Why I carry a gun

[Glassunion]

In my life I have been in one situation where not for the grace of God I would not be here today to write this.
It happened when I was working late nights in a bar. It was my first job, and I made very little money as a bus boy. Since I could not afford a car I would ride a borrowed 10 speed home every night. I never thought twice about my safety with the exception of remaining visible to cars, so I would wear one of those day-glow orange vests with the reflector stripes on them so cars could see me. The neighborhood was quite nice. One early morning at about 2:30am I was riding the 8 miles home on a stretch of country road. An SUV passed me coming down the road from in front of me, and then immediately slowed and turned around. I did not think twice about this. It was a small town and most everyone knew everyone else. I thought it was one of the patrons from the bar turning around to give me a lift home. I was wrong. The next thing I knew I was sideswiped by the truck into a drainage ditch. I hit the ground pretty hard and had the wind knocked out of me. Before I knew it there were three guys running towards me. I still had no idea that I was in trouble, I thought they were running to see if I was ok. I held up my hand and tried to tell them that I was ok. That is when one of them said “Yeah bi**h!” and punched me square in the nose. The other two immediately piled on and started kicking and punching me. I tried to fight back, but I could barely see past the tears in my eyes from the punch in the nose and I still could not breathe right from the fall. They continued to beat me, breaking my nose, two of my fingers and rupturing two disks in my back. It seemed to go on forever, all the while they were yelling at me telling me how bad they were going to f’ me up. They were taking turns, kicking and punching and smashing my head into the ground. It got to the point where I stopped fighting back. I was resigned to death. I knew that night I was going to die there in that ditch. Then as quick as it started, it stopped. A car was coming, and the three of them just up and ran back to their truck and sped away. To this day, I don’t know what they wanted or why they did what they did.
I spent a long cold night in that ditch, unable to move very much. Once it was light, I crawled up out of the ditch, and just laid there on the side of the road. A passing car saw me, and they went to a nearby house to call the police. Bob was the guy’s name. I never got to thank him.
I never shouted at the heavens because this happened. I never vowed revenge. In fact it no longer bothers me. I just promised myself that I would not ever let myself get into a situation where my only option is to lay down and die.
I doubt that anything like this will ever happen to me again. I’m sure that the odds are staggering against this happening twice.
Now I carry a gun. This gun does not make me invincible. This gun does not make me powerful. It is nothing more than a tool that I wear on my belt to be used if ever there is a need. I don’t go into dangerous places because I have this gun. I don’t act any different than when I don’t have it (rarely) than when I do. It does not bring me comfort. I carry it not because I am paranoid or afraid, but prepared. I am not paranoid or afraid of getting into a car accident, but I am prepared with car insurance and wear my seat belt. I am not paranoid or afraid of my house burning down, but I am prepared with smoke detectors and fire extinguishers. I am prepared, that is all, nothing more, nothing less.
I have a simple philosophy. There are no laws that can stop humans from being human. Humans have been violent towards each other since the dawn of time. Man will always wage war on other men. Men of power will always oppress men without. Our founding fathers knew this. That is why they amended the constitution to guarantee free speech and the right to protect it. The second amendment is not about the simple ability to carry a gun to hunt or protect ourselves from “bad guys” who want to rob us, but to defend righteous freedom from tyrannical abuse of power.
Sorry to go on so…

[OffWithTheirHeads]

1. I see that the "anti" folks are already here

I keep a gun in my truck because the idea that the police will protect me is an illusion as big as Katrina. I'm on my own. I know it and I do what I can to (as the Cub Scouts say), be prepared.

[Old Codger]

3. They never miss

A chance to denigrate those of us that believe in taking responsibility for our own protection, lots of DS's around here... I carry , always!

[cognoscere]

51. From what I remember of the oath and motto, I think

it's the Boy Scouts who are always prepared. But you are correct - unless people have a cop with them at all times, they must, essentially, be their own police force. Thus the saying,"I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy."

[Glassunion]

52. And sticky from the donuts

[TPaine7]

2. Welcome to DU

As far as I can tell, your position is rational, honorable, and well thought out. But what do I know? (I believe in all the rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights--by definition, I'm deluded.)

I am sure some of my betters will be along shortly to explain the truth to you:

1. You actually are paranoid
2. You are afraid
3. You are uncivilized
4. You have a small penis
5. You need to submit to your betters (as do I)
6. You are a misogynist
7. You are a racist
8. You are reactionary
9. You are a republican

I like you already.

[Glassunion]

63. Pop quiz?

1. I call it prepared... But the tin foil hat, yes paraniod.
2. Of spiders and clowns
3. But I make good money shooting Geico commercials
4. You've seen the website too? Damn!
5. That is why I always let my wife win
6. What!? I love women... In the kitchen.
7. Yes I am very intolerent to lactose.
8. A very slow and methodical one.
9. More of a Libritarian without all of the bat-shit crazy. Except for the tin-foil hats of course.

[DesertFlower]

4. great post. i don't go out

at night but if i did, i would carry one of my guns or a taser.

we have an elaborate security system, but if someone got in i would not hesitate to use the 38 i keep in my nightstand.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

5. .38 is not big enough. You need at least a 9mm. 45 ACP is better

Hollow point so the projectile does not go through and maybe injure someone else.

[pipoman]

28. Here come the gun site caliber wars...

but .38 spl especially w/+p is, in fact, a better defense round than 9mm..the advantage of a 9mm would only be that most 9mm guns hold more rounds than .38 spl guns, otoh most defensive shootings require only 1 or 2 shots to be fired.

[Euromutt]

42. Better to hit with a smaller caliber than to miss with a larger one

I tell people who ask me for advice the maxim I've adopted from other shooters: shoot the biggest caliber you're comfortable shooting. Personally, I don't do revolvers, because I'm a southpaw and there's precious few good revolvers suitable for left-handers, so I stick to auto-loaders even if it does require being prepared to deal with stoppages.

