Roane homeowner kills burglar; second suspect charged

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

HARRIMAN — A homeowner fatally shot a 19-year-old Rockwood man during a burglary, and authorities have charged an alleged accomplice in the break-in.

Michael S. Johnson died at the Roane Medical Center of injuries sustained about 7:55 p.m. Sunday after he entered through a window of the home at 419 Old Valley Road, according to a report filed by Roane County Sheriff’s Office Detective Greg Scalf.

Authorities arrested Preston D. Harvest, also 19, of Harriman and charged him with attempted aggravated burglary and vandalism. He was being held today in jail in lieu of $52,000 bond.

According to Scalf’s report, the homeowner alerted authorities that someone had broken into his home and he believed he shot the intruder. Responding officers located Johnson and Harvest, but the report did not state where they were found.

“Mr. Harvest admitted to RCSO deputies at the scene that he and the shooting victim had planned on burglarizing the resident’s home earlier that day, and added that later they had come back to the home and had attempted to force the homeowner’s front door open,” Scalf wrote in the report.


http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/dec/21/roane-homeowner-kills-burglar-second-suspect-charg/

[beyurslf]

1. Good.

[panader0]

2. Not good.

A 19 year shot to death is not good. Perhaps he could have learned the wrongness of stealing and become a good man. I would rather give my stereo to someone than kill them for trying to steal it. Have you ever stolen anything? I mean anything. Are you morally superior enough to take someone's life for theft? You can't take your possessions with you when you die.

[rd_kent]

3. It is not about taking a life for a stereo.

Its about protecting my life and my families life against an intruder into my home. My possessions are nothing, and can be replaced, the life and well being of my family and myself cannot. I will not gamble my life or the life of my family because someone broke into my house.

[panader0]

7. So you'd kill a kid for a stereo?

How about just holding your gun on him until the cops showed up?

[safeinOhio]

10. How about securing your windows and doors?

How about alarms and panic buttons to keep them from entering? If they go thru my common sense, low cost security, shooting the intruder will be my last resort. If you can afford a gun and bullets, you can also afford basic security. I recommend both.

[eqfan592]

12. Sorry, but I disagree.

Alarms and panic buttons are not exactly cheap, and when a person can pick up a fairly reliable handgun for self defense for between $100-200, AND when the handgun can afford the person MUCH more in the way of actual self defense than an alarm, it makes little sense to go with an alarm first.

Your post is basically claiming that if a person can afford 100-200 bucks for a handgun, they can afford 300-400+ for a hand gun and alarm system. This just doesn't make sense for many lower income people.

Alarms are for deterrence (with questionable effectiveness), firearms are for defense. This is not to say I'm AGAINST alarms/panic buttons. If you can afford them, they may certainly help.

[rd_kent]

15. Thanks for your unsolicited advice, but my home is plenty safe.

With schlage deadbolts and ruger security.

[safeinOhio]

17. My home is so secure, I'll wake up when they break in.

Also, they'll have a hard time when I'm not home.

Try this and other sites you can google for inexpensive security.
http://www.robaughproducts.com/

I have a motion detector phone that will call my cell phone next to my bed if some one goes into my attached garage while I'm sleeping and will call it when I'm not even home. $51.00. About the current price of a box of shells. Cheap stickers on doors and window can send most evil doers to the next house. Stops on window make em crawl thru glass to get in. A box of 10x3 screws for hinges and strikers is about 6 bucks. I don't want to have to shoot anyone. I will, but try, best I can to not have to.
Sure you can buy a gun for 200 bucks, good luck. You might want to practice with it regularly and shoot up a box of shells every once in a while too. All of my guns cost way more than my security system. A secure home starts at points of entry, not under your pillow or on your night stand. It may end there, but not start there. I have guns and a CCW to protect me and my love ones. My wish and goal is to never have to use them. Many anti-gun folks read some of these post and get the feeling some are just hoping for the chance to cap a crook. I know your not that way, so don't give them reason to think that is how you are. It does little for the cause you support.

