Ohio CCW passes Senate and House

[Fescue4u]

Although piece of shit Republican Taft will proably veto it, this is the best progress made on this in years

--

THE OHIO LEGISLATURE HAS PASSED CONCEALED CARRY REFORM


The Ohio Senate accepted the Conference Committee Report by a vote of 25-8.

The Ohio House accepted the Conference Committee Report by a vote of 69-27

The Bill now goes to the Governor's desk. The Governor has three
options that he can take part in:


1. He can veto the bill and it will return to both the House and Senate
where it they can override the vote.

2. He can sign the bill and it will become law 90 days from the day he
signs it

3. If the Governor absolutely does nothing and ten days (not including
Sundays) pass, the bill will become law 90 days later. This is
sometimes referred to as a pocket veto, but in reality the bill would
not be vetoed -- it would become law without the signature of the Governor.

[bluestateguy]

1. I support CCW laws

People who obey the law should have the right to apply for a permit to carry a firearm, after having taken a safety course and completing a background check. Given the right-wing threats of violence to liberals in certain parts of the country I am surprised more people on DU don't see it this way.

[CO Liberal]

3. I Don't

I fail to see how more guns on the street can make society better.

[MrBenchley]

4. And again, what citizens actually want is being

ignored by the gun fetishists, the corrupt gun industry, and the GOP...

"Polls consistently show more than 69% of Ohioans oppose carrying hidden loaded guns in public. "

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,567441,00.html

"A study conducted by the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence found that the nation's crime rate has fallen since 1992, but that the decrease has been greater in those states which do not permit carrying concealed weapons or which have strict CCW laws. For these states, the decrease has in violent crime has been 24.8%, while those states with lax CCW laws was 11.4%. Ohio's violent crime rate fell 17.2% between 1992 and 1997, the latest year for which data are available. A recent Ohio poll found that 69% of Ohioans oppose the carrying of concealed weapons."

http://www.episcopal-dso.org/pages/eppnoccw.htm

"If everyone carries a concealed gun, then everyone is a potential threat. Will the driver on the verge of road rage pull out his gun and shoot the person who cut in front of him? Will a child find and play with the gun his mom keeps in her purse if she sets it down to go find her misplaced keys? And just exactly what is the intent of the man at the restaurant counter who has a bulge under his coat a bit above waist level?
Should the restaurant owner come out and say, "Excuse me, but do you have a permit to carry that gun, or are you going to ask me to open the cash drawer?''
Except for prisons and a few other places named in the bill as off-limits to people carrying concealed weapons, the lawmakers intend to leave any restrictions on private property to its owners. This means that Ohio employers would be left with the job of posting and enforcing no-guns rules if they wished to maintain firearms-free workplaces.
Meanwhile, crime statistics released last month and last week show that the nation, Ohio and Columbus included, for nearly a decade has become a safer place to live with each passing year, despite increases in population. "

http://www.dispatch.com/news/editorials01/june01/743354.html

[Dolomite]

5. I think one of the big problems with surveys

is that the opinions of the people that take them apparently don’t extend beyond their kitchens. Their “feelings” aren’t important enough for them to go and back them up by the ardent and vitally important act of VOTING! Dems in Wisconsin loose seats all the time over gun issues. The behavior of the Democrats in the WI State Senate last year abruptly adjourning the Senate just as the Personal Protection Act was to come up for discussion (because they knew it would pass) is the biggest reason why the party is no longer in control in Madison.

Regarding surveys, there were several reporting nearly identical findings that were eagerly printed up by the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel and Madison papers in the days proceeding the successful CCW votes in our State’s legislature. As far as timing goes, these were good surveys – as far as who conducted them though, well…

As an example, the Wisconsin Council on Children and Families, which opposed the bill, released a survey they conducted of Wisconsin residents that found 62.5% of respondents said they generally oppose CCW. Now, a quick visit to the State’s Ethics website shows that they spent $36, 071 lobbying politicians in the State Capitol between January and June of this year. That’s 22 times more than the total expenditures for the National Rifle Association – Institute for Legislative Action lobbying effort ($1, 594 ). Yet still, despite of all of the free advertising handed out by the some of the more liberal news outlet in Wisconsin – this bill passed with healthy margins. This is because the people that these surveys “missed” actually participate in the process - AND THEY WANT THIS LAW TO PASS!