Yes, .38+P will do the job, as will the right 9mm Para (124 or 115-gr, +P if you and your guncan handle it). Larger calibers like .40 S&W, .357 SIG, .45 ACP and (God help us) 10mm are nice if you can handle them, but if you can't, there's no shame in sticking to a weapon and caliber with which you can made combat-accurate hits. Heck, .380 ACP will do, but the problem with guns chambered for .380 ACP is typically that they've been whittled down in size and weight to such an extent that most compact 9mm Paras will have less felt recoil.

[pipoman]

82. I agree with that.

My favorite semi carry gun is my 3914 S&W 9mm, a great gun, tack driver, slim, just a great carry gun. My favorite gun to carry though is a S&W 636 .38 spl +P, a great gun too, more difficult to master, mostly because of the recoil, I shoot it quite proficiently, but it isn't the 9mm in that respect. It is the absolute simplicity, reliability, and safety which I like about it. I am not a caliber warrior, just a caliber realist. I also have a Kimber Eclipse .45, a great gun with tremendous stopping power, minimal recoil..about the same as the 9 and way less than the .38, but a complete pain in the ass to cart around concealed. If I ever start carrying again, the .38 would be my go to.

The comment I completely disagree with is, ".38 is not big enough. You need at least a 9mm. 45 ACP is better". .38/.357 mag (.38 caliber) has to be the most common revolver caliber ever produced. It has effectively been used as a defense round for decades.

[spin]

57. The gun you have is far better than the gun you don't ...

Many experts say that .380 ACP and .38 special are the at the bottom line of the choices for self defense. I would agree with that if you are using modern ammo designed for self defense.

Still, it's necessary to realize that a handgun is not as instantly devastating as often portrayed in the movies. Shot placement is important and accuracy with a handgun rapidly goes downhill in the stress of a lethal encounter. Follow up shots are likely to be necessary to stop an attack.

Here's some good advice from the Sig Sauer Academy:

"At the Sig Sauer Academy we recommend that you carry the largest gun that you can comfortably conceal, and choose the largest caliber that you can consistently and quickly hit the target with."

George Harris ... Concealed Carry Magazine Volume 7 January 2010

[uppityperson]

6. Glad you survived, this is why I carry pepper spray.

I carry easily accessible pepper spray for protection and have no hesitation using it.I would not want to live if I were to kill someone trying to harm me. That is how I am, you are different and that is ok.

[GreenStormCloud]

30. What if the threat is upwind of you on a windy night? N/T

[uppityperson]

61. Then I get hurt. Can't prevent everything and I make my choices. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

64. You gave an honest answer.

That shows that you have made your choices with awareness. I can respect that.

[tburnsten]

96. I think you would change your mind if you actually were the victim of someone trying to kill you

[eqfan592]

7. Welcome to the DU!!

And thank you for sharing your story with us. I'm glad to hear you survived your encounter! :)

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. And how long are you going to live your life based on a decision made

when you were a scared kid?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. You are still scared of guns. When are you going to get over it?

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. I am not now, nor ever have been afraid of guns.

I've been mugged. I've been shot at, more than once. And I don't live in fear.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

13. MMMkay.

[proteus_lives]

23. You just live in judgment of others.

With authoritarian streak, like most grabbers.

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. What judgement?

He claims himself that his decision is based upon when he was mugged as a kid. When you're a kid, everything is black or white. Any decision, on any subject, made before 25 or so should be subject to reappraisal, to see how it stands up in maturity.

Getting more of the story, in subsequent posts, it turns out he decided fifteen years later to choose to carry. But that one incident is the only one cited, and he in fact says it was the only such incident. Therefore, I can only conclude that the original post is a smoke screen - he didn't decide to carry as a reaction to being attacked, something that happened 15 years earlier and not repeated, as he claimed in the OP. He is choosing to carry as a political statement. In a later post he says he only started carrying 15 years after the attack, after long consideration. Obviously, he was not responding to any perceived threat, as he had gotten along without incident for that 15 years - and if the choice was not made under threat, it was made to make a statement.

At least, I hope so. Otherwise, the attack has been festering for 15 years, and he has been obsessing on it to the point that when anything happens that might bring it to the fore he'll pull and shoot before knowing the facts. A sign of PTSD. That would make him way too unstable to be trusted with a weapon. So I hope it is merely a political statement, and not based on a 15 years past incident.

[GreenStormCloud]

67. There can be a number of reasons for the delay in his decision.

He hasn't said what state he lived in when he was attacked and when he moved to PA. It is entirely possible that he may have lived in a state that made it difficult to impossible to get a CCW.

He made not have had the excess disposable income. A CCW isn't cheap. Sure, the license itself, and the classes won't cost much. But there is the cost of the guns, joining a gun club to have access to an indoor range, ammo for practice (Shooting is a skill that has to be practiced.) and the changes in lifestyle.

Texas publishes online the demographics of people who apply for Concealed Handgun Licenses. Not too many people in their twenties apply. The application numbers start to pick up as people get older, peaking at age 60.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/demoreportsfy08.htm

You are doing a lot of armchair analysis on very little data, and filling in a lot of blank areas with your own projections.

On edit: Reading further into the thread, I see that my first guess was correct. Looks like I did a better job of filling in the blanks than you did.

[RaleighNCDUer]

69. You are talking about a delay in implementation, not a delay in deciding.

If the decision was made immediately after the attack but not acted on for 15 years, it is still a decision made while in trauma.

If the decision was made after 15 years, there are two possibilities - a reasoned decision made long after the trauma was over, or a decision made in the light of a trauma from which he never recovered.

Through all his posts it really sounds like he has long since recovered from the trauma which would indicate he is not living in fear - but that then stands in contrast with his using the traumatic experience as the 'reason' for carrying, as expressed in the OP.

