Guns in restaurants that serve alcohol....Since some seem confused...

[virginia mountainman]

I notice in several threads, where people complain about "guns being allowed" in places that serve alcohol. Folks wondering that if "that was allowed"..Folks, it does not need to be "allowed" just NOT DISALLOWED..

For clarification, all these threads about guns where alcohol is served, and hand wringing when it is learned that it is allowed in one state or other. Truth of the matter is, Sitting down, with your family and having a meal in a place that serves alcohol, is perfectly legal in the vast majority of the nation..

Actually, gun bans in such places, IS, abhorrent, to most states..



Now that is cleared up, we can talk about bringing those 8 or 10 states in line with the rest of the nation...

[sharesunited]

1. What you are seeing is people's natural revulsion in learning just how far the gun lunacy has gone.

[Pavulon]

2. It is insane that I have gone through 2 SSBI's, have held clearances,

have a ccw permit and cant carry into an olive garden (kidding). Still very stupid law in NC.

[Taitertots]

17. What are you talking about?

Public support for CCW laws is a major factor in their near nationwide acceptance.

[pipoman]

19. Yep, this is a fact

all of the yelping about how the NRA is behind these laws is utter nonsense. They do support many of them, they may run ads. The reason these laws have passed is strong support within the states, no demonstrable negative impact on crime. If only same sex marriage had the same acceptance and public support.

[rd_kent]

23. Considering that states have been easing CCW and open carry restrisctions, you would be wrong.

[sharesunited]

31. That's just gun love and ammo amore.

[rd_kent]

32. I know, Im stroking mine right now.

I really wanted to turn over a new leaf this year shares, but your posts are so full of douche-baggery that you make it impossible.

[taurus145]

46. There you go again insulting douche bags

I keep telling y'all, they serve a useful purpose. Stop insulting them.

:spank:

[Tim01]

37. You just got proved dead wrong, so you go to insults. nt

[BOSSHOG]

3. Change the laws in those "red" states

I just can't wait for my wife and I to go down to the French Quarter in New Orleans to have a nice meal one evening (which we often do) and some "Patriot" decides to take out the Wait Staff cause the silverware is dirty. Won't that be cool? After all, what are well armed militias for?

[geckosfeet]

7. Have you ever been in the French quarter? There are more armed to the teeth

law enforcement per square yard than I have ever seen anywhere.

[MichaelHarris]

22. are you

saying you can't wait to shoot someone in the French Quarter?

[rd_kent]

26. Yeah, because that happens all the time, right?

I mean, those CCW holders are a real menance.

[PavePusher]

33. Please point out where that has been happening...

where carry is legal.

Hint: A statistically meaningful number would support your hyperbolic innuendo...

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oneshooter]

15. My preference is for the defence of my life, a firearm is the logical choice. n/t

[geckosfeet]

5. MA allows concealed carry only if you have a license. Open carry

licenses are not easy to come by and there are restrictions.

Your statement and your map seem to imply that anyone can carry wherever and whenever they want to since it has not been disallowed. This is not true.

The right to carry concealed anywhere in the state is allowed only with a license.

[Arctic Dave]

6. That is because the alcohol laws the govern a bar and restaurant are different.

You would most likely have to check your state board to see the different codes.

[hlthe2b]

8. I can understand gun advocacy... I can respect gun advocacy..

But, what I can not understand for the life of me, is how one argues that alcohol and guns is not a recipe for disaster....:shrug:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. The presumption that I will be drinking in any establishment that serves alcohol is the problem.

Such as an Olive Garden.


If I am drinking in a public establishment or in a place dedicated to the active consumption of alcohol (bar without restaurant) the no gun rule is reasonable even if I am the designated driver.

[hlthe2b]

13. That is an extreme viewpoint... Certainly the majority of those

in a bar are drinking... Policy, regulation, and laws can not take into account every outlier situation. The issue is whether it is intelligent policy to allow guns where alcohol is likely to impact judgement for a large proportion of those present.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. How so? It is an alcohol means no gun position.

I said I had no problem with banning them in bars, or while consuming alcohol in a public venue. Its the ban in family restaurants without bars that are licensed to serve beer/wine that is troublesome. From my observation, few adults drink alcohol there, espcially at lunch.

My personal rule already is consume alcohol means no firearms/no motorcycles.

[hlthe2b]

20. If it could be enforced, I'd see your point...

[X_Digger]

38. Considering CCW/CHL licensees already overwhelmingly obey the law..

.. regardless of the fact that whether or not they're carrying is not visible to the naked eye, why would you think (if I read your statement correctly) that they might be disinclined to not follow this rule? (if you carry, don't drink..)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. Easily if there was probable cause for a blood alcohol test

I understand that blanket prohibitions are easier, but I really don't care if our rights can be inconvenient for ruling and political classes at times.

There are some cops out there who get real antsy about civilians with CCWs on their beat. They too need to grow up.

[PavePusher]

34. And carriers are not allowed to drink...

in the vast majority of the States that allow carry in bars.


Again, please point out where it has been a significant problem...

[Learning Nomad]

9. The map is somewhat inaccurate as far as South Dakota

where firearms are illegal in facilities that derive more than 1/2 of their income from the sale of alcoholic beverages.

