Burglar's Loved Ones Want Charges Against Shooter

[GreenStormCloud]

http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/79858682.html

The is the burglar who died while hiding from the police. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=276474&mesg_id=276474

An Omaha woman is mourning the death of her boyfriend, a suspected burglar shot and killed by a business owner over the weekend. She believes that business owner should be charged with a crime.

Police say Jesus Franco broke into the business near 24th and I streets around 4:30 a.m. Saturday, struggled with the owner and then ran from the scene after being shot. Police found Franco dead a few blocks away, alone in his car.

Lynn Pecha is overcome with grief. Franco's girlfriend does not believe the story. “It's not right, he didn't have no weapons on him, the cops never found weapons and the guy said he had a knife. There was no knife.”

SNIP

Lynn and her mother say Franco was a good person, not a criminal, not a thief and he was coming home that morning. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. “We need the truth, that’s all we want, the truth,” says Pecha.

Not a criminal? Not a thief? Wrong place at wrong time? Well, I would say that inside the store at 4:30AM is definately the wrong place for him to be and is a real bad time too.

[DonP]

1. Did you edit out the "He was turning his life around ..." part? Ntxt

[dmallind]

2. How was he doing that exactly? Did he leave a note saying "one last break in"? NT

[DonP]

15. It's the obligatory line from family members on TV ...

... when a gang member gets shot by a rival gang, the police or wounded while robbing a convenience store.

They all seem to claim that the dead/arrested/wounded family member was changing his life and the media should ignore the yard long arrest record.

It's emblematic of the fact that many families are totally out of touch of what their children or grandchildren are up to.

[Tejas]

37. "My babydaddy didn't do nothing" - nt

[slackmaster]

4. Apparently he wasn't doing a very good job of that

A career in crime isn't something you can taper off of.

[slackmaster]

3. Sad but pretty typical

All kinds of denial and misplaced anger at play.

..."The scenario was he broke into the business, doesn’t give a person the right to shoot somebody, especially if you don't see a weapon,” said Deana Arellano.

“Then no weapon was found, doesn’t give you the right to shoot somebody. There are laws against that and I think there needs to be a full investigation.”...

She is misinformed. Legally it doesn't matter whether or not Jesus Franco actually had a weapon.

[dmallind]

5. And I can't resist pointing out "he didn't have no weapons on him".

So what's the problem then? (not of course that he had to have a weapon on him. Somebody breaking ionto your locked place of business and residence in the wee gours is a threat to your safety regardless of weapons or lack thereof, and armed defnse is appropriate. Or should everybody simply challenge burglars to arm wrestling for the loot?

[benEzra]

11. And of course an armed robber fleeing from the police would NEVER discard the weapon...

but would dutifully keep it on his person, or preferably in his hand, in order to be a good witness against himself when caught.

:sarcasm:

[LiberalFighter]

12. I bet the store owner knew the burlar didn't have a weapon.

And I bet the store owner didn't fear for his life.
:scared: :sarcasm:

[safeinOhio]

17. Most likely no criminal charges.

I'm willing to bet the store owner will be out most of his money in civil court. Even if he wins, his cost will be huge. The jury will be convinced that the owner had many other options. Lots of questions, how far away was the man with the knife, any warnings or orders to drop the knife, shot in the front or rear? Jury's are not good on knife gun battles.

[sharesunited]

6. If he had not been shot by the owner and the police had simply caught him inside the store...

what penalty does the criminal code impose?

The death penalty?

See the disconnect here?

[slackmaster]

7. Yes, I can see the disconnect very clearly

The disconnect in your mind, between what actually happened and a hypothetical situation that did not happen.

The owner was there inside the store when Franco broke in. The owner had a right to defend himself.

[eqfan592]

9. Oh, you mean people should just do nothing to defend themselves...

...and rely on the good nature of a criminal breaking into their house/business instead? Like these people did?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x276616

So do you really value the life of a criminal so much more than the life of one of their victims?

[DonP]

14. If he had been good at science ...

... he might have become doctor or researcher and discovered a cure for plantar warts.

But he didn't. He decided it was easier to try and live off the work of others.

Any other random, pointless speculation you'd like to try? Might make a good reality show though.

Now the insensitive lout in me would like to see someone volunteer to countersue the girl friend and his family for the suffering, emotional damages and PTSD counseling he caused the store owner and his family.