There is a tension between the two sides of that equation which remains unresolved. But that's OK - people are complex and do things for a multitude of reasons, many of which are unrecognized by themselves, and then they come up with an explanation that seems to fit. It simply strikes me as odd that he would live without carrying for so many years without any problem, then suddenly decide he needs to carry despite the evidence of his own experience.

BTW, the increase in CC permits as people get older is very natural - 1) people who in younger days would trust to their physical capabilities to escape or fend off threats feel those capabilities slipping away; 2) older persons are likelier to have responsibilities for large amounts of cash, making them more likely targets for theft; 3) as people get older and start slowing down they spend more time at home watching TV than getting out in public, and stats have shows for years that the more TV you watch the more you think of the world as a dangerous place. There is nothing surprising in those numbers. Oh, and your own item 4) CCW permits, and the attendant costs, are expensive and finances tend to be more secure after you've been working for 30-40 years.

[GreenStormCloud]

70. It is hard to make a decision to do something if you don't have the means.

In a little while, probably after this post, I need to go to the hardware store. My decision will be to drive as it is about eight miles each way. (BTW - Yes, I will have my guns on me.) I am able to make that decision to drive, only because I have a car. If I didn't have a car, such a decision to drive would be meaningless. I would have to consider other options, one of which would be to not go to the hardware store.

He lived in a state that did not allow concealed carry. So he could not make a decision to legally carry. It would have been a null decision. It sounds like he made the decision as soon as it was an option.

[tburnsten]

98. Theft isn't a legitimate reason to shoot someone

And robbery is not the same as theft. Neither is an unprovoked attack.

[SteveM]

29. You really have a thing about fear -- in others:

I've been attacked as well, not as brutally as the OP's instance, and in any case, I resisted the attackers (2) enough that they took off. Do I live in fear? No. Do I take more precautions? Yes.

I really think you need to get some book-learnin' about fear and learn to delineate between fear, paranoia, caution, anxiety, etc., and quit using one or more of these terms as a club to wield against those with whom you disagree.

Caution is not evidence of continuous fear or paranoia; in fact, reasonably cautious actions may actually reduce fear.

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. You can take precautions without being prepared to deal death

to someone who threatens you.

The OP has done that - he states he has taken conflict resolution classes, and been trained in dealing with someone who is trying to take his weapon - both those are perfectly valid precautions even if not carrying, the first in reducing the chance of violence, the second in dealing with a physical assault.

As he makes no claim to be going into hazardous situations, and has had no repeat of the 15 years past incident, I can only believe he is being somewhat disingenuous when he claims to be carrying because of that incident. If he had started carrying within days, or months of the assault I'd buy it. But after 15 years? It would seem to me that he's been taking all the necessary precautions to avoid a repeat of the assault for 15 years, and quite successfully. Therefore, there is another reason for deciding to carry.

I'm curious about what it is.

[burrfoot]

53. Um....

So do you, in all honesty, believe that all it takes to avoid victimization is to avoid situations where you think you might become one?

How do we determine which situation that might be? Is it really reasonable that we should curtail normal activities so that we never place ourselves in situations in which we may be violently victimized?

I also think that you are making yourself look like an asshat by repeatedly indicating that you know more about the inner workings of Glasses mind than he does.

You think there's another reason? Fine. Just ask him what it is; the implications are unnecessary.

[RaleighNCDUer]

55. Read through the thread - I did ask him, and we are having a nice discussion

about it.

As for 'being a victim' you can be victimized without becoming a victim. Being a victim is a mindset, akin to paranoia. Being a victim is not simply suffering an attack, but always being watchful for the attack you know is coming. Only, of course, you cannot KNOW that it is coming.

Being a victim is being mugged at an ATM, and deciding because of it to never use an ATM again. A rational response is to consider "I've used ATMs at all times day and night, thousands of times before this and NOT been attacked" and to continue to use ATMs.

Anyone can be victimized. No one needs to be a victim.

[burrfoot]

56. I'll grant you that he's

responding nicely, I just think that your responses are pedantic and belittling. Regardless, I suppose it's not my place to step in to a discussion between the two of you, and the mods will probably delete these posts of mine for "calling you out" anyway :)

:toast:

[eqfan592]

59. But nobody said they were watching for an attack that the "know" is coming.

It's about watching for an attack that COULD be coming, because that's the reality of the world we live in. Taking steps to recognize potential threats (situational awareness), avoid such threats if possible, and counter such threats if necessary (the concealed firearm) is not a demonstration of a "victim" mindset or a "paranoid" mindset. Your entire argument appears based off of this one absolutely false premise, which is why I think you have need to reevaluate your argument.

[RaleighNCDUer]

60. And what, exactly, is the difference between the attack you

'know' is coming, and the attack you 'know could' come?

Do you walk around wearing a steel pot on your head? You know a meteorite could hit you at any time. Thousands enter the atmosphere every day, and several people are hit or have very near misses every year. Even greater likelihood, a bullet fired into the air by some yahoo could hit you. That is something that actually DOES happen on a regular basis - an infant was killed on New Year's by one. Shouldn't you wear a helmet, just in case?

[eqfan592]

66. Being a rational person capable of examining the probabilities of those situations...

...it becomes obvious that I'm much more likely to be mugged than to be hit by a meteorite or even be hit by a random bullet that was shot into the air by some moron. And situational awareness doesn't really help with either of those either (especially the bullet fired into the air). A helmet would also be of highly suspect value in even preventing a loss of life should I be struck directly with either of those objects, and would also be something of an inconvenience for many day to day activities (being a taller person, my head almost touches the roof of my car as it is, much less with a helmet on ;) ). Comparing these things with understanding the the possibility of being a victim of street crime and taking the (far less intrusive) steps of increasing your situational awareness and equipping yourself to deal with such a situation is, frankly, irrational.

[PavePusher]

73. The difference between a certainty and a possibility is vast...

yet you seem to be missing it completely.

Be careful of those trees while you search for the forest...