[eqfan592]

21. A couple of points....

...first of all, thank you for the link! I had no idea how inexpensive it could be to set up some simple alarms around the house, and I'm going to be investing in some of these items come tax return time. :)

Given this, I do see why you made your point about setting up alarm systems. A very basic system should be within the price range of anybody willing to purchase a firearm.

But I still stand by the firearm taking priority over the alarm system in the final estimation. An alarm is a great warning, and possibly a deterrent, but it can't actually stop somebody from hurting you. A firearm can. But I do agree with you that doing both really does make the most sense. :) Like you, my wish is also to never have to use any of my firearms for self defense.

I was already thinking about setting up some sort of alarm system simply because my wife and I are both very heavy sleepers, but I hadn't done any price checking as of yet. So thanks again for that site. :)

[safeinOhio]

22. I bought a book at a yard sale for 10 cents

just called Home Security. Very outdated, but lots of great cheap ways to secure doors and windows. Motion lights, I bought a couple for $24. each and set them up in the alley and back yard. I use to smoke on the porch and watch teens go down the alley all night. Now they go a different way. They don't like been in the spot light. Nice for the porch light too. I've thought about some of those cheap hidden cameras too. Check out this site

http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/
for $100 you can get any number of hidden cameras to get shots of any intruder while your not home. I want to see the bad guy caught. Stuff you never knew existed at that site.

I'm really with you on defending love ones and myself. Guns are an important part of it.

[GreenStormCloud]

39. I agree. The gun is the back-up for the alarms.

A basic, noisy, alarm system can be bought and installed fairly cheaply. Strong locks are great. If they deter the BG, everything is well and good. The gun is for when the other systems are breeched, and their noise should wake me up in time to be alert and aware with my gun.

I would be much happier if the BG goes somewhere else. Some of my posts that may sound bloodthirtsy are simply reflecting the fact that once the fight is on, I will not observe any PC rules.

[rrneck]

25. Your solution,

while good, would frequently depend on the whim of a landlord and/or the mechanical ability of the resident. Now if you want to pay somebody else to make those improvements to your property or somebody else's property with their permission, a couple of hundred bucks won't touch it.

[safeinOhio]

26. My friends grand daughter was attacked in her dorm room

She almost left school because she was afraid. The school would not allow any thing screwed in. I sent her a couple of door handle alarms, go off if any one touches the door knob and a wedge alarm that goes under the door. Sounds an alarm and jams the door. Also sent her a couple of Michigan legal mace sprays. All for about 40 bucks. She is again sleeping sound and will stay at school. Cheap, portable and effective. All allowed by the school or any landlord.
This stuff is cheap and doable. Many of the devices are for travel and motel rooms. Check out that web site.

[rrneck]

28. Thanks for the info.

Nothing wrong with alarms and beefed up infrasturcture. It's a lot better than shooting people. All I'm saying is that's not enough. There are times (thankfully rare) when the assailant is intent on much more than just carrying away some stuff, and he doesn't much care how much noise he makes in the process. Plus, of course, a gun can go with you a lot of places an alarm would be useless. I live in the country and it wouldn't matter how much noise they made or how long it took, they'd have my ass. And I'm still pretty fleet footed. :)

Please note - posted before I checked out your link.

[safeinOhio]

29. A few years ago I lived on a farm and

had to shoot a big rot that was coming at me. He had just attacked my horses. I understand the dangers that are out there. I suggest owning a gun and knowing how to use it. Practice with it and maintain it. Do everything it takes to not have to use it and stay safe.

[rrneck]

32. So agreed! nt

[PavePusher]

27. How about, I shouldn't frikken have to...

especially so some utter dirtbag can continue to safely be a dirtbag?

A dirtbag's physical safety is not my moral or legal obligation and, as long as this remains a free nation, never will be.