[armueller2001]

16. And how exactly

does the business owner prevent himself from being harmed when confronted by the burglar?

See the disconnect here?

[AtheistCrusader]

20. They would have made every effort to save him.

Happens quite often, actually.

No penalty was imposed, just a natural result of anti-social behavior, hydraulics, and physics.

[one-eyed fat man]

23. Is there a criminal you won't defend?

Every time some crook gets shot, no matter how vile the crime, no matter how long the criminal history, no matter how many times the criminal has been in and out of prison you invariably claim the "death penalty" shouldn't have been imposed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=276762&mesg_id=276763

You can't even bring yourself to hold some subhuman detritus who ambushes and executes four cops in cold blood responsible for the murders!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=272174&mesg_id=272174

I am less sanguine and more practical. It has been amply demonstrated that after some shithead has spent most of his life robbing and stealing, and even after multiple stints in prison, that all the therapy, rehabilitation and wailing is nowhere as effective as one well-placed bullet at curing recidivism.

I can understand a stupid kid doing something stupid ONCE! I can understand someone desperate and out of work stealing food from a grocery to feed his family, ONCE. But when some asshole makes burglary, armed robbery, assault and homicide a career don't ever expect me to shed a tear should he come to an 'untimely end.' On the contrary, I will tell you now, I am far more likely to say, "About damn time!"

What I do not understand is some thug, who has been stealing, robbing and assaulting people, been in and out of prison over 10, 20 30 years, who's rap sheet is almost as voluminous as your posts whining about career criminals getting themselves shot, deserves your concern while you heap scorn on his victims for resisting.

Is there ANY circumstance where you would judge a thug's life properly forfeit through his actions?

[PavePusher]

26. Depends.

Was he waving a gun at the police? Instant death penalty. See your disconnect here?

[tburnsten]

27. Yeah. You think a guy in fear of his life

in his own residence and place of business in the middle of the night is the same as an entire arrest and court process.

Wake the fuck up.

[rd_kent]

29. The only disconnect I see is between you and reality.

Stay with us, man, reality is a much better place.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

32. Yes you seem quite disconnected from reality.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

33. It's kind of late to use the criminal code against him.

[NightRainFalls]

41. 21 feet

Dear Sharesunited,

If the police are in a closed business responding to a robbery call and a man with a knife confronts them, they shoot him.

Why?

Simple.

If a man with a knife is within 21 feet of you, he can run that distance and stab you in the time it takes to draw, aim and fire a gun.

Since most rooms are less than 21 feet across, and in most states you do not have a duty to retreat in your home or place of business, if the robber had a knife, and broke into the shooter's place of business, than the business owner's life was in imminent danger. Self defense is justified whether or not the the criminal court would impose a death sentence. The expedient of saving ones life by killing another, and society's interest in punishing people are two seperate things.

Yes, I do see the disconnect, and it seems pretty clear.

[old mark]

8. After reading the related articles, this is clear: He broke into a business,which was also

the residence of the business owner (He lived in an apartment in the basement) at 4:30 AM, and was discovered by the owner inside the locked, closed, place of business. The man then attacked the owner who physically grappled with him, finally shot him. The man fled, hid behind a car in a neighboring used car lot(this was on video), and died while hiding from police.
His defenders said he was "on his way home".....I guess he took a round about way.

I would certainly have shot him, too.
Time to stop feeling sympathy and making excuses for thieves.

mark

[LiberalFighter]

13. The burglar's family are not honest people.

Maybe the store owner can sue them for conspiring with the burglar to steal from him.

[safeinOhio]

18. No sympathy for the thieves here, but lots for the shooter.

Saw knife that was not there. That might cover you in not being charged, however, the families civil lawyer will destroy him in front of a jury. His life will be hell. Don't believe me, go spend a few days in civil court.

[spin]

22. That's why I like living in Florida ...

Florida’s ‘Stand Your Ground’ Law:

The Florida law is a self-defense, self-protection law. It has four key components:

* It establishes that law-abiding residents and visitors may legally presume the threat of bodily harm or death from anyone who breaks into a residence or occupied vehicle and may use defensive force, including deadly force, against the intruder.

* In any other place where a person “has a right to be,” that person has “no duty to retreat” if attacked and may “meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”

* In either case, a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful.