[GreenStormCloud]

68. Simply because you have not been attacked at an ATM is no guarantee that you won't be.

ATMs are known criminal hot spots, especially at night. So I take some extra precautions. I don't consider it paranoid, just being realistic with the situation.

[PavePusher]

37. Being prepared to avoid possible death...

now equates to "living in fear"?

Please, expound.

Or apologize.

[eqfan592]

10. That doesn't really make much sense at all.

You're basically making a snide comment because the OP made use of one of the most basic principles of learning. He was burned once, and he's now taken steps to try and avoid a similar fate in the future. It's the same as if somebody decides to always wear a helmet after a motorcycle accident where they hurt their head. Would you ask that person the same question you just asked the OP?

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. Not a snide comment at all. The incident happened when he was

very young - working his first job. He went through a severe trauma. He doesn't say how old he is now, but I would guess not a whole lot older, though of course i could be wrong on that. But he is claiming to make a potentially lifelong decision based on a traumatic experience as a teenager. Packing a gun is not a good substitute for actually dealing with the trauma. He may claim to not be paranoid, but IMO he is so deep in his reactivity that he can't even see it. He even admits that the likelihood of such a thing happening again is miniscule, yet he carries a gun anyway - a gun which, in the original incident, would have made NO difference, except it would have been stolen from him, and he would have likely been shot with it. As he described it, the attack was so fast, so brutal, that he had no time to react. Just as nearly ALL such attacks are.

Carrying because of that incident is NOT a rational decision made by an adult. It is a decision made by a scared kid - and the longer he stands by that decision, the longer he will continue to be that scared kid.

[eqfan592]

18. A few points.

One, do you have proof that "nearly ALL such" attacks are "so fast, so brutal" as to prevent someone from having any time to attack? Two, have you ever considered the impact of increased situational awareness as a form of early warning of a potential attack, as well as the total lack of situational awareness of most people playing into the reason why so many attacks appear to happen "so fast" as to have no possibility to react? Three, taking precautionary measures to aid in dealing with future potentially dangerous events based off of previous experience is a perfectly rational and adult thing to do. You would not say otherwise if you were speaking about somebody installing a smoke detector in their home after a house fire.

I would recommend doing further research on defense gun usage. www.guncite.com has great info on this, and other gun related topics.

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. Ask anybody who has been mugged. Muggers are cowards. They

don't announce themselves. 99 out of 100 times, the attack is sudden, unexpected, usually from behind. In this stated case, he was run off the road on his bike, and was attacked while still picking himself up from the crash. 'Situational awareness' is just another way of saying 'paranoid'. And the smoke alarm analogy is bogus, because you don't strap a smoke alarm to your belt, expecting fires to break out wherever you go.

[GreenStormCloud]

34. It is well known that muggers select people who appear like they aren't aware.

Yes, if you walk around oblivious to what is happening around you, the felon's attack will take you by surprise. If you look like you are staying aware of your surrounding, muggers will usually select someone else. Situational awareness is not paranoia, it is simply awareness. There is an additional advantage to situational awareness, you will see lots of enjoyable stuff that the unaware will miss.

[eqfan592]

35. As I suspected.

Anybody who thinks "situational awareness" is another way of saying "paranoid" doesn't understand the subject matter at hand (and this isn't a slam on YOU personally, as this sort of thing appears to be a fairly common misconception). And you'll also find that many attackers CAN be spotted before their attack with somebody practicing basic situational awareness. Take a look at the OP's story. He was totally aware of the attackers, but he made an assumption about their intent from the beginning, and that assumption lead to their getting the jump on him. This isn't a slam on the OP at all, mind you. It often takes an experience such as his for people to understand what "situational awareness" is and how it can be used effectively.

Situational awareness isn't about being "paranoid" and assuming that everybody is out to get you. It's about NOT assuming everybody around you has only the purest of intentions. It's about maintaining awareness of your surroundings as you go about your day. And this doesn't just pertain to concealed carry, but to many other aspects of life as well, such as driving. I have twice avoided being side swiped by a car running a red light because, in spite of the green light I had, I still took a look down both ways of the crossing street.

And there's nothing "bogus" about my smoke alarm analogy. A defensive measure is still a defensive measure, no matter if it's something you use only at home or if it's something you carry with you on a day to day basis. One aids in the defense against undetected fires at home, another aids in the defense against attackers. And besides, it wouldn't make sense to strap a smoke alarm on your hip as you go about. Chances are if a fire is close enough to you to produce smoke enough to set it off, you've detected the fire or smoke yourself already. The same can not be said for the concealed firearm.

You also failed to cite a source for your numbers as I asked you to in your previous post, and instead have come up with more seemingly made-up numbers on your own. You're making major assumptions about the capabilities of attackers to consistently "get the jump" on people, and your doing so using the assumption that their ability to do this rest entirely with the attackers and has little or nothing to do with the situational awareness of the victims (based off your apparent disdain for such things as "situational awareness"). Perhaps it should occur to you that attackers ARE smart, and they tend to specifically pick victims who are totally lacking in situational awareness. And trust me, it's not difficult to spot the difference between somebody who is aware and somebody who is not.

[OttavaKarhu]

89. So are you saying that cowardly muggings don't kill?

Or only brave ones do? And what would a non-cowardly mugging involve? Dennis Moore and his lupin express?

[GreenStormCloud]

33. The old "the bad guys will take the gun away and use it one you" canard.

We see a lot of that claim down here in the gungeon. If you will read his OP, his attackers had to stop the pickup, get out, then attack him. He had time to go for his gun, and be ready. When antis say that the gun will only be taken away, I think the anti is stating what he hopes will happen to a person carrying a gun for self-defense.

[RaleighNCDUer]

43. Read it again. The first clue that they were attacking him was when

he was punched in the face. If he had been carrying then, he'd have had his gun stolen, at the least.

[eqfan592]

46. Actually, if he had been more situationally aware....

...the first clue would have been when they tried to run him off the road with their truck. If, at that point, they still tried anything, he would likely have had more than enough time to defend himself.

