Suspect killed in alleged carjacking attempt

[oneshooter]

Police are investigating the death of a man who was killed when he allegedly tried to carjack another man in the homeowner's northwest Houston driveway Saturday evening, authorities said.

A man was headed to the side door of his home in the 800 block of Thornton around 6 p.m. when he was approached by an unidentified gunman allegedly trying to carjack him, Houston Police Department homicide investigator D. Gunter said.

A struggle ensued between the two men, and the alleged carjacker was shot and killed, Gunter said. His identity is pending an autopsy.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6796375.html

Not a lot of info. Middle class part of town. Good guys-1 Goblin -0
You would think that they would learn that Texans don't put up with this kind of stuff.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[sharesunited]

1. The assailant was a gunman. This one starts with a gun. Zero points given.

[Tejas]

2. As usual, you're not happy unless it's bare knuckles.

Go figure.

[sharesunited]

5. It goes to the purpose of the post. A gun is argued to have saved the day.

But the incident was commenced with a gun.

It amounts to a silly, circular justification.

[slackmaster]

7. The other side of the "circular justification" is your apparent assumption that the crime...

...would not have occurred if neither party had a gun; which is not even a plausible situation. But even in a hypothetical alternative universe the assailant might have used a knife or a blunt object, or the situation might have ended up as a fist fight.

Second-guessing a positive outcome indicates that you really don't care that the right person won the fight. You just want to get rid of the guns for your own personal reasons.

[sharesunited]

12. It's no less valid than claiming that gun and ammo proliferation promote the general welfare.

Gun love and ammo amore are personal reasons too.

Affection, worship, self-centered empowerment over life and death.

Whatever the source of the depraved insistence.

[Tejas]

14. "depraved insistence" - translates to it's my

life, my family, my stuff...and you are not "entitled" to any of them.

[sharesunited]

19. In the end, you are not entitled to any of them either, because they all go away.

[TheWraith]

30. So you believe a person has no right to defend their life and the lives of their family?

Well, yeah, we kind of suspected that. Nice to know it for sure.

[sharesunited]

31. The means you propose to use simply impose a greater threat upon you.

You never come out ahead in that bargain. You just spiral down.

[Tejas]

41. Bring many knives to gunfights?

[TheWraith]

74. Do you believe a person has a right to self defense? Yes or no.

You're obfuscating.

[Tejas]

33. Until then, unless you are suicidal......

[sharesunited]

36. Not sure why you feel you can get off the first round. Optimism I guess!

[Tejas]

40. So, you're armed?

[sharesunited]

42. Now that WOULD be a hazard.

[GreenStormCloud]

45. We will accept that your judgement of yourself is accurate.

But please don't think that we are like you.

[tburnsten]

51. Why, are you a rapist?

Mentally unstable?


Serial killer?


Poacher?


Armed robber?

[sharesunited]

55. Revolutionary.

[eqfan592]

69. BUWAHAHA!!!

That's rich. Sorry, but some guy spewing irrational ravings on a message forum as you do does not count as a "revolutionary."

[sharesunited]

75. How about a guy in a loincloth walking to the sea to make salt?

[GreenStormCloud]

44. It enables me to rapidly get the better of a violent criminal who...

brings a knife, club, or his fists to the event. And it puts me on an even level with the guy with the gun. Perhaps you may have missed the many news stories that we post of good guys who have beaten the criminal who had a gun, such as the OP in this thread.

It works like this: Action beats reaction. By practicing situational awareness I am able to be alerted to the probability of attack and be prepared. IOW, I can slip my hand into my pocket and have my gun already in my hand when the criminal produces his. If need be, I can fire from within my pocket, before he even sees that I am also armed.

[sharesunited]

56. Your way just breeds faster and more ruthless killers.

[GreenStormCloud]

59. But the crime rate has been dropping for about the last 15 years.

In that same time about 100 million new guns have been sold. If your theory were correct, the crime rate should have skyrocketed, but it didn't. Your FAIL again.

