Do you need a microwave? No, but I want one. Do you need a car? No, but I want one. Do you need a bed? No, but I want one. Do you need a TV? No, but I want one. Almost everything that everyone has is out of want and not need. Now of course some people try to justify want with need but that's another story. Do I need a gun? No, but I want one. It's as simple and American as that. If you want to live in a place where you can only have what you need then you're in the wrong country Bench.

[MrBenchley]

41. Who are you trying to kid?

"Almost everything that everyone has is out of want and not need."
And so few of them are a threat to public safety.

"Do I need a gun? No, but I want one."
Whoop-dee-frigging-doo. And don't you already have one?

[a2birdcage]

42. Yeah, I have a few but so what.........

if I want one more. What do you care? I've never hurt anyone with any of them so why is it even any of your business? You just want everyone to be told what to do and what to own. You can't stand the thought of making up your own mind. You're a fucking slave and you don't even know it.

[MrBenchley]

44. Too too funny.....

"You can't stand the thought of making up your own mind. You're a fucking slave "
Geeze, birdcage, at least I'm not parroting gibberish from a racist piece of shit like Larry Pratt...or trying to pretend Gospelplow is anything but far right wing horseshit from the Christian Taliban.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

47. What else does anyone need?

It's tragic for the RKBA crowd that this story turns out to be horseshit.....

[a2birdcage]

48. A lot more than you'll ever have!

Where's all your support Bench. Opposition against you keeps growing stronger and stronger in this little take-off yet no one comes to your rescue. I wonder why that is? Even on a site that is more than likely anti no one wants to defend you. Hmmmm?

[MrBenchley]

55. Hahahahahaha!!

Judging from the sites you consider credible, I wouldn't want it.

[a2birdcage]

57. ?

Where's all your support Bench? Opposition against you keeps growing stronger and stronger in this little take-off yet no one comes to your rescue. I wonder why that is? Even on a site that is more than likely anti no one wants to defend you. Hmmmm?

[beevul]

53. Face the facts B

The anti gun side wants to choose for EVERYONE.

The pro gunners want everyone to chose for themselves.

Your position on guns closely mimics the fundie position on abortion.

"Geeze, birdcage, at least I'm not parroting gibberish from a racist piece of shit like Larry Pratt"-MrBenchley

Nope. Your parroting gibberish from a murderer like Barbara lipscomb.



Nice playmates ya got there.

I'll stand over here away from "sane" people like Barbara lipscomb and the "anti-choice" fundie crowd.

Nice playmates ya got there.
Chuckle.

[MrBenchley]

56. Facts, beev? Too frigging funny!

Tell us, since suddenly you want to hear about "facts"....what group is it supposedly filed this suit?

"Your position on guns closely mimics the fundie position on abortion."
Who the hell are you trying to kid?

[beevul]

61. Yeah Walley, facts

But don't let them get in your way.




Tell us again how the position of murder Barbara Lipscomb is somehow the sane position.

Tell us again how the fundies want to chose for everyone, but anti-gunners don't.

Tell us again how your not pimping the same agenda as murder Barbara Lipscomb.

Tell us again that attacking choice is somehow different in the case of abortion than it is with guns.

[MrBenchley]

64. So who's the group suing, beev?

"Tell us again that attacking choice is somehow different in the case of abortion than it is with guns."
Gee, beev, of course it is....except in the case of those with a REALLY severe gun fetish....

Believe it or not, for sane people guns are much less important than sex, or parenthood.

By the way, wonder what all those anti-reproductive choice politicans think about guns? You know, asswipes like AshKKKroft,m Trent Lott and Tom DeLay? Oh, yeah, they're peddling this bogus gun rights horseshit at the top of their lungs.

[beevul]

70. Lumpy

"Gee, beev, of course it is....except in the case of those with a REALLY severe gun fetish...."


Of course it isn't. Your just being trying to shed being just like the fundies. You attack a personal and private choice the same way they do. You try to take away that freedom to chose, just like they do. How long until some anti-choice grabber murders someone JUST LIKE THEY DO?


Oh, nevermind, that already happened.

Say hi to barb while your standing overthere with the "sane" people.


Chuckle.


"Believe it or not, for sane people guns are much less important than sex, or parenthood."

Oh, I believe it to be sure. It completely explains the sanity, or rather the lack there of,

someone who spends so much time attacking something less important than sex or parenthood.


"So who's the group suing, beev?"

Its Eddie Hascal, on accounta hes trying ta say larry and the rest of us don't need chewin gum......

[MrBenchley]

71. Too frigging funny, beev...

"Your just being trying to shed being just like the fundies."
Say what?

Again, what position do the anti-reproductive choice nutcases take on guns? Oh yeah, AshKKKroft, Tom DeLay, pREsident Turd and all those right wing humholes peddle that gun rights horseshit.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

80. Too TOO frigging funny.....

"grabbers DO try to attack and take away A PERSONAL AND PRIVATE CHOICE"
<sarcasm>Yes, what a sacred and private choice it is to have an assault weapon...</sarcasm>

"See, most of us people who really ARE sane"
Gee, one prerequisite for sanity would be the ability to distinguish between one's sex life and one's gun collection.

"What was it that I have seen so many times on this thread? You are known and associated by the company you keep?"
And for the THIRD FUCKING TIME, what position do all the anti-abortion crazies like Trent Lott, Tom DeLay and John AshKKKroft take on guns? Oh yeah, they all trumpet that dishonest gun rights bullshit.

[beevul]

84. And for the THIRD FU_kING TIME.....

"And for the THIRD FUCKING TIME, what position do all the anti-abortion crazies like Trent Lott, Tom DeLay and
John AshKKKroft take on guns? Oh yeah, they all trumpet that dishonest gun rights bullshit. "

I don't give a happy crap WHAT position someone takes on guns, a freedom hater is a freedom hater. Some may trumpet gun rights, but you seem to think that precludes them from being freedom haters. Being pro-gun is no more an exemption from being a freedom hater than being pro fishing or pro reproductive rights. It is the want to take away someones freedom of choice that defines freedom haters. Reguardless if that choice is about guns, reproductive rights,
freedom of choice in sexual preference,.....etc.

Aparently, you can't understand this.

Here it is again for the n'th time. This time read it until you get it.

Anti-reproductive rights=freedom hater (Like Trent Lott/Tom DeLay/John AshKKKroft, reguardless of thier position other issues)
Anti-freedom of religion=freedom hater.(reguardless of thier position other issues)
Anti-freedom FROM religion=freedom hater.(reguardless of thier position other issues)
Anti-racial/gender equality=freedom hater.(reguardless of thier position other issues)
Anti-gun=freedom hater. (like brady/vpc/MMM/gun grabbers, reguardless of thier position on other issues)
Anti-drug=freedom hater.(reguardless of thier position other issues)
Anti-freedom of press=freedom hater.(reguardless of thier position other issues)
Anti-freedom of speech=freedom hater.(reguardless of thier position other issues)
Anti-sexual preference choice=freedom hater.(reguardless of thier position other issues)

Is it becoming clear to you yet?