[tburnsten]

97. Wrong. The first clue was them suddenly turning around

The second was when they used their truck to run him down, and the third was when they rushed him.

The ability to react between two and three was severely impaired by being hit by a truck, but it was still time he had available to react and realize that they weren't just going the wrong way or seeing if he wanted a ride, and that they didn't hit him on accident.

[PavePusher]

38. So, you are claiming that he is over-reacting to nearly being beaten to death.

Wow. How progressive of you. I guess he should just lie down and take it next time too.

You sicken me.

[Glassunion]

11. Forever.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. I thought as much. nt

[Glassunion]

15. Please explain...

If that situation were to happen to me again, how should I insure my safety? Or should I just roll over and die? Please keep in mind that I don't have your ninja like bullet-dodging reflexes.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. See my reply #16 above.

By your own description, if you'd had a gun then it would have made no difference, except that you might have wound up dead instead of beaten. That situation will NEVER happen to you again. You will never again be a teenager riding home from your first job in the middle of the night, and set upon by three yahoos for no discernable reason. You know that. OTOH, now that you carry, next time you see two or three strangers running toward you are you going to wait to see what they want, or just pull the gun? If you pull the gun, are you willing to kill? If you are not willing to kill, you should not be carrying. If you are willing to kill, do you think just pulling the gun will stop them? Or are you going to shoot, and then live with the fact that you have killed? When they are running toward you, will you shoot before knowing why they are running toward you? After all, if you wait to get punched in the face, you'll have waited too long. But what if they are not attacking, but running toward you to beg to borrow your phone so they can call an ambulance for someone?

You don't know. If you hesitate, you may get hurt. If you don't, you may hurt someone undeservedly.

If you are working a job that puts you at hazard, that is a reason to carry. One of the regulars here has talked repeatedly about his working with battered women and carrying because of the threat of their violent abusers. You may need to make late night bank deposits, that is a reason to carry.

But having suffered a beating as a kid is NOT a reason to carry. Every day that you carry, you are reinforcing your own status as victim by your very determination to not be one again.

[Glassunion]

19. Ok...

1. I was an adult when the attack took place. Young, yet still an adult. 18 to be exact.
2. As for being reactionary, I would have to strongly disagree. I did not start carrying a firearm until I was 33. Perhaps I am just slow to react but 15 years is pleanty of time to consider weighing the pros and cons of carrying a firearm.
3. I was raised on a farm with pleanty of lifetime exposure to firearms. However, I still insisted on obtaining training on concealed carry. I was taught retention techniques (preventing others from taking your firearm), peacefull conflict resolution, situational awareness, psycological preparedness, etc...
4. Overall, all I did was prepare myself for something I pray never happens.

We should all just agree to disagree. You and I will not see eye to eye on this, but one thing is for certain. Nothing you say will ever prevent me from carrying my firearm.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. Well, get a few more years on you and you'll understand that 18 IS a kid -

from my POV, 33 is a kid, too.

From here it looks like your carrying is not a 'self defense' move, but a political statement. If you got through your 20s without needing a weapon, you certainly don't need one now - from your mid-30s on, it's all down hill. It is certainly your right for whatever reason, but either the reason given is bullshit, or you've got some serious trust issues.

Paranoid, or politcal statement. Are you kidding us, or yourself?

EDIT:
It's 3AM. I'm off to bed. Have a good night.

[pipoman]

25. Yea, because we all know

that only teens and twenty somethings get victimized..never 30's, 40's, 50's, and certainly not 60's and 70's. And armchair psychologists making clinical diagnosis over the google machine based on a couple of paragraphs are self aggrandizing narcissists, imo.

[SteveM]

31. There's that crypto-psychology again -- used as a weapon ...

"from my POV, 33 is a kid, too."

Funny, that.

[PavePusher]

41. "If you got through your 20s without needing a weapon, you certainly don't need one now..."

Your precognition must work much better than mine. How nice for you.

Maybe you could tell us your secret?

[Glassunion]

48. Perhaps in your eyes I will never be a grown up

Just an idle curiosity, when does a kid become an adult? Is it by age, or is it by actions? Is it when they take responsibility for all of their actions? Is it when they realize that they are not alone in this world and have to take into consideration the feelings and needs of others? Is it when they stop caring for only themselves and start caring for others? Is it when they go out of their way to try and make a positive impact on the world, without the need for selfish recognition? Personally, I feel it is through their actions and how an individual carries themselves through life and how they react to everything that life throws at them.

As far as carrying not being a “self defense” move, but a political statement I would tend to disagree. I do not carry a firearm for pragmatic reasons. I carry concealed, so I am hardly making a statement at all. Hundreds of people pass me every day and do not know that I am armed. With the exception of sharing my story to a small number of anonymous people on the internet, I have never made it publicly known that I carry a firearm. If anyone reading this passed me on the street, you would have no idea who I am, and probably would not suspect that I am carrying a firearm. So I am hardly making a political statement at all.

Whoever said that I did not need a weapon in my 20’s? I did not live in an area where I was allowed to carry a firearm. I have however, always owned a firearm, I just never carried one. At the time I lived in a city where permits were issued very few and far between. If you were not on the police chief’s buddy list, you did not get the permit to carry. In fact when you went to the police station to obtain the forms for the permit, they never had them and one would have to wait several weeks before they got more in.  I have since moved to a “shall issue” state where I submitted myself to no less than 4 background checks including an FBI check in obtaining my permits and firearms.

Yes it is certainly my right. But it is also the right of everyone. So unless one goes out of their way to commit a prohibited offence, I have no doubt in my mind that I want them to carry if they so choose.

Since I “certainly don’t need one now”, as in your eyes I am just some kid who is somehow on their “way down hill”, and that my life is not worth defending anymore. That somehow I am a kid who is too old to bother with life.