GOOD LUCK OHIO!!! You guys getting CCW this year can only help WI with their veto override struggle for a CCW law!

[MrBenchley]

9. Too too funny...

Looking at the ethics webiste, we notice right away that it reacks only lobbying expenses, NOT CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS...

http://ethics.state.wi.us/scripts/2003Session/legprops.asp?key=REGAB444

You'll note that the only groups supporting this bill are the NRA-ILA, something called Capitol Watch that's also opposed to gay rights and reproductive choice, and the WI Wildlife Federation (evidently one needs concealed weapons to sneak up on wily deer in Wisconsin.)

You'll also find that the WI Wildlife Federation chipped in another $6,196 to the party and that Capitol Watch kicked in $650.

The Wisconsin Council of Children and Families lobbied on a wide range of issues.

http://ethics.state.wi.us/scripts/2003Session/BandRLobbied.asp?PrinID=2630

Trying to pretend that their figure was concentrated on concealed carry is dishonest.

"this bill passed with healthy margins"
Not with voters...and not with a veto-proof majority.

[Dolomite]

10. But still...

Their surveys are seen by the voters for what they are - skewed and chock full of political agenda.

And I never said anywhere that the legislature's vote was "veto proof" (edited to add) in Wisconsin.

[MrBenchley]

11. Says who?

the NRA?

[Romulus]

13. ha ha ha

A study conducted by the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence found that the nation's crime rate has fallen since 1992, but that the decrease has been greater in those states which do not permit carrying concealed weapons or which have strict CCW laws. For these states, the decrease has in violent crime has been 24.8%, while those states with lax CCW laws was 11.4%.


Here's why that's meaningless:

(Hypothetically)
NYC/NJ/IL/CA violent crime rate is 100 per 100,000, so a decrease to 75 violent crimes per 100,000 is a "massive 24.8% decrease."

Meanwhile:

(hypothetically)
CT/VA/MI/PA's violent crime rate is 10 per 100,000, so a decrease to 9 per 100,000 is "only an 11.4% decrease."

Gee, I'll take the lower total crime rates area with CCW over bogus civil-rights-violating (i.e. Chicago, NYC, LA) police-state policing policies any day, thank you.

[MrBenchley]

16. Wow....

Well, that WAS utterly meaningless, just as advertised..

"I'll take the lower total crime rates area with CCW over bogus civil-rights-violating (i.e. Chicago, NYC, LA) police-state"
Sez it all.....New York City's a police state and Pat Robertson's Virginia a land of freedom.

AS sual, the RKBA crowd lives in fantasyland.

[Romulus]

18. police state is right

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/142617p-126326c.html

The Most Un-pop-ular Bust of All

Just when you think you've seen the silliest of summonses, here comes another bang-up ticket.
Police wrote Queens hospital worker George Pulido a summons for making unreasonable noise because his son Christopher's Winnie the Pooh balloon popped on the street.

"I couldn't believe it," Pulido, 29, of Queens Village, said last night. "It was just a normal-size party balloon and it was an accident. You'd make more noise closing the door of a police car."

Three cops were at the curb in a car and one of them called me over and said he was giving me a ticket," Pulido said.

He said he asked the cop, "Are you serious? You're gonna give me a ticket for balloon popping?"

"The cop gave me a hard look and asked me, 'Do you think popping a balloon is funny?'" Pulido recalled. "At that point I just said just give me the ticket...whatever."

When it was over, Pulido said, "My whole family was upset, especially Christopher because he thought the cops were going to take me to jail. How do you explain what happened to a kid when you don't understand it yourself?"

*snip*

A rash of silly summonses made headlines earlier this year for transgressions such as using multiple subway seats or sitting on a milk crate on the sidewalk. A pregnant woman was even ticketed for resting on subway steps. Police brass have consistently denied there is a ticket quota.



Any police officer pulling that kind of crap in the Commonwealth of VA would be fired in disgrace. But that's OK - feel free to stay in the racial-profiling-central Tri-loonie-state area. :evilgrin:

[MrBenchley]

19. Too frigging funnyn...

Yeah, a ticket....the oppression! the tyranny!