It is the want of the grabbers to take away from the rest of us the right to choose, that makes them no different than Trent Lott/Tom DeLay/John AshKKKroft's desire to take away the right to choose. It makes them freedom haters.



Now then, nice SANE playmates the grabbers have there in the freedom hater "club".

[MrBenchley]

85. And for the FOURTH time

what position do all the ANTI-ABORTION, FREEDOM HATING, RACIST crazies like Trent Lott, Tom DeLay and John AshKKKroft take on guns? Oh yeah, they all trumpet that dishonest gun rights bullshit.

"I don't give a happy crap WHAT position someone takes on guns"
Yeah, surrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre........Who the hell do you think you're kidding?

[beevul]

92. So bloody what

"what position do all the ANTI-ABORTION, FREEDOM HATING, RACIST crazies like TRENT LOTT, TOM DELAY and JOHN
ASHKKKroft take on guns? Oh yeah, they all trumpet that dishonest gun rights bullshit."

It really doesn't matter what they're trumpeting, they're ANTI-ABORTION FREEDOM HATERS. They are no different than GUN GRABBING FREEDOM HATERS BECAUSE BOTH GROUPS ARE FREEDOM HATERS. Read this as many times as it takes for you to get it.


"I don't give a happy crap WHAT position someone takes on guns"-me


"Yeah, surrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre........Who the hell do you think you're kidding?"-MrBenchley


Try using the whole sentence. This is what I said:

I don't give a happy crap WHAT position someone takes on guns, a freedom hater is a freedom hater.

This means I DON'T CARE if they're pro-gun or not if they're already actively trying to deny a freedom to the people, MUCH LIKE TRENT LOTT, TOM DELAY and JOHN ASHKKKROFTT ARE, MUCH LIKE THE GUN GRABBERS ARE.
This means a pro-gun freedom hater is STILL A FREEDOM HATER, as in the case of Trent Lott/Tom DeLay/John AshKKKroft, BECAUSE they're ANTI-ABORTION, FREEDOM HATING, RACIST crazies, as you said. I AGREE WITH YOU. I just happen to see the gun grabbing freedom haters in the same light that I see the ANTI-ABORTION, FREEDOM HATING, RACIST FREEDOM HATERS. A freedom hater is a freedom hater, reguardless of thier pro-gun or pro-choice stripes.



I'm running out of simple ways to explain this, so PLEASE get it this time.

If you still don't understand, by all means, keep arguing about "all the ANTI-ABORTION, FREEDOM HATING, RACIST crazies like Trent Lott, Tom DeLay and John AshKKKroft" and how they're freedom haters, and I'll keep agreeing with you.

[a2birdcage]

94. All "Dodger" is trying........

to do is make you think that all pro-gun people are anti-abortion, racists, republican, etc, etc, etc and there are no exceptions in his mind. He's stereotypcial when it comes to guns which almost always means he has stereotypical views of just about everything. Doesn't sound too liberal or democratic to me. What do you think?

lib·er·al (lbr-l, lbrl) adj.

Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.


Guess what? Gun control isn't a new idea. It's almost 100 years old and recent studies by the CDC has concluded that there is no conclusion that it even works.

[beevul]

101. You nailed it.

"Doesn't sound too liberal or democratic to me. What do you think?"-a2birdcage

Doesn't sound that way to me iether.

I'm just hopeing that he can see that there are freedom haters of all kinds, and Trent Lott, Tom DeLay and John
AshKKKroft aren't somehow exempt because they are pro-gun, anymore than Scary Brady, VPC, insert gungrabbergroup here are exempt beause they support abortion rights. Whats funniest, is that where truly violent folks are concerned, I'd be standing next to him agreeing that THOSE folks probably shouldn't have firearms, but he'd rather apply the "shouldn't have" tag to everyone, based my interpretation of his intent and beliefs. I'd hope if I'm incorrect about that, he'd make it clear, instead of arguing just to argue. I just get tired of seeing distinctions made beyond freedom hater. I mean, what difference does it make if someone is anti-gun, or anti-abortion, when a freedoom hater is a freedom hater. Why bother differentiating between the 2? Why differentiate between pot and kettle when both are so verry black? It seems to me, as I said earlier, that when a gun grabber calls a racist a racist, that it it is coming from 1 freedom hater to another.

But I digress, I'll probably be agreeing with him again in a few minutes that Trent Lott, Tom DeLay and John
AshKKKroft are freedom haters.

Imagine that.

[MrBenchley]

99. Who the hell are you trying to kid?

What position do all the ANTI-ABORTION, FREEDOM HATING, RACIST crazies like TRENT LOTT, TOM DELAY and JOHN ASHKKKroft take on guns? Oh yeah, they all trumpet that dishonest gun rights bullshit.

"I don't give a happy crap WHAT position someone takes on guns, a freedom hater is a freedom hater. "
Yeah, and a turd is shit no matter how you slice it. And the crowd that hates freedom is the crowd trumpeting this dishonest gun rights horseshit....and they show it every damn day.

[beevul]

104. You *might* finally be starting to get it.

Yeah, and a turd is shit no matter how you slice it. -MrBenchley

I agree Bench.



"And the crowd that hates freedom is the crowd trumpeting this dishonest gun rights horseshit....and they show it every damn day."-MrBenchley

The crowd that hates freedom also trumpets gunbanning, gay bashing, race hatred, gender inequality, censorship, religious zealotry, bigotry, ect ect ect.

Among that crowd, are the Anti-gunners, and THEY TOO SHOW IT EVERY DAY. The anti-free speech folks SHOW IT EVERY DAY. The Anti-freedom of religion/freedom FROM religion folks SHOW IT EVERY DAY. The Anti-racial/gender equality folks SHOW IT EVERY DAY. The Anti-sexual freedom folks SHOW IT EVERY DAY.


Gun grabbers are NO DAMN DIFFERENT than any of the rest of the "crowd that hates freedom".

[MrBenchley]

106. Who the hell are you trying to kid?

Againn, who is that fighting gay rights? Why, it's the same racist freedom hating, anti-reproductive choice bunch, like Lott, DeLay and AshKKKroft that are trumpeting this gun rights horseshit.

[CO Liberal]

108. I For One Do NOT Hate Freedom

And I'm sick and tired of pro-gunners making that accusation. I want the freedom to walk down the street knowing that no Nugent disciple coming the other way may decide to blow me away.

But thanks to the gun lobby, I've lost that freedom......