No sir. My reason given is not bullshit and I do not have trust issues. You seem to be the one with trust issues. You apparently find me too immature to carry a firearm because you feel that I am paranoid or just wanting to make a political statement. There is another reason and I have given it. I never want to find myself cornered with no way to retreat or options to try and save my own life. You however do not trust that I am telling the truth or mature enough to be honest with myself.

[RaleighNCDUer]

54. What I'm saying is, teens through late twenties, early thirties is a violent

age. Once into your thirties the chances of you being in a fight, or being attacked by strangers, drops precipitously - thus, my statement that "it's all downhill" - like coasting on a bicycle.

You, yourself, said you did not need a weapon in your 20s. Unless, of course, you spent your 20s cowering in your apartment, never going out in fear for your life. From the way you say it, I suspect that is not the case. So, you carried on with your life and did not again face any situation where a weapon was needed - therefore, you did not need a weapon in your 20s. It is self obvious.

As for it being a political statement, there is nothing that says it has to be a public statement - though I'm certain that your close friends are aware of it, which means there is SOME public awareness. The political statement could be completely internal and be no less valid. The only immaturity I see is your claiming your desire to carry is rooted in the assault you suffered, when all empirical evidence shows that it is not the case - there is not a continuing threat, you don't involve yourself in dangerous situations, you have had no repeat incidents and there is absolutely no reason to believe, as you move past your youth, that there will be any. Therefore, there is no NEED for a weapon, only a WANT for a weapon. Therefore it is disingenuous to claim you need it for self defense, rather than you simply want to, choose to, exercise your 2nd amendment rights.

Are you that unsure of your stand that you feel you need to buttress it with a demonstrably unnecessary 'need'?

[Glassunion]

62. I still cannot agree with armchair psychology

When did I ever state that I did not need a weapon? I have always had firearms in my home; however I was not permitted to carry one until I moved to a state where law-abiding citizens can reasonably obtain a permit to carry one.  Yes I indeed carried on with my life and yes never found myself in a situation where a weapon was needed. But I feel that this was more due to luck and circumstance. Yes I had good luck in my 20’s. So what? Who is to say that nothing bad will happen to me in my 30’s, 40’s, etc…? And so what if I make it through my whole life, living it to its fullest and never find myself in a violent situation again? I will have wasted several hundred dollars on a firearm I never used in defense. I am ok with that expense. I will continue to carry on with my life and live it as I always had, only I will be more prepared.


I agree with your statement that I stand less of a chance of being in a fight, or attacked by strangers. And I now see where you were coming from as far as coasting downhill. Sorry for that misunderstanding. And in seeing that I am far less likely to be attacked, I still do not see how I have suddenly attained immunity to violence. Less likely yes… impossible no.


Having seen with my own eyes how some people in this world can react to those around them with no regard for human life or thought of consequence, I took steps to insure I don’t find myself in a situation with no way out and zero options on the table. I will disagree with you once more that my motives are political, that I do indeed SEE a NEED to carry a firearm for self defense. Do you have a way to guarantee my safety from attack for the rest of my life? I am open-minded; I am willing to try new things. That is the point of empirical science is it not? To observe, induce, deduct, test and evaluate. You know my observations and the hypothesis I have deduced from them. I have evaluated my options, I have researched them and thought long and hard on them. Perhaps you have other options or hypothesis that I could investigate?

I am hardly being disingenuous. My statements are quite sincere when I say that I carry for the sole purpose of defending my life when I have no option to retreat. And yes I am truly glad of the 2nd amendment affording me the right to keep and bear arms; however it is not for the sake of the amendment that I carry. It is because of it that I have the option to do so.


Finally to your last statement, I am quite sure of my stance. Not one person in the entire world can guarantee my safety and well being. I am the only one with the ability or willingness to try. That is why I exercise, eat right and have taken steps to protect my safety. Perhaps exercising and eating right are also facades that I unnecessarily put up in lieu of real needs to remain healthy?

[RaleighNCDUer]

71. Of course, nobody can guarantee anything.

But I have learned one thing. The world is not as dangerous as we are led to believe. The US, particularly, is not as dangerous as we are led to believe. Murder rates haven't been as low as this since the 50s.

And yet, on every TV channel, every day we have cop shows, CSI, real police on dashboard cams, all showing us how dangerous it is out there.

Many people, some on this thread, NEED to go armed as they work and live in hazardous situations. But for people who do not, carrying whenever they leave the house makes more sense than wearing a portable lightning rod every time you leave the house on the off chance that you will get struck by lightning. Justify it all you like, it just doesn't make sense.

BTW, I appreciate the reasonable discussion - I hope that you didn't take anything I said amiss, such as 'paranoid or political?' (where I thought the context made it clear I did not think you are paranoid, though other posters think I was saying just that). I've often been called a 'grabber' here, even though I have never suggested outlawing guns or confiscating legal weapons (though I certainly believe in strong regulation) and you have not stooped to any such rhetoric.

I know neither of us will change the others' mind, and I'm not trying to. I'm only trying to understand the mindset, which is only slightly more baffling to me than this country's worship of cars - actually, on second thought, they're a draw.

Thanks for a stimulating thread.

[eqfan592]

72. Not to butt in....

...but it seemed to me you were more interested in trying to define the mindset than to understand it. Several of us attempted to explain how it's possible to maintain situational awareness without being paranoid, but each time you failed to recognize the difference, though that's hardly the entirety of the discussion that's taken place here.

With that being said, I'm not sure if I've ever referred to you as a "grabber" in the past (I don't think I really use that word much honestly) but if I did I apologize.

EDIT: Also, where did a poster claim you were calling the OP paranoid? I know we spoke much on the subject, but only in the context of situational awareness from what I can see after glancing over the thread...