[sharesunited]

64. Glad to hear about any improvement in the crime rate. Do better. Eradicate the gun threat.

[tburnsten]

65. So the number of privately owned guns in the US skyrockets,

at the same time as accidents involving firearms plummet and crime also falls, though not dramatically, and you see it as a "gun threat" that needs to be eradicated?


Weird. I would (and do) see them as unrelated events, with private ownership of guns having absolutely nothing to do with crime at all.

But then I see planet Earth when I look out my windows.

[GreenStormCloud]

43. The Declaration of Independence says you are self-evidently wrong.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

The following people have left a message for you.

New Hampshire: Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton

Massachusetts: John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry

Rhode Island: Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery

Connecticut: Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott

New York: William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris

New Jersey: Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark

Pennsylvania: Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross

Delaware: Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean

Maryland: Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton

Virginia: George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton

North Carolina: William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn

South Carolina: Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton

Georgia: Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton

[sharesunited]

58. Those are all single-shot front-loaders. They need to see what we are contending with today.

[GreenStormCloud]

60. Life is a single-shot front loader? Please do pay attention.

You claimed that we didn't have a right to life. I posted a statement from the DofI. Your statement has nothing at all to do with a right to life.

[sharesunited]

62. Life is finite. However, it does not need to end by having bullets enter your body.

Gun love increases the likelihood of that outcome.

[GreenStormCloud]

67. Which is why I have self-defense guns.

I have a right to life, and a right to defend my life. However, if having guns made people unsafe, then the crime rate should have gone up instead of down. After all, 100,000,000 new gun have been bought in the past 20 years and the crime rate has gone down. Therefore, the general public is safer, and I in particular am safer.

[Katya Mullethov]

25. There are only two things worth fighing for

"Your family and the constitution " might be shortened to " Abandon all hope ye whom enter here "

[sharesunited]

32. If you're fighting for access to guns and ammo, that is the most futile fight of all.

[GreenStormCloud]

46. Futile? We have had 15 years of legislative and court victories.

And we are about to get the 2nd incorporated. I would say that that our fight is going quite well.

[Katya Mullethov]

49. I was paraphrasing Butler

The point being that a rational pacifist can see there are things worth fighting and dying for if that is the bargain you are dealt .

[GreenStormCloud]

50. I was responding to sharesunited.

Your posts are enjoyable as they are rational with some sly humor thrown in. Since sharesunited uses Butler as his avatar, your comment was up to your usual high standards. Butler would have strongly disagreed with sharesunited.

[tburnsten]

52. +1

The Dalai Lama feels that it is appropriate to defend your life with lethal force if that is what your assailant forces you to do. I agree with him, and can hardly see him described as a violent person or gun-obsessed.

[sharesunited]

57. And destroy our society in the process? Gun love knows no bounds.

[GreenStormCloud]

61. Crime rate has been dropping, so society is not being destroyed. N/T

[sharesunited]

63. Glad to hear about any improvement in the crime rate. Do better. Eradicate the gun threat.

[eqfan592]

70. That makes NO sense whatsoever.

The crime rate has had some peaks and valley's over the years, with us currently at a (if I recall correctly) 40 year low, while during that time the gun ownership rate has steadily increased. There does not appear to be any relationship between the two. So your statement makes no sense in any way, shape, or form. Want to do better? Work harder to fight poverty and for better schools. You should toss in better mental health care as well. Because your mini-crusade of ignorance is doing more harm than good, shares.

[PavePusher]

73. I think most people would at least consider giving up firearms...

provided you guarantee disarmament (total) of criminals first, and guarantee that government will not become abusive.

Please lay out your plans for those steps, then you have a talking point.

[sharesunited]

77. The compromise position is ceasing all retail sales of new guns and ammo.

Turn off the spigot.

There is enough out there already.

Let them become collectibles.

[PavePusher]

78. Again, criminals and governments first.

How do you propose to ensure that?