[oneshooter]

14. In Texas the restaurant is required by law

To post a 51% sign if more than 51% of their sales are from alcohol. If they exceed that limit and do NOT post the required sign the TABC will give them great grief. If they do not meet that limit and post the sign the TABC will give them great grief. In the latter case they can post a 30.06 sign.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[X_Digger]

41. Yeah, appears to be best case scenario..

.. ie, <51% restaurant in TX, not going into the 'bar' area in other states..

Though the point is valid that in all the green states, there are certain circumstances where CHL/CCW licensees can go to some restaurants that serve alcohol.

[Euromutt]

47. That's why it says "carry in restaurants"

It's similarly illegal in Washington state to carry in any premises declared to be off-limits to persons under 21 by the state Liquor Control Board, i.e. bars, "lounges" (bars attached to restaurants), and bar areas of restaurants. But the map is about establishments that do serve alcohol, but aren't primarily dedicated to the serving and consumption of alcoholic beverages.

Which is kind of the point of this thread: to make the distinction between establishments that primarily serve as watering holes on the one hand, and places that incidentally serve alcohol on the other, and that laws that permit licensed carry in the latter do not necessarily mean that it will be legal in the former.

[benEzra]

52. That's how it is in Florida as well.

Licensed carry in restaurants that serve alcohol is fine. So is carry in a restaurant with a bar, as long as you aren't at the bar. And of course no drinking.

Here in NC, where the puritans rule, licensed carry is illegal in any restaurant with a wine list, even if no one in with you (or even no one in the whole restaurant) is drinking.

[Bonhomme Richard]

11. In CT you are not allowed to drink while carrying and...

you are not allowed in a bar with a gun. Only restaurants that happen to sell alcohol. It is not as open as the chart alleges.
Are you allowed to drink while carrying is the more accurate question.

[TheWraith]

12. Being unable to drink while carrying is standard in almost all states.

Either drinking at all, or being legally intoxicated, depends on the state.

[X_Digger]

42. Well, looks like the chart references 'restaurants' not bars.. n/t

[Glassunion]

55. Not to mention that it is just common sense

If you carry, you should not drink. Period.

[Cronus Protagonist]

16. Yeah, sure, go ahead and try and carry a gun into a bar in CA

lol

[virginia mountainman]

24. OK, point to a state law in CA making it illigal...NT

[Cronus Protagonist]

44. Yeah, now, back in teh real world...

Carrying a weapon, any weapon, legal or not, will get you refused entry in every bar I've ever been in. You might get away with it if you know the bar owner and it's, say, Hemet. In Los Angeles, you would be denied entry everywhere. They wand you when you go in, so concealed or not, you would not be going in, unless you shoot the bouncer, I guess.

[rd_kent]

50. "They wand you when you go in" - Puh-lease! What bar owner wands its patrons?

Maybe the trendy LA nightclubs do that, but that is the exception, not the rule.....

[X_Digger]

43. Restaurant, not bar..

http://www.lasd.org/contact_us/inquiry/gen_pub_ccw_app.pdf

While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall
not, when carrying a concealed weapon:
· Consume any alcoholic beverage.
· Be in a place having a primary purpose of dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-site consumption.

Restaurant.. not bar.

[Cronus Protagonist]

45. OK, I misread the OP

Thanks for pointing that out. We don't have bouncers in restaurants here, as a rule, so no one could enforce a concealed carry restriction anyway. Besides, has anyone mentioned how hard it is to get a concealed carry license in CA? It's not easy.

[X_Digger]

51. Oh agreed, rare as hen's teeth. n/t

[benEzra]

53. Well, it's not easy if you don't donate lots of $$$ to your local politicians.

It seems those with the financial capability to donate and schmooze have far less trouble getting carry licenses, just as in NYC.

[MichaelHarris]

21. it's a

shame your map is so wrong and unsourced.

[virginia mountainman]

25. Yet you cannot defeat it...NT

[MichaelHarris]

28. deafeat what?

this thread is full of posts pointing out it's flaws!

[rd_kent]

27. Its wrong? How?

[MichaelHarris]

29. read the posts!

gun owners even pointed out the flaws in that map.

[virginia mountainman]

30. Not flaws...CONDITIONS...

Like "no drinking" or "gun must be concealed" or even, "you must be licsenced"....

Map as a whole, is correct....

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rd_kent]

36. If anyone is two sandwiches short of a picnic, michael, its you.

[Euromutt]

48. That's not because the map is wrong

It's because they misunderstood what the map represents. You'll notice most of the criticisms were along the lines of "but you can't carry in a bar in state X." The map isn't about bars, it's about restaurants that serve alcohol.

[benEzra]

54. The map shows the states where carry in restaurants that serve alcohol is not prohibited.

I don't mind conditions (no drinking, 51% rule, etc.); I do mind the absolute prohibition on carry in restaurants with wine lists that we have here. Of course, NC is largely run by authoritarian neo-puritans, so our alcohol laws can be a little wierd (IIRC we still have "dry counties"). We've gotten rid of most of the blue laws, but some still exist, and there's a little bit of Jim Crow still extant as well.

[metallic]

39. Louisiana is incorrect

It's the position of the Louisiana State Police that carry in a restaurant is legal as long as you stay out of any portion of the restaurant that contains a bar. The law is just somewhat ambiguous on this area.

[Dappleganger]

49. We can sit in the restaurant but not the bar.

In FL. Hooters is sort of a grey area which most ccw's I know don't want to get into, but places like Chili's, etc. you can sit in the restaurant area but not the bar. Going to a place where they serve primarily alcohol and deviled eggs on the side is a big no.