[MrBenchley]

112. The people who DO hate freedom

are lined up with the gun lobby to oppress us all.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

121. What a steaming pantload...

"The chances of that encounter you talk about happening by a law-abiding citizen with a CWW permit are very unlikely."
But the gun lobby is struggling desperately to make permit holder's names secret from the public, just in case..

[a2birdcage]

127. That's all you could pick apart in my post?

And why do the names of the permit holders need to be made public? Now you don't believe in privacy? Once again how open minded of you. Why is it your's or anyone else's business who has concealed carry permits? Do you spend most of your free time trying to make criminals out of law-abiding citizens and completely ignoring the criminals all together or is it just me? Like I said yesterday, you really need to get a friggin job and contribute to society a little more than this.

[MrBenchley]

136. No, it was just the most absurd part

"Why is it your's or anyone else's business who has concealed carry permits?"
It's called public safety....

[a2birdcage]

138. No, it's called an intrusion of privacy!

When are you going to get it through your head that 99.99% of all law-abiding gun owners are not a threat to the public. Once again it is and never will be any of your business. What would you do anyway if you had the name and address of the millions of concealed carry holders? Would you go and knock on their doors and then try to memorize their faces so that when you see them on the street you could steer clear of them? I can tell you really thought this through. What else is new Bench?

[beevul]

145. Welcome to the party, CO

I was wondering when you might arrive.


Ya know,I am JUST AS TIRED of gun grabbers making the insinuation that anyone who supports gun rights also supports b*sh, ashcroft, delay, or lott.

I am sick and fucking tired of grabbers playing the association game with support of gun rights and racism or Ted Nugent.

I HAVE HAD IT.

The association game works both ways, CO, and if you want it to stop, I might suggest stopping your "nugent association" game, because whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

In fact, to complain about the implications of pro-gunners, while yourself leveling "nugent" association implications, might just be a touch hypocritical. But what do I know....


"I want the freedom to walk down the street knowing that no Nugent disciple coming the other way may decide to blow me away.But thanks to the gun lobby, I've lost that freedom......"-CO Liberal

In other words, you value your freedoms, but hate someone elses. How nice.


I'll tell you what, CO. If you want to talk about how violent felons shouldn't have guns, FINE. I'll be right there agreeing with you. If you want to talk about how the religious right wants to take away the right to reproductive freedom, AGAIN, I'll be right there agreeing with you. If you want to talk about how delay lott and ashcroft are a bunch of freedom haters, I'll gladly agree with you, just like I did with MRbenchly.

If you try demonizing LAW ABIDING GUN OWNERS, well, thems' fightin' words, and all bets are off. The anti contingent can sit here all day playing nugent association games, and leveling racism implications, and the pro contingent can sit here all day playing the freedom hater association game. In the end, its pure stupidity, but as they say, fight fire with fire.

Bad faith arguments will beget bad faith arguments, simple as that.

[CO Liberal]

147. A Split Second......

...can turn a "law abiding gun owner" into a murderer. Don't EVER forget that fact.

[beevul]

148. I agree, CO.

"A Split Second.........can turn a law abiding gun owner" into a murderer"

I also think that could be applied to everything under the sun.

A split second can turn...a penis owner into a rapist, a vagina owner into a prostitute, a car owner into a drunken killer of a child, a mouth owner into a riot inciter, a "want" owner into a thief, a press owner into a plaigerist(sp?), a fishingrod owner into a poacher, a leg owner into a tresspasser, a lighter owner into an arsonist, computer owner into a hacker, a truck owner into a smuggler, a management position "owner" into an embezzeler, an chicken owner into a cockfighter, an animal owner into an animal neglector, a garden owner into a drug dealer(though I don't agree with this), a well owner into a criminal water waster, a badge owner into an abuser of power, a restrante owner into a tax evader, A brain owner into................. anything under the sun, good or bad. I believe most folks would agree, CO, that the most potentially dangerous weapon on the face of the earth is the human brain. Certainly , the unpredictability of people that you so often refer to when talking about law abiding gun owners in the "split second" light, also applies to brain owners too, right?

You ready to lock up everyone under the sun who possesses a brain?
You ready to lobotomize them for potential danger of brain possession? Thats the "tool" that EVERY SINGLE murderer and rapist and every type of criminal under the sun use for committing thier crimes. It may not be the only tool, but make no mistake, IT IS one of them. In every case where a gun is used, good or bad, so is a brain. So what?

A split second can turn anyone into a murderer. Being the size I am, I am reasonably sure I could kill someone with a taco-bell softshell taco, or a white castle cheeseburger(yeah, I know it'd be doing half the work), or a hershey bar -"A." *IF* my life or my familys depended on it, or "B." *IF* I lost my temper, my sense of right and wrong,and my judgement-ALL in the same instant. In the time it would take me sitting here right now to go to my room, and get my gun, I could grab at least 50 different objects that could SERIOUSLY injure or kill, and seriously injure or kill with them, *IF* I lost control of myself. That is what really bothers you I think, that people sometimes lose control. Believe It or not,it bothers me too. But not to the point that I feel an overwhelming need to take away everything potentially dangerous from every individual in society.

If "A." happens, theres not a doubt in my mind that I will do whatever I have to to up to and including deadly force. I would NOT relish doing so, but then, if I ever have to defend myself or my family and HAVE to use deadly force, I don't think anything I enjoy would be anywhere in my mind at that time. I would be singleminded in my will to survive and protect.

If "B." happens, I will have proven to society that I CAN NOT be in control of my temper, my sense of right and wrong,and my judgement, and should be penalized for it.That applies to EVERYONE in a free society.

Now, since were really not talking about "A." ,lets talk about "B." some more. It is the responsibility of the individual to keep his/her temper in check, keep thier sense of right and wrong consious, and to use good judgement to do right, and not do wrong. It is not for YOU to decide for me, anymore than it is for ME to decide for you, what is in either of our possession should those important 3 values be lost for whatever reason.

I do NOT believe it is for the GOVT to decide either. If it becomes up to the masses, through the GOVT, nothing is safe. NOTHING. Not with a constantly changing GOVT. The founding fathers knew this. Tyrany of the majority, and so forth.

It is the responsibility of the individual to keep his/her temper in check, keep thier sense of right and wrong consious, and to use good judgement to do right, and not do wrong. If someone CAN NOT do that, they become a threat to society, and are removed from society based on that threat and based on what is a reasonable penalty, for thier degree of inability to keep thier temper in check, keep thier sense of right and wrong consious, and to use good judgement to do right, and not do wrong.



I'm hardpressed to find a single object in my home that COULD NOT be used to kill, if "A." or "b." happened. Can you in your home?

If "A." happens, a firearm is the BEST defense. There are other defenses, but a firearm is THE BEST. Period. Not just used by me, but even more so for my girlfriend or our daughters.