[sharesunited]

79. Ensure what? That the existing supply of guns and ammo can slake the lust?

Prices will rise. But Chris Rock discusses the benefits of bullets costing $5,000.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4DnNKKIfrM

[Katya Mullethov]

83. A 5,000 dollar cartridge ?

You reckon someone might consider a box of 2,500 dollar bootleg cartridges worth shooting someone over ? That would be ironic .

I suspect he was speaking of complete cartridges . I can get (9) 44 caliber balls (boolits) by cutting the posts off your typical car battery ( ever seen one? I sell tons of em ) and it took me 2.5 hours to cast 492 of them a couple of weeks ago . FYI . Casting is an ancient and forgotten art wherein you melt the lead in a cast iron skillet on a wood fire and then pour it into a 19 dollar two cavity mold . Many metal items were once made in this way . Now you have to go run and buy them from the store . lol

[sharesunited]

84. You need to have a knock on the door and be cautioned against what you are doing.

You have just admitted that you are doing it. I am giving you an opportunity to stop and preserve your liberty.

[GreenStormCloud]

86. Making your own bullets is not illegal. N/T

[sharesunited]

88. Good friend, the ATF will be the SOLE judge of that.

[X_Digger]

90. Daft. completely daft..

Go visit the reloading section of a big box gun store, or larger sporting goods stores.

Man I hope you were kidding, otherwise I've wasted more brain cells on replies to you than you're worth.

[sharesunited]

91. What would a revolutionary do?

He would shut down your retail supplier of arms and make you shoot your way out with what you had.

[sharesunited]

92. And then he would explain your options.

[GreenStormCloud]

111. I don't like your so-called revolutionary's options.

I like the ones provided by the Constitution much better.

[X_Digger]

93. I really wonder..

.. are you _playing_ at being this dense? I would have to think so. Otherwise, we've all been conversing with an Eliza program set on 'stupid'.

[Katya Mullethov]

97. Like I keep telling you cats

its an ARFcommer having a big laugh at your expense . Hence my hesitance at given 'em the noodle .

[Katya Mullethov]

94. So , we find ourselves studying your battered visage

Do I cut your mullet , or give you the noodle ?

I say -CATCH AND RELEASE- !! Just like your buddies in the courts do.

[sharesunited]

96. I will definitely take it if it is offered!

[GreenStormCloud]

95. Fortunately, you don't get to dictate the laws.

Nor does the BATFE get to decide the outlaw making your own bullets. They must follow the laws that are made by legislators. Home casting of bullets is legal.

[tburnsten]

99. You are truly an idiot

[PavePusher]

106. Your ignorance is stupifying. n/t

[rd_kent]

112. You sir, are an absolute moron if you think making your own bullets is illegal.

[slackmaster]

115. Is there any doubt that sharesunited is a radical authoritarian?

:nuke:

[oneshooter]

85. $5000 per cartridge!!! I'M RICH!!!!!! n/t

[sharesunited]

89. You have a distorted view of the life-giving properties of gunpowder.

[oneshooter]

117. And you Sir, Have a distorted view of reality. nt

[PavePusher]

105. Nice tap dance.

I will ask you once more to answer the question.

[tburnsten]

98. How is that a compromise?

[sharesunited]

101. The compromise is one allowing home harboring of guns and ammuntion. Work with me here essay.

[Katya Mullethov]

103. So you are going to allow them in my home ?

Or have you had your bell rang so many times tonight you cant keep your hyperbolic masturbation straight ?.... Or...... did you already get a nut ? I always get sleepy at that point .

[tburnsten]

110. "harboring"? What are you an SS officer?

[burrfoot]

113. umm....."esse" I think is what you were looking for there.

[beevul]

109. Ahh yes. The "cocteau" plan...

Be well...

[slackmaster]

68. I, for one, have never made any such an empirically untestable claim about gun ownership

My support for it is based on respect for individual liberty, privacy, and self-determination.

Those happen to be the exact same reasons I support same-sex marriage and legal elective abortion.