* If a civil action is brought and the court finds the defendant to be immune based on the parameters of the law, the defendant will be awarded all costs of defense. emphasis added
http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/current/in_our_opinion/florida-self-defense-law.htm

Also this article is interesting:

Published Tuesday December 22, 2009
Shooting called justified

By Jason Kuiper
WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER

A business owner who shot a man Saturday during a reported burglary will not be charged in the death.

Douglas County Attorney Don Kleine said this morning that the owner of Bazar Latino, 4324 S. 24th St., was justified when he shot Jesus Franco, 23. Kleine declined to identify the business owner.

Police said the incident began around 4:30 Saturday morning, when they were called to the business to investigate a burglary in progress.

Franco allegedly broke through the store's glass front door, police said, which alerted its owner. When the owner went to check on the noise, police said, Franco appeared from one of the aisles with his arm extended as though he had a weapon.

Kleine said Franco was "coming at" the business owner. The business owner shot at Franco, hitting him once. The two then struggled over the gun, Kleine said, and Franco fled from the business.
http://www.omaha.com/article/20091222/NEWS01/912229985/1009

My sympathy goes to the shooter not the intruder. The psychological effects of killing another person, even if the shooting is justified, are difficult to live with.

[safeinOhio]

24. Omaha is not in Florida

Your sympathy is well founded.
Civil and criminal are 2 different stories in most states. Lawyers are the same in all of them.
When you take a life, it is serious. Those that state the crook got what he deserved don't look very hard ahead. A small doubt that it was possible to stop the thief without killing him may linger a life time. The legal cost can wipe out a life time of saving and building a business.
I'm giving one side, neither side has enough information to make a judgement from a newspaper story.

[spin]

25. The store owner said he felt the intruder had a weapon...

because the man had his arm extended.

There's a good chance that that moment will play over and over in the store owner's mind. He will question his own actions and wonder if he would have acted differently, the shooting could have been avoided.

But the intruder, after being shot, did wrestle with the store owner over the firearm. That reaction might have been to prevent the store owner from shooting again. And the robber did hide from the police and lost the “golden hour” of emergency care that might have saved his life.

As you point out, the store owner will face legal expense and might end up losing his savings or his business. In such cases, Florida law discourages civil law suits as a means of revenge and profit.

[old mark]

28. We have had a "castle doctrine" here in PA for some time - I can legally defend my home

and family with force if necessary. I think this is a great idea, because even the dumbest theives think twice about breaking into an occupied home.

mark

[tburnsten]

35. No kidding, civil court is awful

Nearly anything can be used as evidence against someone in civil court, and the judge can do nearly anything he wants.

[slackmaster]

38. Hopefully the dead perp's family won't be able to afford a good lawyer

:nuke:

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

10. Evidently, the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

Thieving burglur shot dead trying to rob some store owner.
Dishonest family trying to finish the job of robbing the store owner.

:puke:

At least the family is doing it during business hours through litigation and not @ 4:30am through the window.

[AtheistCrusader]

19. Tough cookies.

Life is hard, especially when you go stealing other people's stuff, and giving them cause to fear for their lives.


On the other hand, if it turns out the victim lied to inflate his justification for shooting the invader, that's a crime, and I support prosecuting for it. But the guy could have ditched a knife damn near anywhere. Who knows, could have thrown it a block or two down the road, onto a roof or something. Anything's possible.

[proteus_lives]

21. Maybe he'll rise again in three days.

Sorry, couldn't help myself!

[oneshooter]

30. The "girlfriend" has no legal standing

to bring a suit as she would be considered the same as a friend, or acquaintance. The mother does have legal standing, as she is related. Nebraska does not have a Castle Doctrine in place.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[Tejas]

36. "Nebraska does not have a Castle Doctrine in place"

convenience store ;)

[oneshooter]

40. In most states the Castle Doctrine covers ALL legal shootings.

In Texas if you are not charged by a Grand Jury, or are found Innocent, or Not Guilty, then a civil trial is not going anywhere. This applies to ALL citizens, whether they are in their home, on the street, or at work.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. Interesting.

[WVRICK13]

31. Yeah He Sure Was in The Wrong Place

robbing a business is always the wrong place. I do understand the family since our families will love us even when we are wrong, that's just the way it should be.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. He was breaking into the wrong place at the wrong time.

[east texas lib]

39. Don't they all...

In fact the store owner should've just given all his cash and stock to Mr.Franco and absorbed the
loss. Why the very idea of protecting one's life and property is just insane! How dare he!