If "B." happens, a firearm is irrelivant, all reason is lost. As I said earlier, in the time it would take me sitting here right now to go to my room, and get my gun, I could grab at least 50 different things that could SERIOUSLY injure or kill, and seriously injure or kill with them, *IF* I lost it. I believe the same could be said for pretty much anyone.

Gah, I'm tired of typing right now. The bottom line, CO, is that I believe you fear (not irrationally iether) people losing control. I can't and don't blame you one bit. I also worry about it.

People are unpredictable, but that works both ways. One person unpredictably loses control and beats or murders or robs or rapes someone, and another surprises his/her "significant other" with a night out on the town or a romantic night at home. You can't say what any one person can or will do, except for yourself. All you can do is be prepared for possibilitys. Or decide for yourself that your unwilling to do what it takes to be prepared. I do not believe it is for me or anyone else to say, what an individual can or can not do to be prepared on a personal or family protection basis.

You can no more remove all instruments potentially used in violence, than you can remove all individuals potential for violence. Its just that simple, and it will never happen.

I am sorry for the post length, not trying to write a paper here, or compete with other posters especially when there are those that are far more eloquent than I(Hi Iverglass !:hi:). I wouldn't bother typing all this out if I didn't believe you were someone who could be reasoned with. Id just call you a freedom hater. I don't really believe you are one. I believe you are just verry uncomfortable with the potential of man at his worst.

Like I said in an earlier post. Welcome to the party CO. So am I. Not to the point of rendering the law abiding defenseless though.

[a2birdcage]

160. Do you live your whole life by "what if"?

If you're so afraid then you have the freedom not to walk the street. Like I said earlier you and you alone are responsible for your freedom.

[CO Liberal]

167. And The Gun Lobby & The Gun Lobby Alone......

...is responsible for depriving me of some of that freedom.

[a2birdcage]

168. Actually you got that backwards CO

They're fighting to protect that freedom by allowing you to have the tools required to protect it from people who don't abide by the gun laws/bans. Like I said earlier when has freedom ever been free. You just expect the government to protect you day in and day out don't you? You don't want to have any responsibility for yourself or your loved ones (that makes me fucking puke). If you're the type of person who isn't brave enough to fight for their freedom then maybe you should stay at home. You don't deserve freedom if you expect someone else to give it to you. In the mean time I will be out on the street and armed just in case a freedom hater wants my wallet or my life. I don't live my life scared of everything always asking my self what if like you do.

[a2birdcage]

109. Dodger will never get it!

No matter what you say he still thinks that because he is pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-equality and so-forth and so-forth that he is some how not a freedom hater. But he fails to understand that no matter what your stance is on other freedoms if you try to take away just one then you are by definition a freedom hater. Take for example myself and how I feel about abortion. If I were a female I would never consider an abortion. Does this make me a freedom ha? No. Just because I wouldn't do it doesn't mean I'm against the next individual having their say as to what choices they want to make for themselves. It's the same thing for Bench. If he merely stated that he doesn't like guns and personally would never own one then would that make him a freedom hater? No, because he made an individual choice but is still open minded enough to allow the next person to own one if they want.

[MrBenchley]

114. Koresh, I hope I never get whatever it is

that rattles around inside the skulls of the RKBA crowd....it's more like pathology than rational thought.

"he still thinks that because he is pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-equality and so-forth and so-forth that he is some how not a freedom hater."
Yeah, imagine that. Meanwhile the people who DO hate freedom are spouting the same horseshit the RKBA crowd is here.

"if he merely stated that he doesn't like guns and personally would never own one then would that make him a freedom hater? No, because he made an individual choice but is still open minded enough to allow the next person to own one if they want."
But instead mean old Bench points out what a steaming pantload all of the gun rights argument are (as this week's gun rights case showed)...and what scummy racist pieces of shit are spouting that rubbish on the public stage.

Not to mention pointing out that this entire thread is based on a press release (not a news item) that is itself a melange of hysteria and horseshit from a bunch of psychos that thinks torturing and killing animals is fun.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

116. Too too funny....

"How liberal of you."
Yeah, imagine that....I don't think torturing and killing animals is fun. Now go cry about it to somebody who gives a shit.

[a2birdcage]

118. Way to spin my comment

You said that all hunters are pyschos. Did you or did you not. Once again that is very open minded of you. Now why don't you go steal my right to free speech and religion while your at it.

[MrBenchley]

120. Hahahahahahaha....

No spin needed....I quoted you exactly..

[a2birdcage]

128. This is what you said

"Not to mention pointing out that this entire thread is based on a press release (not a news item) that is itself a melange of hysteria and horseshit from a bunch of psychos that thinks torturing and killing animals is fun.

So you think all hunters are psychos? Isn't that a stereotypical and very unliberal thing to say? Quick, you better hit the alert button and inform the mods again that I somehow insulted you because my opinion is you're not a true liberal thinker. Go tell the teacher I said a bad word and accused you of not being very mature. Waaah! Waaah! Waaah! YASF!

[MrBenchley]

129. Birdcage, I know damn well what I said

and it's 100% accurate.

Now go cry about it to someone who gives a steaming crap.

[a2birdcage]

131. Okay then at least you admit it.

You think all hunters are psychos. That's all I wanted to hear. Thanks for your open-minded liberal point of view. One more thing, being as I don't hunt and currently feel that it's still okay for other people to hunt for their own food should I maybe reconsider my stance. Since I don't hunt should I classify all that do as psychos who love to torture and kill animals? Nah, then I would be a hypocrite claiming to be liberal but having a closed mind at the same time. What was I thinking? Now go cry to the mods.

[MrBenchley]

135. Birdcage, I said it and I stand by it

""
Or maybe you'd be a liberal who thinks animals have a right not to be tortured for fun by twisted pretentious pinheads calling themselves "sportsmen".

[a2birdcage]

86. Good post

[juancarlos]

96. People call Jersey a shithole because

it restricts people's rights more than other, sane, states.

[a2birdcage]

117. Yeah, it's the perfect place........

for freedom hating morons to live.

[papau]

6. Felon checking ? For fishing? A bit silly IMHO

But then I am a pro control control gun owner - but only when it makes some kind of sense.

[Muddleoftheroad]

7. In addition to this lawsuit

This group must do marketing for the GOP. This is the kind of suit that will ensure major vote turnout for them in all rural areas.

[MrBenchley]

10. Yeah?

Which group exactly is it that these blowhards are wailing about?

[Township75]

21. Bench, buddy...pal

How large are the unions in NJ?

If they are a significant voting block over there, then this will likely not help the Dems in your state. Union members often like to hunt, and even though the Dems may not be pushing this lawsuit, they will likely unfairly be associated with the lawsuit from the Repubs...and that can cost us in the elections.