How about, I live in Tuscon, where it's a hundred and burned to death for 4-5 months out of the year, and to keep my electical bills low and keep the planet safer, I sleep with all my windows open so I don't have to run the AC. How about it costs $200+ dollars EACH to put ugly-ass security grids over those windows (8 windows of various sizes), and about $500 for the sliding door in the rear? And a few hundred to install an alarm system? I got a $600 Taurus .45 1911, and a $300 .22 conversion for it AND I CAN CARRY IT WITH ME and even take it to my next house!

How about I live alone on a very small lot and am in a highly mobile military profession, which make keeping dogs for guard duty equivalent to cruelty to animals?

I owe criminals NOTHING!

[eqfan592]

30. I wouldn't say an alarm system is just for the "dirtbag" though.

While it can somewhat deter a criminal from entering (and there's NOTHING wrong with that) it also is an effective means of alerting the people in the home that something is wrong (which is especially useful for those of us who are heavy sleepers).

Honestly, I don't want to have to shoot anybody, ever, if I can help it, so if I CAN do something to deter them from making me have to take it to that point, then I see that as a good thing, moral and legal obligations be damned.

EDIT for your edit: There are basic motion sensor alarms with key pads starting at $17, and an option with an auto-dialer for $32. I'm just putting this out there in case you would be interested in such alarms if you knew the low cost that they were available at, not because I think you MUST get them for any sort of moral obligation to any criminals.

FINAL EDIT: I don't think anybody is saying that you owe anything to the criminals, Pave. Just some of us think we owe it to ourselves to spare ourselves the emotional (and financial burden for those of us who might face civil lawsuits in our states) burden involved in shooting another person if at all possible.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't hesitate a second when it came down to it, but I know for a fact that I'd feel horrible for a very long time after.

[eqfan592]

11. Wow, what a loaded question.

Did you not read his post at all? How about if the kid tries to rush you the second he see's you or your make your presence known, which does happen a lot when people announce their presence in such situations, or how about it's dark and it appears that the person may be holding a weapon?

There's simply no "black and white" when it comes to home invasion situations as you're attempting to paint them. Nobody here is saying they WANT to kill somebody in a situation like this, they are saying that when it comes down to a choice between the life of their family and themselves and the life of a criminal who may do harm to them based off the actions he/she has taken so far, they are choosing themselves and their families. There's nothing immoral about this choice.

[rd_kent]

13. Would you beat a strawman?

Why not just set him on fire instead?

[eqfan592]

14. Sorry, but I can't set a strwaman on fire.

I'm morally opposed to it.

(sorry, but I just couldn't help myself! :P No offense intended to anybody! :) )

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

19. I missed the part about the stereo where was that exactly?

[GreenStormCloud]

38. Why should I risk my life to save a crook's life?

Real life isn't like the movies. In real life, action often beats reaction. If I try to hold him at gunpoint, I have surrendered the iniative to him. He can make a decision to fight and sent the message to his muscles without me knowing anything about it. Once he begins to move, I have to observe the movement, interpret it, decide upon my response, send the message to my muscles to respond, and that only puts me where he was a fraction of a second ago. I am playing catch up. If his gun was in his hand, he could shoot me before I could respond.

Sorry, he breaks into my house, I defend myself - with the absolute emphasis on me and my family coming out alive. That means I shoot with no warning. Fortunately, I live in Texas. We have the strongest Castle Doctrine law of any state.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

42. No... but I might use lethal force in defense if a kid forcefully breaks into my family's house.

[eqfan592]

4. I agree that a 19 year old being shot isn't "good"...

...but with that being said, this isn't entirely about protecting possessions. As a couple recently discovered, what appeared to be a normal break-in turned into one of them being beaten to death by one of the burglars after they tied the couple up during the break-in.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x276616

When a person breaks into your home, simply assuming that the criminal only has the "best of intentions" when it comes to your personal safety is simply not a rational position to hold.