[Glassunion]

74. A thought on thoughts

For me to give a full account of why I think the way that I do would require a small novel. It would take you and me sitting down over a few beers and having hours of conversation. Here is a very elementary version of my thought process in order to keep it from going on too long. I may use pronouns such as “they, we and us” quite frequently however I am not making assumptions on how other people think. I am not a physiologist nor will I ever profess that I am educated in the subject. This is how I look at things, and am expressing just an element of my thought processes.

I call this metaphor “maps”. In life an action happens to us, it can be anything from someone yelling at us to a cup of coffee that we spill in our laps. It can be anything. Anyway, to that action we react. No two people react in the same way to the same action. From that action, whatever it is, there is inevitably a result. Let’s use for example that a bee flies into our car while we are driving on the interstate. Some of us may absolutely overreact and perhaps wreck the car trying to get away from the bee. Some of us may react more calmly and carefully pull over and let the bee fly out the window. Some of us may become aggressive towards the bee and try to kill it, while others may simply let the bee, well… be. Our reaction is driven from maps that we all have in our head.

If in my head, I have built a map that makes me absolutely afraid of bees; either because of an allergy to their sting or just a phobia, my reaction would be quite different than that of an individual who works with bees for a living. We use maps every day throughout the course of our lives. The danger is when we let others build maps for us. This is one of the places where racism and intolerance stem from. If I were raised by racists and my entire life my parents showed hate and fear for other races, would not my map lead me to believe that other races are inferior, to be hated and feared?

But what if I live my life knowing that my maps ALL stand the possibility of being inaccurate? Thus allowing me the opportunity to rewrite them? I think that this is the better route to take. I feel that it keeps me from giving into fear. Fear is not bad. It reminds us that we are alive. And in most cases, fear keeps us alive. But fear should not be given into. In my head I have a map that stepping in front of a moving train is bad. I have never stepped in front of a train, and I never will willingly do so. Am I afraid of stepping in front of a moving train? Your damn right I am. But I do not let that fear prevent me from walking across rail road tracks.

Allow me to give a few real world examples. Growing up my parents instilled in me that seatbelts are good and may save my life. So I always wore a seat belt. I went through 20 years of my life without ever having an accident. Then one day, while making a left turn someone plowed into me from behind. No warning, nothing but a loud crash and the next thing I knew my car was spinning and the force alone was so great that I could not hang on to the steering wheel. My body was trying its hardest to fly out the passenger side window; however I had on my seatbelt. I stayed in my seat, a few bruises and marks from the belt, but overall I was ok. That day I had observational evidence that seatbelts work. Does that mean that seatbelts always save lives? No that does not, however my map was affirmed and I continue to wear a seatbelt to this day. Am I afraid that I will be in another accident? Probably will, the odds are just there. Do I enjoy driving any less? No.

In the town I used to live in, there was an accident where the seatbelt actually played a major role in the death of a young adult. There was an accident in front of a Wal-Mart where a car was struck and a 16 year old was trapped in the car by his seatbelt. Though there was a gallant effort by the Wal-Mart employees many of whom suffered severe burns, they did not get the poor kid out of the car before he burned to death. Did this change my map about the good of seatbelts? Not really, but I do keep one of those tools that cut seatbelts and breaks windows in the car. Am I paranoid for that? Do I enjoy driving any less? No.

I went hiking one day, brought a lot of water, and a little bit of food. It was a popular hiking spot in the area, and I had a map that I got from the Ranger Station. I am very comfortable in the woods as I grew up with forest land in my back yard. I was out and about for about 6 hours when I became lost. I had completely lost the trail and had no idea where I was on the map. This had never happened to me before. I did however have some skills to rely on. I started a double-back method of walking in concentric circles that will usually lead one back to a trail. But it was not working fast enough. Eventually it became too dark and I was in danger of hurting myself by stumbling around in the dark. I decided to hunker down for the evening. I made a small shelter, and a small fire to keep me warm and comfortable. That day I had to reassess my map that I knew what I was doing in the wilderness. Yes I had some skills; however I did not have enough. So I reworked my map. Now when I go hiking I bring more tools with me: a compass, rain gear, and extra food. Does this make me paranoid? Does this lessen my enjoyment of the outdoors? No. Could I get lost again? Absolutely, the odds are there. Will I be more prepared? Yes.

So I grow up thinking that people are good. I was blessed with the opportunity to have good friends growing up and going to small schools and living in a small town. We had no crime in our area. There was of course a mandatory gun law in the town. Our city Kennesaw GA (in case you are wondering) was much smaller than it is today. I wish I still lived there, however that is not the hand I have been dealt. But overall during that time of living there (till I was 14), I never experienced violence. I have moved around a few times since with nothing more violent than the few scraps you get into as a teenager in high school. Then that one night I experienced the most violent thing that ever happened to me. So I reworked my map. Not all people are bad, but there are bad people. Does this make me paranoid? Do I enjoy life any less? No. Could I ever be attacked again? Sure, I go out in public every day. The odds are there, no matter how slim.

I am simply more aware now than I was then about what the world is like. There are tens of millions of good people in this world, but it only takes one bad one to take everything away from you. I am not afraid of people, nor am I in constant fear of my life. But I am aware that random violence does exist, and I feel that I would be better off prepared for it, than to hope for the best and pray nothing bad ever happens again.

I work in a quiet area. One day there was a bank robbery 2 miles from my office. An FBI agent was shot and killed when agents attempted to break up the robbery. http://newark.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/2009/nk052809.htm . During the shootout with the FBI 2 of the armed robbers were able to flee the scene. At our office, we locked the doors and no one was permitted into the building. As we left for the day, we all went to our cars in large groups. Were we paranoid? No. We relied on our maps telling us that armed bank robbers are dangerous desperate people, and that we would be more formidable in a large group. Were we paranoid for installing televisions where we could keep an eye on the news in case something similar happens again? No. we could all happily go through life never seeing a local event that we need to be concerned with. And hey, we got a TV in the cafeteria. Score!

[PavePusher]

75. If there was an award for Excellence in Posting...

You just won it.