[1a2b3c]

23. You could also design a poll so that

70% of Ohioans want concealed carry to pass. The NRA might have one on there site if you look around.

[slackmaster]

14. A couple of comments on your position

I fail to see how more guns on the street can make society better.

1. Assumes a fact not in evidence - How can you be sure that liberalizing the rules for concealed-carry permits actually results in more guns "on the street"? Do you have any actual data to support that assumption?

2. The purpose of concealed-carry permits is to give individuals more options for defending themselves. The benefit to society comes in greater choice for citizens and legal residents. As long as that benefit is not offset by violent crimes committed by licensed people ABUSING their permitted weapons, what's it to you?

[Emoto]

17. Not really on the street

CCW permits allow people to carry (often under many severe restrictions, I must add) who have been screened and licensed. This is entirely different from "more guns on the street". It is no wonder that the anti-gun people use that term (I'm not really including you in that group, CO, but that is exactly the term they all use) because it is a phrase that creates the mistaken impression of uncontrolled and unfettered access to guns by every thug and ruffian out there. By creating that false impression, the anti-gunners turn people against the idea.

What you have instead, is a tiny % of citizens who bother to jump through all the legal hoops, have had safety training, etc. who MAY carry if they so choose. Very few of them choose to carry all the time, according to polls I have seen. These people tend to fall into several groups, those who must carry, like police or businessmen who need to carry large sums of cash or other valuables, women who do not wish to be victims, and firearms enthusiasts and/or competitive shooters. So, what you have is basically a very honest group of people. I don't have time to dig them up, but ther are plenty of news articles about states that went "shall issue" on CCW and the effects a year or two after. In every state where there are CCW permits, the permit holders are rarely involved in any crime. For example, if CO went out and got his permit, none of us here would fear him, because we know him to be a decent guy who is not interested in hurting anyone, and we know he would make responsible decisions.

Crooks and gang members (whose guns really are "on the street" in the worst way) do not bother with permits.

[Romulus]

12. too bad

your buddy Clark doesn't support CCW . . .

[alwynsw]

2. Good for Ohio!

Let's hope the veto never happens.

[Superfly]

6. Good for them...what's the tally now?

on shall issue states?

[CO Liberal]

7. You Mean the Death Toll?

:-)

[Superfly]

8. Yay!!!! Hyperbole! Can I have more?

It really lends a solid foundation to the discussion.

[slackmaster]

15. That's not what he meant, but while we're on the subject...

How many unnecessary or inappropriate deaths can you attribute to liberalized concealed carry laws?

[MrSandman]

24. Ohio draws bead on bill

similar to Michigan concealed-gun law
Crime drops, but both sides say no link is proven


COLUMBUS - Since the Michigan law that made it easier for citizens to carry concealed handguns took effect in July, 2001, the number of permit holders has nearly doubled and crime has dropped.

snip


In 1998, as legislators prepared to revise Michigan’s 71-year-old concealed-carry law so more citizens could get licenses, attorney James Neal wrote in the Lansing State Journal: "If concealed handguns are allowed to proliferate in Michigan, it will mean more violence, accidents, deaths, and injuries."

Leaders of the gun rights movement in Michigan assert that Mr. Neal and other critics were wrong, but they are reluctant to draw a correlation between more concealed-carry permits and less crime. There are too many variables, they say


http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031201/NEWS08/112010148

Another dire prediction unfulfilled

[juancarlos]

20. YESSS!

A great day for freedom. I'm sure our asswipe lunatic techniques will leave the streets red with blood. Just like Vermont, Alaska, Indiana, Pennsylvania, Virginia...

[MrSandman]

22. Florida,Pennsylvania

New Mexico, Arizona, New Hampshire, Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, Michigan Colorado, Idaho, both Carolinas...

[alwynsw]

25. See! We lunatic asswipes in the Bluegrass

do get a few things right!

(I cannot help but wonder what some on this board would think (or spin) if they knew the original nickname of the great Commonwealth of Kentucky.)

G'head ask! I may tell you if you promise to send me RemOil.

[juancarlos]

26. Do tell! Please...

If you don't I will pull out the asswipe lunatic techniques.

[Stilgar]

21. If no one changes thier vote, the override of a veto is done.

20 in senate needed / 25 received
58 in house needed / 69 received


3/5ths majority