California ...Tracing device triggers backlash from gun industry ...

[spin]

Published: Wednesday, Dec. 30, 2009

California regulators have approved far fewer semi-automatic pistols for sale in the wake of a state law that required new safety devices in 2006 and 2007.

Now, with a new bullet-stamping law scheduled to take effect in 2010, the gun industry predicts it will introduce even fewer new models in California rather than install a device necessary to trace individual casings to a statewide database.

"California will become like Cuba with cars," said Lawrence Keane, senior counsel for the National Shooting Sports Foundation, which represents the gun industry. "You will only be able to get very old models of guns."

But gun enthusiasts in California are frustrated that they have less access to new models sold elsewhere, said Sam Paredes, executive director of Gun Owners of California.

"What's being sold are guns that really were designed four or five years ago," he said. "Gun owners are reading all the publications, watching the TV programs with the latest designs and equipment features, and they're fairy tales to Californians."
http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/2427189.html?

[SteveM]

1. Gee, I thought California faced a budget crisis or somethin' (nt)

[derby378]

2. Two words: black market

Illegal guns are pouring in from Mexico, China, etc. How does California plan to deal with a thriving black market?

[virginia mountainman]

19. Not to mention..

49 other states, now....

Next they will complain about the loopholes, but they forget, they are the ones that created the black market, and subsequent loopholes

[spin]

3. While "bullet stamping" sounds great to some ...

it only works if you use a semi-auto firearm. A revolver doesn't eject the brass.


The most common type of gun confiscated by police and traced by the ATF are .38 special revolvers, such as this Smith and Wesson Model 60 .38 Special revolver with a 3-inch barrel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

[MercutioATC]

4. Not to mention the ease of removing (by replacing) the stamping device.

Should be much cheaper than swapping out the barrel.

Another "feel good" law that lets somebody crow about "making a difference" while accomplishing nothing.

[FreakinDJ]

5. +10000

[eqfan592]

16. You hit the nail on the head.

Some morons are trying to push the micro-stamping thing here in Wisconsin. Thankfully, it doesn't appear to have the support to make it out of committee.

[Ernesto]

6. Just what are gun nuts afraid of here?

If they are such great citizens, why must they hide their identities?

[burrfoot]

8. I'm going to assume that

you're genuinely posing a question here, and not trying to offer a back-handed insult to those who don't support stamping.

I think you'll find that the issue isn't with gun owners not wanting to be known (after all, everyone with a CCW is on record with their state at the least); but rather with the possibility of falsely positive results.

Also, there's a question about the cost of the program- if implemented, and if it works right, you might in fact be able to trace the shell casing to a gun and from the gun to the owner. That's only useful, though, if the gun is legally registered to the person who used it in the crime. This leads to concerns that this amounts to expensive and almost entirely useless legislation.

[TPaine7]

9. Please post your name, address, Social Security number, weight, height and hair and eye color.

Otherwise, explain what the First Amendment nuts (internet posters) are afraid of.

Thank you in advance, Great Citizen.

[rd_kent]

10. What gun nuts are you referring to? Your use of hyperbole shows that you have no real interest

in having your question answered, you just wanted to score a cheap, emotional shot at the expense of everyone else.

[DrCory]

11. Why don't you provide your full personal info in your DU profile? N/T

[slackmaster]

12. There are all kinds of ways that microstamping could cause problems

They're pretty obvious if you think about it, but for discussion consider the possibility that someone could take brass that you fired from your gun and plant it at a crime scene.

[proteus_lives]

14. Unlike you, we don't love Big Brother.

Please list all personal information in your response.

No?

Why, what are you afraid of?

[Merchant Marine]

15. Civilian with a stamped 9mm Beretta goes to the range

fires off a few hundred rounds for fun.

An enterprising criminal comes by, picks up a few stamped casings and spreads them around at his next hit after cleaning up his own casings. The police are led on a happy dead end by the stampings, the civilian gun owner is harassed and maybe falsely charged and imprisoned.

Not worth it.

[eqfan592]

17. Bingo.

Seriously, how do thoughts like this just not occur to the people that make up the state legislature in California? I'd never buy a micro-stamped gun for this reason alone.

[Katya Mullethov]

18. The arrogance & indifference on display here is simply astounding

HEY ! At least they're "trying" .

[spin]

22. Well if passing a foolish law counts as trying ...

it's fairly easy to predict that this law will result in few solved cases, if any

The shooting industry will probably simply refuse to produce new firearm models with this feature. Consequently, Californians will not have the chance to buy these new models.

And exactly why should the manufacturers desire to produce a new model with a feature that would limit sales? Many shooters would avoid this firearm like a plague.

Smith and Wesson revolvers are currently manufactured with a key operated safety lock.