Just think back to 2k...Gore should NOT have had to waste time in MI and PA with their huge number of union members, but he did, largely on the gun issue. Sure he won both, but he couldn't spend as much time there as in WV, TN, Ark, LA, NH, or FL where these types of issues matter to a big chunk of voters who should otherwise be voting Democratic.

You may not like it B, but it could be a problem for us.

[MrBenchley]

22. Township

Most of the union members I know are more concerned with this unelected asswipe costing America jobs than whether or not some hunting group is lying its ass off.

So I notice none of the "concerned gun owning Democrats" here are asking any critical questions about this bit of rubbish....wonder why?

[Muddleoftheroad]

51. Some of us own guns and still want to win elections

A group doing something stupid like this will only hurt us because, whether I like it or not, too many Dems are in the gun control minset. An ani-hunting attack will naturally be linked to them and that will cost us votes.

[MrBenchley]

58. Too frigging funny...

"A group doing something stupid like this"
What group is that?

[Muddleoftheroad]

66. The group of anti-hunters filing the suit

Or didn't you read the initial post?

[MrBenchley]

68. And they are?

[Muddleoftheroad]

82. Obscurity

You are probably trying to make a point. Perhaps you might want to get to it.

[MrBenchley]

83. Long ago made my point...

<sarcasm>You have to feel sorry for the poor "sportsmen", armed only with guns, traps, hysteria and bullshit, fearing that any moment powerful foes like Little Einstein and the SPCA will prevent felons from delighting in the simple joys of torturing and killing animals....</sarcasm>

[Muddleoftheroad]

87. Personally, I don't hunt

But a couple points:

* I know lots of hunters, it is rural Virginia. They treat the wild better than any suburbanite I've ever known. They know they can't overhunt or overfish and that, since man has killed off many natural predators, hunting is necessary. Some of them hunt for fun. Others for food. None of them waste what they hunt however. It either gets eaten by them or goes to shelters and churches.
* I used to live near D.C. A constant problem was deer causing auto accidents. Why, because we have killed the bear, the wolf, the cougar, the mountain lion. So now, deer roam free unchecked. That means in bad weather, they starve to death.

A question, do you hate ALL users of guns or just most of them?

[Township75]

63. I too...

know union members who are more concerned about removing Bush than someone removing their right to hunt. But I also know in states like PA and WV, and likely MI, many union voters think that they may be able to save their guns depending on who they vote for, but not their jobs.

For example, Clinton didn't do anything to help the heavily unionized steel industry in PA, WV, and OH...but Bush did, though it appears he is about to repeal it. I can only speak for those I know in PA and WV, but this really helped Bush among Union voters who vote Democratic. Now, there are union members who look at this as Dems won't help me protect my job and they will take away my guns/right to hunt...at least with Bush, I don't have to worry about my gun/right to hunt. Just ask MaineMary next time she journeys down here.

I am not saying Dems support removing the right to hunt, but if you are concerned about removing Bush from office like myself, you better be concerned about this being unjustifiably being attached to the Dem party, despite your opposition to hunting. We will NOT win PA, MI, WI, MN, NH, and pretty much any southern state if the Dem party is labelled as the anti hunting party.

[MrBenchley]

67. Too frigging funny...

Chimpy's tariff hurt the steel industry more than it helped...and as you correctly note, he's folding them up, yet another failure from this incompetent drunk.

"there are union members who look at this as Dems won't help me protect my job and they will take away my guns/right to hunt"
The Teachers Union? The International Ladies Garment Workers Union? Again, I'd bet most of those who are more concerned with hunting and their gun fetish than their jobs or Iraq aren't union workers and would never vote Democratic in a million years. Less than 6% of the US population hunts...the odds that even half of that are union members, given that most of the hunting goes on in right to work states, is nil.

"I am not saying Dems support removing the right to hunt, but if you are concerned about removing Bush from office like myself, you better be concerned about this being unjustifiably being attached to the Dem party, despite your opposition to hunting."
About WHAT? WE yet to see this is anything but this one website's dishonesty and hysteria.

[mikehiggins]

11. No information as to the suit? Is this bogus or a hoax?

Who is filing this suit? The link does not say but simply points to the newsrelease from the Sportsmen's Alliance. THis could well be a hoax.

[MrBenchley]

12. You caught that too?

Funny how the "anti-hunting group" cannot be named......

[Superfly]

15. Funny how the plaintiffs of

civil suits have the right to keep their names private.

[MrBenchley]

17. Gee, now why would an "anti-hunting group"

want that?

Especially considering they're suing because the Fish & Game Department is handing out hunting licenses to felons?

[Superfly]

18. Gee, why don't you ask them?

Go to the source.

[MrBenchley]

20. So who are they?

[DoNotRefill]

79. actually....

they're suing because the Fish and Game Department is handing out fishing licenses to convicted felons. Hmmm....fishing licenses. It's pretty damned rare to hunt fish with a shotgun, isn't it?

[Superfly]

13. Standby....

I'll find one.

[Superfly]

14. Another source

Link

[MrBenchley]

16. This has nothing to do with the other story

The bear hunt suit is one of several trying to halt this disgrace...

"TRENTON, N.J. -- An animal rights group may soon take legal action in an attempt to halt New Jersey's first bear hunt in three decades.
Fund for Animals member Michael Markarian tells WRNJ Radio that the organization could file a lawsuit as early as Monday. "

http://www.wnbc.com/politics/2669570/detail.html

[Superfly]

19. Fair enough...my mistake

in my haste, I made a mistake.

mea culpa.

[MrBenchley]

43. So I suppose

Anyone dumb enough to pay $250 for a polo shirt or $500 for a knife is going to fall for this story...

http://www.wlfa.org/interactive/features/Read1.cfm?ID=36

By the way, check this out....

"The Fund for Animals launched its anti-fur ad in New York City last week.  The group reports that the 30-second spot will air hundreds of times during primetime on networks including MTV, VH1, E!, Oxygen, Lifetime and TNT (see contact information below).  The ad features trapping footage and urges viewers not to purchase fur garments.
“Sportsmen who see this offensive television ad should contact the network that runs it and tell the management that you and your family do not appreciate such sensational material being aired,” said U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance President Bud Pidgeon.  “Trapping is our oldest outdoor tradition and is an important wildlife management tool.”
The anti-fur campaign also includes print ads in Gotham, The New Yorker, The New York Times Magazine, theatre playbills, student newspapers and posters on college campuses."

http://WWW.USSPORTSMEN.ORG/interactive/features/Read.cfm?ID=1188

<sarcasm>Love the image of muskrat trappers watching Lifetime Network, ready to write and complain....You know MTV depends on that ultra-rural sustenance market for its ratings....</sarcasm>

[MrBenchley]

49. More stupidity from the "sportsmen"

"The Baby Einstein Company, a business created to expose children to poetry, art and music, makes contributions to the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA). The ASPCA is a national anti-hunting organization that has backed trapping bans in California, Arizona and Massachusetts and hound hunting bans in Oregon and Washington.
Julie Clark, CEO and founder of The Baby Einstein Company, told WLFA that Baby Einstein does make contributions to the ASPCA and that she “absolutely supports the organization.”
A second business, Kiddinaround.com, also supports the anti’s. This on-line store that sells toys, books and accessories for babies and young children is running a fundraiser for the Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (MSPCA)."

http://www.ussportsmen.org/interactive/features/Read.cfm?ID=635

Imagine that...