[sharesunited]

100. Here's why you're wrong. Becuz a gun toting enthusiast can impose his will.

He will try to persuade you that his defense depends upon it.

But he really wants to point the gun at you, and personally decide whether to blast you or give you a chance to protest or argue that you be spared.

[PavePusher]

107. Proof?

Else you are a mendacious rectal cavity.

[GreenStormCloud]

108. Statistics prove you wrong.

But he really wants to point the gun at you, and personally decide whether to blast you or give you a chance to protest or argue that you be spared.
That is a gun crime. Legal gun owners are rarely involved in gun crimes.

[Tejas]

9. Again, you're not happy

I'll see if I can google up some report of a carjacker getting his a** handed to him via a broken jaw.

Will that make you feel better? Not that I care....

[PavePusher]

18. Is it good that the victim (the car owner)...

survived the attack?

If the victim had stabbed the attacker to defend himself, would that be moral?

If the victim had punched the attacker and killed him, would that be moral?

[sharesunited]

21. Yes it is good he survived. I am on the victim's side. And he was attacked with a gun.

If the assailant didn't have a gun, there would be no story to post.

[PavePusher]

24. So, no crime ever happens with knives, clubs, hands or feet? n/t

[sharesunited]

29. When you make guns available to combat it, you make guns available to commit it.

You say this is worth the price to society.

I say your so-called solution just enables worse trouble.

[GreenStormCloud]

47. Guns can't be uninvented. Criminals will always be able to get them.

All that you can do is make the law-abiding people helpless against criminals. I consider that an evil outcome.

[slackmaster]

72. I'd rather defend myself with a gun against someone armed with a gun,

Than have to defend myself with a knife against someone armed with a knife.

I've been trained in both firearms and edged weapons. I think I'd have a better chance of winning a gun fight than a knife fight.

[PavePusher]

76. How do you suggest that small or physically weak persons...

defend themselves from larger, stronger criminals?

How do you suggest an individual defend themselves from a group of criminals?

Are you volunteering to aid them, in place of a firearm?

[slackmaster]

71. You have nothing to back up that claim...

If the assailant didn't have a gun, there would be no story to post.

Bullshit.

[aikoaiko]

11. If you think a gun started this crime, what is your explanation for all the forcible and violent

felonies that don't involve a gun?

:shrug:

[sharesunited]

17. I don't think the gunnies can have it both ways.

When I decry gun violence, they say don't blame the guns. They say focus on the reasons for violence and fix those.

But if violence is commenced by a means other than firearms, the response is that this is why we need guns.

That's just escalating the threat of violence. What happened to focusing on fixing the underlying reasons?

Round and round we go, because guns are continually elevated into being the most important value.

Everything flows from I Must Have A Gun, Otherwise I Am Vulnerable Or Incomplete.

[aikoaiko]

34. When you decry gun violence, its true that you'll hear people ask you to focus on underlying causes

but if you notice most pro-gun, pro-rkba folks are also insistent on keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and punishing 2st time users of guns in crimes with long prison sentences. The only caveat you'll get from me is that gun control laws not keep guns out of the hands of law abiding folks. Such laws are patently unreasonable.

When someone defends him or herself with gun from a violent criminal it is, generally, not illegal behavior. It is justifiable and moral to defend yourself or others from violent criminals. But yes, we can still talk about the underlying reason for the criminals who don't use guns.

If you were able to remove guns from all law abiding folks, I am sure you will admit that you will not be able to disarm most criminals anymore than the drug prohibition has keep the black market on drugs has worked. In this case you would be escalating the threat of violence in the favor of criminals.

Handguns, rifles, and shotguns are reasonable means for individuals to protect themselves if they wish to.

So if I understand you correctly, you're not actually claiming that a criminal act with a gun starts with the gun -- that that is only a red herring position you're taking because you think it analogous to the pro-rkba position. Is that correct?

[proteus_lives]

53. It starts with a criminal.

You truly are blind.