[panader0]

8. I live out in the country.

Locking my doors while I'm gone would not deter a burgler. It would be easy to knock in the door or break a window. I don't own a gun, never have and never will. I don't believe in killing on moral grounds.

[eqfan592]

9. And I don't believe in placing the lives of my family and myself...

...in the hands of a criminal, on moral grounds.

Not owning a firearm is a free choice of yours, and I respect your right to make that choice, but don't attempt to act like you're morally superior somehow because you've chosen to potentially entrust your life to a criminal who likely cares little for the lives of you or your family.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

18. Well said!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. As do I with a notional 30 minute response from LEO assistance

Between the snakes with scales and the snakes on two feet, I could not survive out here with out firearms. Haven't had to shoot anybody out here yet, but there have been some close calls.

[proteus_lives]

34. I once called the cops because someone threw a beer bottle through my window.

And they never showed.

Never showed.

I'm very grateful that I had a firearm in case someone followed that beer bottle through.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. Both kinds of snakes have been problematic here

The scaly ones mostly in the spring, the other kind year round, though once I installed the mother of all gates, they have been less of an issue.

For a while the ATV community thought my property was open for public use. Some were even told that by a local MC shop. I put up a chain, private property/no trespassing signs to no avail. Finally I started having them towed. The latter really got them excited. Several close calls ensued. Local cop shop asked me not to tow any more because they were sure there was going to be violence. I reached deep and installed a serious gate at a choke point. It solved most of the intrusions. Also found out which shop was recommending my property and got them to stop. Its still listed on some ATV websites though. Had a repo man force the gate once. He went to jail that night and his tow truck got towed to the other end of the county. Helluva way to learn he had the wrong place.

[armueller2001]

36. So if someone

was attacking one of your family members, you wouldn't stop them?

Interesting.

Do you feel that it's OK for the police to kill people to stop them from harming others?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

5. Are you sure the homeowner was in absolutely no danger?

[Dr. Strange]

20. I suspect he's willing to stake the homeowner's life on it.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

24. I suspect you are right.

[beyurslf]

6. I have never broken into someone's home to steal something from them.

I suppose one could cay I have "stolen" office supplies from a job or food when I worked in fast food.

It is not about the possessions. It is about the sanctity of my home, the idea that my home is my safe place. It is having that peace robbed from you. Insurance replaces possessions but nothing replaces that peace.

I have had my house broken into 3 times all by kids I know. I am a foster parent and have kids who lived with me break in rob me after they leave my home. One of those times, I sat outside, in my car, helplessly down the street, trying to get the police there before they left. I watched them carry out my tv and electronics. Did they get caught? No. Did they pay a price? No. Are they still free today? Yes. Do I know that they have robbed other people? Yes. Did they learn a lesson? No. Did I? Yes.
So, I say good. If I had a gun that time, I would have taken out each one of those brats and saved us all a bunch of money.

[slackmaster]

16. 19 is old enough to understand the wrongness and stupidity of breaking in to an occupied home

Whatever he intended to do after that.

[Katya Mullethov]

31. I know for certain that you cant take mine with you when you die

Call it ....... tough love , a retroactive abortion . Planned Parenthod cant get them all .

[proteus_lives]

33. If someone tries to steal from me I'll take their life.

Go ahead give them your stereo, give them evidence that they can get away with it and the rules don't apply to them. Let them know you break the law and suffer no consequences.

After you give them your stereo, they're going to crack your skull when they demand something (or someone) you won't part with.

[GreenStormCloud]

37. Please see my thread: These people did not resist the criminal, but died anyway.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x277044

I would appreciate hearing your comments.

[WVRICK13]

35. Frankly I Don't Care

if someone backs a semi up to my house and empties when I am not home, as long as they don't hurt my pets. However, if they break in while I am home I have to assume me and my family are at personal risk and I will shoot them if I can. If they die they die.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. I'd rather not have my stuff stolen but I agree,