[Emoto]

74. what a crock

If anyone has ever driven the highways of NJ and seen all of the deer carcasses by the side of the road, the need for proper game population management seems obvious.

[Fescue4u]

75. What kind of hell hole is NJ anyway

What kind of Nazis are running that place?

I've read through the draconian regulations that place puts on everything from slingshots to shotguns, and now they are even attacking sportsmen

Thank god I don't live there.

[a2birdcage]

142. It's a real dump! Trust me.

Thank God it's not the size of Texas. It's just a little place with a lot of people with little brains.

[DoNotRefill]

77. Hmmm....

Can somebody cite the relevant law that would ban a convicted felon from buying a fishing license and fishing? Or are fishing poles and fish hooks now considered weapons?

I also wonder how the group will be able to get standing for their lawsuit....

[MrBenchley]

81. Hell, refill....

I yet to see this is anything but the usual load of dishonesty and hysteria.....

[DoNotRefill]

140. So, if in fact the suit seeks to bar...

convicted felons from obtaining a fishing license, you'd oppose the suit?

[Liberal Classic]

88. Because the Fish and Game Dept issued licenses to felons

No hunting and fishing seasons until a background check system is put into place for sporting licenses?

Perhaps the fault is not with the Fish and Wildlife Dept, perhaps the problem is the Department of Public Safety or which ever agency issues weapon licenses.

[MrBenchley]

89. Assuming this is not just more horseshit

from a website laden with it.

[Liberal Classic]

90. As you're from NJ you might be more familiar with this than I

If the suit is about ex-cons and firearms why the ban on the issuing of fishing licenses?

On edit:

This does sound fishy.

(ducks)

[MrBenchley]

91. Too TOO funny.....

Even considering we've yet to see if it is a real lawsuit...it is trruly amazing how many members of the RKBA crowd are unwilling or unable to read the word "hunting" in the press release.

However, the NJ Department of Fish & Game WILL routinely issue a rifle permit for those getting through a hunter education course...but conducts no background check. And most of the places issuing hunting licenses are sporting goods store...and state policy is that if the applicant doesn't have a gun for the field session, one is lent to him...

[DoNotRefill]

93. Are you saying...

that in New Jersey you can buy a rifle without going through a background check conducted by "competent" police agencies? NBy this I specifically exclude F&W.

What good is a "rifle permit" (I notice you left off the word "hunting") if you can't own a rifle?

If you live in a state where it's a felony to own any gun, and get a license to have a "gun show", does that license override the prohibition on possession of a firearm? Nope. You'd end up with a hall full of people, talking about guns, with no guns present. You can have 500 rifle hunting permits. that doesn't mean you can have a rifle.

"and state policy is that if the applicant doesn't have a gun for the field session, one is lent to him..."

Sporting goods stores LEND guns? Since when? Can you link to this "state policy"? This'll be interesting...

[MrBenchley]

97. It appears you can

courtesy of the Fish & Wildlife shitheels....

If so, hope the suit is for real.

[Liberal Classic]

103. Out of curiosity, I was reading the NJ Fish and Wildlife webpage

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/hunting.htm

A "rifle hunting license" is a permit to hunt with a rifle. One must still have a license from the NJ state police to buy a rifle.

[DoNotRefill]

143. Wrong....

In order to purchase a firearm, ANY firearm (including rifles, black powder guns, and pellet guns), in N.J., you must have a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card issued by the New Jersey State Police. Having a hunting license WILL NOT "cut it". Presumably, the NJSP conduct background checks before issuing such ID cards.

In other words: No background check, no gun.

[LARED]

98. No way

However, the NJ Department of Fish & Game WILL routinely issue a rifle permit for those getting through a hunter education course...but conducts no background check

Is absolute horsepucky. Hunter education has nothing to do with issuing rifle permits. There is no such thing as a rifle permit in NJ. The state of New Jersey issues NJ Firearms Purchaser ID cards. These are good for purchasing shotguns, and rifles. (BTW a BB gun is considered a rifle in NJ) Getting a handgun requires the ID card and a hundgun permit that is good for 90 days and requires an additional background check for each permit.

And most of the places issuing hunting licenses are sporting goods store..


So? If they sell guns they do a check. You also need a state ID card to even handle the weapon, let alone buy it.

and state policy is that if the applicant doesn't have a gun for the field session, one is lent to him...

That true in a very narrow way. When you take the hunter safety course the tester will have a few shotgun available for those that do not have one so they can complete the field portion of the hunter safety test. The shotgun is always under the supervision of the state tester. The applicant takes a few shots at a clay target after some basic instruction is given. They then give the shotgun back to the tester. It takes all of 2 minutes.

Also rifle hunting in NJ is limited to varmit hunting with a 22. All game animals are hunter via shotgun or bow.

[MrBenchley]

100. Too TOO funny....

"When you take the hunter safety course the tester will have a few shotgun available for those that do not have one so they can complete the field portion of the hunter safety test. The shotgun is always under the supervision of the state tester. The applicant takes a few shot at a clay target after some basic instruction is given. They then give the shotgun back to the tester."
And of course nothing could ever go wrong handing a loaded shotgun to a felon....

[LARED]

122. You have the perfect criminal mind

And of course nothing could ever go wrong handing a loaded shotgun to a felon....

Yes, it is possible they may hand a shotgun to a felon. Something could go wrong getting out of bed in the morning as well.

But you're correct, a hunter safety class could be the perfect vehicle for a shotgun-less felon to pull off the perfect crime in a fantasy universe.

The felon has applied for a hunting license, giving their name and address to the state so they could be mailed the time and place the classes take place.

The felon takes the classroom instruction, has passed the written test, and is now ready to pull off the perfect crime during the field test. The Saturday of the field test the felon is ready, waiting nervously for a turn to be handed a shotgun with a single shell in it while surrounded by 20 to 30 honest citizens with shotguns.