[mrbarber]

119. Luckily nobody cares about your "point system" but you.

But keep on shrilly screaming, it's amusing.

[notadmblnd]

3. Thats called stealing a car out of a driveway

not a carjacking. Come spend a week in Detroit Shooter, they'll show you what a carjacking is.

[oneshooter]

4. No Thank You. I do not enter a war zone unarmed!

[Tejas]

13. In Texas, it's also called suicide.

By the way, sure do feel for y'all up in Detroit, best wishes to you.

[provis99]

6. Accidental Shooting Claims Three Year Old's Life.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4e2_1262422416&c=1

Are you one of those people who thinks giving an anecdote proves guns are good?

[Katya Mullethov]

8. No

And that looks like cops + guns = bad again , (but it aint )
Did you read the link ?

[Tejas]

10. Are you one of those people that

"Are you one of those people who thinks giving an anecdote proves guns are good?"

consistently respond to the wrong thread? I could be wrong, but I believe the topic of the OP here that you responded to is about an incident involving homeowner vs a criminal. ;)

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PavePusher]

23. "How do we even know for sure the guy was a carjacker if he's dead"

Well, I'm glad you are going to be around to make these determinations for us when we are being attacked, it's so hard to tell if the person with a gun in my face has bad intentions.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tejas]

39. "homemade blueberry muffins"

You owe me a keyboard.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tejas]

35. Do you like to watch?

:rofl:

[aikoaiko]

37. Are those the imaginary gun bunnies people have to take medication to stop seeing?

:shrug:

[rd_kent]

80. How about making a coherent statement. WTF?

[aikoaiko]

81. Well, my comment appeared more coherent when Brain Damaged's post was still there.

:)

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aikoaiko]

102. Its not that I mind opposition, its that I prefer civil discouse. Your many mod deleted posts should

be telling your something.

I think its fair to comment on a newstory that doesn't have any obvious mistakes or contradictions. Its very possible the event happened as described.

I've stopped calling people gun wussies, gun grabbers, gun phobics, etc because such derogatory names only makes for bad discussions. I urge pro-rkba folks to do the same.

And I urge you to do the same and stop trying to antagonize the pro-rkba side. You might even get a little respect.

[DainBramaged]

114. What it tells me is that you folks don't like dissenting opinions

and getting respect from those of you who feel killing everyone is justified is laughable. As is proven time and again, those of you who celebrate the religion of the gun fail to wait till ALL the facts are in before jumping to judgement.

oh, and a few words that aren't happy new year are appropriate for you too.

[aikoaiko]

116. So you think moderators delete posts for merely being dissenting? LOL.

You couldn't be more wrong. Its not the message -- its the way you deliver it. It's really you. You get deleted.

edited a bit

[rd_kent]

118. You post another typical response and you wonder why you get no respect?

I don't think I have seen a single post from you that doesnt contain a phrase like "religion of the gun", "gun love" "gunnies" etc. EVER!

And then you have the cahones to turn around and say that no one likes dissenting opinions? Perhaps if you tried to state your position with a rational, unemotional and fact based argument, you would get taken seriously.

I am willing to start over and have a rational discussion with you if you are. Are you up for it? The ball is in your court.

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proteus_lives]

54. And a canard. Right on time.

The perfect thing for grabbers when they can't back their arguments.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[louis-t]

20. Uh, doesn't Texas lead the nation in executions?

Somebody's committing all those capital crimes. "They don't risk being shot" is one of those 'anecdotes'. "Criminals will be afraid to..." is another one.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tejas]

38. Keep that in mind on your next crime spree.

Ah, another "common sense wasn't my major" :rofl:
Sure skippy, dog forbid if ever there was a non gunowner found that believes in capital punishment.

[GreenStormCloud]

48. Executions are usually delayed by about twenty years.

Criminals don't think that far ahead. They live in the more immediate now. Even rapid executions would have little effect, except on the recidivism rate of the executed.