This feature has caused many customers to avoid purchasing new S&W revolvers. Gun forums have discussed incidents when this feature has locked the gun accidentally and prevented it from firing. One member of the range I used to shoot at, stated that he had this happen while he was shooting. Indeed, the firearm was locked. I used my S&W key to unlock it as he didn't have his key with him. He had no further problems that day, but said that he planned to sell, "this fucking useless piece of shit!" Note: I personally have had no problems with the lock on the revolvers I own. Still, my prime carry revolver is pre-lock.

Many people who buy new S&W revolvers disable the safety lock. Many just buy used pre-lock S&W revolvers.


I would suggest that the new law is just an attempt by politicians to stop the sale of new semi-auto firearms in California. Coupled with their draconian new law that deals with the purchase of ammo, they hope to legislate new firearms out of existence and make ammo more expensive and hard to purchase.

Starting February 1st, 2011 handgun ammunition vendors will be required to obtain a thumb fingerprint and driver's license from buyers. One firearms dealer we spoke to in town said criminals will find another way to get their bullets.

To buy ammo in California a vendor only needs proof of age. But that has changed. In a year and a half a new law will require vendors like Bill Mayfield to keep track of all handgun ammunition sales. The goal is to better track the bullets used in crimes, but Mayfield said it won't work.

Mayfield said, "You're gonna force every law abiding citizen to go through paper work that these people won't. The gang-banger, 90% of what their using is probably stolen in the first place."

The new law also states ammunition must be safely stored behind the counter and sales made face to face. Mayfield warned he will have to raise his prices.


***snip***

Any violation of this new law and the offender faces a misdemeanor charge. Because all transactions must be face to face that means sales on-line must cease.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php

This idea of registering all purchases of handgun ammo was tried years ago at a federal level and failed miserably. All that was accomplished was the depletion of enormous forests to provide the paper.

[Katya Mullethov]

24. Ah , so California fired Cheaper Than Dirt then

And everybody else in online ammo sales .

[spin]

23. Do you go around dropping notes with your name and social security number...

all over town?

Semi-auto pistol eject spent brass. Often at a range, I was lucky to recover 45 out of 50 brass cases after shooting. I reloaded my ammo and cases are reusable.

I leave 5 cases laying around and some fool decides to pick them up and scatter them at a crime scene. I get harassed by the police.

I don't need that. Plus the police don't need to spend time chasing false leads.

[Francis Marion]

25. Maybe you'll lead by example.

Those who exercise their second amendment rights, and who resist infringements of those rights, are 'nuts.'

Let's focus on the real issue: this latest incremental legislative assault upon our gun rights, same script year by year, law by law. You see, it works this way with our rights: we'll fight each loss and marginalization because Liberty is precious, and enemies of gun rights will never be satisfied by anything short of complete public disarmament. And unless you live in a storefront, drop the privacy polemics unless you already live by your own standards of transparency which you have so thoughtfully crafted for others.

So that's why we fight each law. Because government has no business here. Maybe you should link your computer to a government database, it's for your own good. As an upstanding citizen, you're certainly not 'afraid' to accept this common sense infringement upon your speech.

The real question is why are legislators and disarmament lobbyists hell bent on disarmament?

[Euromutt]

26. Essentially, that replacing a broken firing pin will become a major hassle

Microstamping occurs by the firing pin leaving a microscopic imprint on the cartridge case. For there to be any point to this, the firing pin must bear the same serial number as the weapon. Problematically, the firing pin is a part that inherently suffers wear and tear, may even break, and would therefore require replacement at some point. This is not a major issue; a firing pin for a 1911 costs $6-$16 (depending on the material), a factory firing pin for a Glock costs ~$34.

But a legal requirement of microstamping means that, to remain compliant with the law, you can't simply replace a worn or broken firing pin: the replacement has to be custom made for your specific gun. That's going to increase the cost of the part, and really, it requires that spare firing pins be made controlled items, akin to full-auto sears.

Then there's the concern that a microstamping firing pin may wear down just enough that it's still functional as a firing pin, but no longer leaves a legible microstamp, at which juncture compliance with the law requires that an otherwise functional part be replaced with an expensive custom-made part involving paperwork.

The upshot being that microstamping will be a royal pain in the ass for someone seeking to remain compliant with the law, while being fairly easy to circumvent for someone intending to break it. Because firing pins need to be replaceable (in case they wear or break), it would still be possible to replace microstamp pins with blank ones (for which a black market might readily sprout up), or simply to obscure the microstamp by lightly filing the tip of the pin.

[Hoopla Phil]

7. Are police officers/departments required to use these "stamping" guns? Or are they

exempt from it?

[spin]

13. Good question! (n/t)

[oneshooter]

20. What I would love to see is

The gun and ammo companies do a "Ronnie Barrett" on California.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[Katya Mullethov]

21. Cheaper Than Dirt fired them

As of 2011 , WTF ? ............. 2011 ?

Not exactly standing on their priciples on this one .