As the felon is getting some instructions, the felon is trying desperately not to clue in the instructor that he is about to pull off a diabolical plan. It seems to take forever to get through it. Finally he has the prize in his hand. An old single shot 20 or 12 gauge that can easily be used for countless crimes starting with the one that about to happen. The felon looks furtively around, the felon then startles everyone in sight by ..........

Back to a reality based universe.

Any more strawmen MrBenchly?

[MrBenchley]

124. Hahahahahahaha!

"Back to a reality based universe."
Sure thing......Tell us, who is the group suing?

[LARED]

126. Tell us, who is the group suing?

How would I know? The article doesn't say.

But what does that have to do with the gibberish you posted about NJ hunting?

[MrBenchley]

130. I rest my case....

It's more RKBA hysteria and horseshit.....

[LARED]

144. You rest your case?

What case is that?

It's more RKBA hysteria and horseshit.....

That one?

Yeah, it's possible. Sure you might be right.

But as the old saying goes - it take one to know one, and you should know, as the RKBA "hysteria" is only matched by yours.

Once again let me ask. What was the point of all that nonsense you posted about hunting in NJ?

[MrBenchley]

149. Yeah, I rest my case....

[happyslug]

95. In Pennsyslvania Ex-Felons can hunt

Just can not use a "Fire arm" as that term is defined Under Federal Law (i.e. any firearm that uses brass shells as ammunition that was made after 1898).

If the felon uses a weapon made prior to 1898, or a muzzle loader, or a Bow he is NOT violating the Federal Firearms Act. He can use such weapons even in the "gun" season (as opposes to the Archery and Muzzle loader seasons where one must use a bow (for Archery Season) or a Muzzle loader (for Muzzle loader season).

In Addition a felon can be a member of a hunting party as long as he does not touch a gun (and Pennsylvania law REQUIRES him to have a Hunting License even if he does not have a weapon if he is a member of a hunting party).

Now a hunting license can be revoked for other reasons (for example non-payment of Child Support) but no Statute or Regulation prohibits a ex-Felon from Hunting in Pennsylvania:

The restriction as to Felon Not using a Firearm is one of the leading reasons for requests for pardons from the Governor. When a hunter turn 60 his ability to pull a bow starts to decline, so at that point many want to return to using a gun for hunting and asks the Governor for a pardon. A pardon restores someone’s right to use a Gun under Federal Law.

I suspect New Jersey and other states have similar laws i.e. Felons can hunt, just can NOT violate any law saying a Felon can not possess a Firearm.

This is the Pennsylvania Statues regarding Game:
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/huntrap/title34/index.asp

Here is the Statutory site for Hunting licences:
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/huntrap/title34/Chapter27a.asp#2701

Here is the Pennsylvania Code (the Regulations of the Game Commission):
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/partIIItoc.html

The Game Commission Regulations regarding Hunting License Suspension (More to do with period of suspension related to Hunting Violations than general Felonies:
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter143/subchapGtoc.htm1

This is the Reg that sets forth the time period of a revocation (Three years for first offense):
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/huntrap/title34/Chapter27c.asp#2741

[DoNotRefill]

139. You might check...

if PA has codified a "no guns for felons" statute. If they have, it's quite possible that STATE law prohibits a person with a former felony conviction of owning a firearm that doesn't qualify as a firearm under Federal law.

Here at least, a firearm is defined by state law as any device which was designed to propel an object by means of an explosion. Therefore, people with felony convictions can own CO2 "pellet" guns, but not "conventional" firearms, even if made prior to 1898, or if it's a muzzle-loader, et cetera. There was a case not too long ago where a person was convicted of owning a non-functional through decades of neglect "heirloom" which once was a functional muzzle-loader, and which had been in his family since the 1700's.

[MrBenchley]

102. So at the end of day 2

We still have not seen any indication that this is a real lawsuit...

[DoctorWho]

105. "Suit Filed to End All Hunting...in NJ"

NJ is a very strange place...

[MrBenchley]

107. Good fucking riddance....

Hunting is a dying sport that should have died years ago...

[the_acid_one]

110. In our modern society

The only thing our culture of couch potatoes hunts is ther local Mcdonalds.

What's so bad about eating something that's lived most of it's life happy and free, as compared to breeding animals in inhumane conditions for the sole purpose of eating?


Less people would eat meat if it wasnt handed to them in little paper boxes with an order of fries.



I'd prefer a culture that isnt so lazy as ours, myself, and you wanna talk about torturing and murdering animals? Hunters aint got nothing on the meat industry.

[MrBenchley]

119. Gee, not to mention

all the fun of wounding animals...

"Hunters aint got nothing on the meat industry."
The only difference is that slaughterhouse workers are more honest and less of a public menace.

[the_acid_one]

125. Yeh, ooookay.

Right...Hunters...public menace. Go ahead, tell me another one. I love stories.

So someone who kills critters for a living on a daily basis to feed a gluttonous america is morally superiour to someone who kills maybe 3-5 animals a year?


I wish I lived in Made-Upistan too.

[a2birdcage]

133. Made-Upistand does really exist...........

it's most commonly known as New Jersey.

[MrBenchley]

134. Suit yourself....

"Hunters...public menace. Go ahead, tell me another one. I love stories.

Look for yourself...the stories are not hard to find.

"Injury Description- Four bird shot pellets in face.
Cause/Circumstance- Grouse flushed between shooter and victim, shooter shot unaware of where victim was standing approximately 21-50 yards away.

Injury Description- Multiple hits to the upper torso and head from the discharge of shotgun.
Cause/Circumstance- Shooter was seated against a tree along a field edge. Victim was walking along field edge still hunting turkeys. Shooter thought victim was "struting" and also thought he saw some red. Shooter shot victim at a distance of 142 feet. No white, blue or red was displayed on victim."

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/es/enforcement/safety/huntstats.htm

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/huntered/ca2001.html

"LA VERNE, California (CNN) -- Wind-whipped wildfires have tormented Southern California from San Diego to suburban Los Angeles, causing 14 deaths, and destroying more than 550 homes and threatening thousands more.
The so-called Cedar fire started Saturday when a hunter lost in the mountains near Julian lit a signal fire, the AP reported authorities as saying."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/10/26/california.wildfire/

"A 27-year-old Port Huron man was accidentally shot in the face by his father, a Fort Gratiot resident, while hunting in Kenockee Township, according to the St. Clair County Sheriff's Department. The incident occurred around 9 a.m. Saturday near Bricker Road, between Rynn and Bryce roads.
A teenager hunting with another teenage relative was reportedly shot while hunting in Fowlerville Saturday. The relative missed his target and accidentally shot the teenager in his side, Local 4 reported. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031117/lo_wdiv/1881076



"I wish I lived in Made-Upistan too."
Hey, just invent a lawsuit, put out a press release about it, and then go into near-pathological hysterics about your invention here under a misleading headline....

It's worked for the RKBA crowd so far...

[the_acid_one]

146. Now tell me...

...about the 99.9% of hunts that dont go wrong.

The things you mention, well..they're the vast minority. When it starts happening 30% of the time or better, then maybe it will be a "public menace".

Can we say "gross Exageration"? I knew you could.

[MrBenchley]

150. Hahahahahaha.....

How many billions of dollars worth of damage was caused by the fire that numbnutz started?

[the_acid_one]

159. Great, now you tell me...

...... about the multiple fires set by...guess who? FireFighters every year.


Yes, Firefighters. Seems some of them just like fire so much they go into the firefighting business to play with fire, and if there is no fire, heck, some of them just make their own.

You cant point out one incident with one individual (with whom the fact that he was hunting has nothing to do with the fire) and make sweeping across the board statements about all hunters being a public menace.

But if thats what you want to do then at least do it about a group that has had several cases of arsonists posing as the good guys, rather then just one incident.

10 or 15 examples of hunters having accidents out of at least a 500,000 hunts or more a year hardly constitutes a "public menace". Especially when one considers that these accidents typically involve other hunters. (Not that that would matter to you, who will probably write it off as "psycho's slaughtering eachother")

Besides, If it's just a regular joe out in the woods that gets shot, what the hell is that idiot doing out in the woods in hunting season? Ever since me and my younger siblings were old enough to go outside by ourselves our mom and dad consistently drilled into us to NEVER EVER go in the woods during hunting season. I've known that since I was 5, what's Joe Public's excuse?

[MrBenchley]

162. Too too funny....

"Ever since me and my younger siblings were old enough to go outside by ourselves our mom and dad consistently drilled into us to NEVER EVER go in the woods during hunting season."
Nuff said.

[the_acid_one]

166. We were also told...

Dont play in the road.

These are common sense things. Not a reflection on hunters or drivers.

Nuff Said indeed.

[a2birdcage]

132. NJ is a fucking shithole!

A very very small piece of land with a super high concentration of fucking idiots.

[MrBenchley]

137. That's the RKBA crowd

you're thinking of.

New Jersey is the state where this lawsuit that seems to be utterly fictional was supposed to have been filed. Democratic governor, new Democratic majorities in the legislature, good public schools and a liberal newspaper. No wonder the RKBA crowd hates it.

[a2birdcage]

141. Thank God it's not the size of Texas..........

we'd all be fucked.

[MrBenchley]

151. Gee, what was the name of this place again?

Tell us, Birdcage...do you think Texas amounts to good government?

--15 percent of Texans live in poverty, the 10th highest percentage in the nation;
--Texas ranks dead last in health insurance coverage, with 26.5 percent of its population uninsured and 49th in children having health insurance;
--Texas stands at the very bottom in spending for teachers, including benefits, and 47th in SAT scores;
--Texas tops the nation in air pollution and ranks (in spending) 49th for the environment and 48th for parks and recreation;
--Despite a major increase in tax revenues, Texas (in per-capita state spending) ranks 47th in public health and 40th in elementary and secondary education; and
--Texas' working poor earn a state minimum wage of $3.35 an hour, or $6,700 per year for full-time work.

But of course, I forgot...Texas doesn't do anything to keep neurotics, criminals and pinheads from having guns.

[CO Liberal]

153. Another Thing About Texas

But of course, I forgot...Texas doesn't do anything to keep neurotics, criminals and pinheads from having guns.

And they don't do anything to keep neurotics, criminals and pinheads (such as GW Bush, Tom DeLay, Phil Gramm, etc) from holding elective office.

[demsrule4life]

154. And another thing

They do a good job getting rid of criminals with the needle. :)

[MrBenchley]

156. While right wing yahoos cheer and party....

A national disgrace in every way....

And they don't even stop to see if the ones they kill ARE criminals sometimes.

[MrBenchley]

155. It seems to be a prerequisite for the GOP there...

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

123. And THAT is assuming

that there actually IS such a lawsuit...which we've yet to see proved. Funny that wouldn't be news to some newspaper in New Jersey, isn't it?

[LARED]

157. THE SUIT IS TRUE

I emailed the New Jersey Division of Fish and Wildlife asking about this suit and the response was as follows;

There is such a suit. The case is in the hands of Craig Sashahira, a state Deputy Attorney General. PT

Paul Tarlowe, Wildlife Education Specialist

[Superfly]

158. Can you post this in a new thread

so Benchley doesn't miss it?

Brian

[MrBenchley]

161. Gee, fly...

I got no problem noticing this claim...

I notice we still don't know what group is suing...or what the exact grounds are...

But it sure doesn't seem that it is going to "end hunting in NJ" except maybe for some felons....

[Superfly]

163. Does it matter who the group is? No

they are still filing suit to suspend hunting rights to ALL hunters until a system of background checks is emplaced. That, given the quagmire of a beauracracy in NJ, is a de facto end to hunting.

[MrBenchley]

164. Who are you trying to kid, fly?

Suppose it's the Republicans? Pert near the entire RKBA crowd was screaming and bashing Democrats for two days over it.

"they are still filing suit to suspend hunting rights to ALL hunters until a system of background checks is emplaced."
Sounds sensible to me.....

"That, given the quagmire of a beauracracy in NJ, is a de facto end to hunting."
Sez you...

[Superfly]

165. Man, are you sure you're in the right place?

Just suspend the legal activities of everybody else, because of a few.

But, then I know that you are an anti-gun and everything/everybody associated with guns absolutist, so there really is no arguing with you.

Back on ignore you go.

[MrBenchley]

169. Yeah, I am...

It's the RKBA crowd that seems to bash Democrats every chance they get....

"Just suspend the legal activities of everybody else, because of a few."
There's no reason to give felons hunting licenses...and a background check system should be in place.

[RebelOne]

170. Are you sure you are not referring to this?

UPDATE: COURT CHALLENGE TO NEW JERSEY’S BEAR HUNT:

On Monday (12/1), a coalition of wildlife protection organizations, hikers, and Native Americans filed suit in U.S. District Court in Washington, DC to stop the Park Service from allowing bears to be hunted on the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area. The New Jersey bear hunt, slated to take place December 8 - 13 on lands throughout the state, would be the first legal bear hunt in the state in 33 years. The lawsuit, which claims that allowing the bear hunt on protected park lands would violate federal environmental laws, comes on the heels of a similar court case in which a federal court ruled that a pheasant hunting program at Cape Cod National Seashore was unlawful. In the meantime, anonymous donors have offered New Jersey's Department of Environmental Protection $60,000 for non-lethal bear management programs. The donation is contingent on the state calling off the hunt. Those who wish to add to this effort should contact Barbara Dyer at [phone].

[Wickerman]

171. Locking, continue here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=26013