:applause:

[eqfan592]

76. Agreed!

VERY well said!!!!!!!

[Glassunion]

77. Thanks... I'm just trying to keep them under 10,000 words or less :)

It is so damn hard to type on the iPhone.

[eqfan592]

78. Wait, you typed that all out on an iPhone!?!

You deserve a metal just for doing THAT alone!!!!! :D

[Glassunion]

83. It is not that hard.

I was in a boring conference. I have no idea what the speaker talked about. But I did give him a round of applause when he was done.

[burrfoot]

84. Fuckin' A man; Fuckin' A.

:yourock:

[RaleighNCDUer]

85. Very well put. Thank you.

For my map, I once, some 30 years ago, got into a thing with a crazy ex-con biker. This guy was big, and scary, with biceps he size of my thighs. It involved a woman who had been a casual girlfriend of mine before she met him. Making a long story short, this guy was looking for me, I learned through a friend. I was pretty desperately poor at the time and could not purchase a gun - and I knew there was no way I could stand against him one on one - so I arranged to borrow a shotgun from a co-worker. The next day, after work, the co-worker calls me over to his locker and says he has the shotgun.

And I realized that this woman was not worth killing anyone over. Sure, I was scared of the guy, but when it came right down to it, if he kicked down my door and I shot him, I could not live with myself. Even if it was legitimate self defense. Because I would be killing him over my fear of what he MIGHT do.

So I told the coworker I changed my mind and went home. Three or four months later the crazy guy did meet me on the street, he punched me in the face and went away, and I've never seen him since. And I've killed no one.

My fear of what might happen, what could happen, was far worse than what did happen. And that has been the case with every violent incident I've been involved in. Could it have been worse? Of course. Might he have killed me? Easily. But even then, HE would be the killer, not me.

I am not opposed to the concept of self defense - I just don't think it really applies to me. If I was living the kind of, ah, careless life while I was married and had kids that I lived in my bachelor years in my 20s, I very well might have decided to keep a weapon for defense of the family, not for me. I'd calmed down by then, less drinking and no drugs and it never became an issue. So now, even with my married years also behind me, I have no inclination to return to the insanity of my 20s.

I know that even now I am a highly reactive person - one reason why I won't take a chance at keeping a weapon around. I know myself well enough that I might do in the heat of the moment what I refused to do on careful consideration. I am an atheist, and don't believe in forgiveness and redemption - I've only got one go around and I am going to do my best to do it right.

That's my map, and I've seen no reason to change it for 30 years. It works for me.

[GreenStormCloud]

86. That's your choice, and I can respect that.

Most of the gunnies here on the forum will also respect your choice. But it is YOUR choice for you. I, and the rest of the gunnies, have decided that we believe the more moral choice is to resist violence with greater violence. The difference is that our violence is controlled and unleased only in defense. We don't seek out innocent victims. We attempt to avoid situations where violence is likely, but if trouble come to us, we will not lie down for it.

We ask only that you respect our right to choose effective self-defense for ourselves.

Yes, it does mean that we will bring the guns to bear before we are killed. . We will do it while our own deaths are a serious threat, and not yet a reality. After all, it is somewhat difficult to defend oneself after one is dead. We do not feel that we are required to die hoping that our attacker will let us live.

Ronald Goldman made a choice similar to yours. He, and Nicole, died.

[PavePusher]

90. I understand and support your choice...

even though I do not agree with it.

I don't know the intentions of criminals; if they communicate a desire to do me harm, I must take that at face value. A punch to the face can kill; I am under no moral obligation to accept pain, suffering or risk death in order to protect someone who wishes to unlawfully harm me.

[Glassunion]

92. A bit of a contiuation of my journey...

Wow! I must say that there has been some incredible conversation on this little topic of why I considered carrying a firearm. Thank you everyone for the warm welcome to the forum and I look forward to having some more stimulating conversation with all of you.

One thing that I noticed I had omitted from my OP, was my current state of mind. That was a glaring omission from the original thought and for that I am sorry. I just want to let it be known that I am ok and do not suffer from any ill or long term effects. I came to terms with what happened a very long time ago. I realize that there are several things in life that we have no control over and how we deal with them is what makes us the people that we are.

That night was a situation where I had very little control over what had happened to me. I cannot live in fear over what might happen or never happen to me again. There are many things in life that we have zero control over. I realized that a long time ago…

I remember sitting in the hospital alone that night, mad over what had happened. But my anger was not directed at those 3 guys, it was at myself. I asked myself many questions; how could I have been so stupid? Why didn’t I see it coming? Why didn’t I run away? I later came to realize that I did nothing wrong. Yes I could have reacted differently, but what has passed, has passed. I am also left to think what if they did not find me that night? Would this, or worse had happened to someone else. Did I get whatever they needed to do out of their system? I am ok with that.

The staff at the hospital were all very nice, and treated me like I was their only patient. They were continually checking up on me and a couple of the nurses hung out and chatted with me a bit. Bonus was that they were cute.

What I found myself doing was actually trying to cheer them up. One of my self-defenses is to make light of bad situations. I feel that laughter is a wonderful medicine. If you can laugh at it, then you are ok. The police officer who took the report, the ambulance drivers and tech, the doctors and nurses all seemed to have the same reaction to what happened. They were angry. So I was constantly making jokes, and doing things to lighten the mood. I even smiled for my x-rays.

The staff at the hospital gave me all kinds of literature and a schedule for a support group for people who had suffered similarly. “They” (whoever they are) say that one should not keep things bottled up and should share with others and talk out things that might build into an emotional issue. Now I am not saying that group counseling is bad, but it is not for everyone. I do agree that it is indeed good to share however the environment of that counseling group was not right for me. I was quite uncomfortable, and it felt forced. I think perhaps it was the group coordinator that was the issue. She tried to make me feel as though I was letting the group down if I did not share or show up. I found that friends and a relative were better avenues for me take. My uncle is an emergency room psychiatrist and is well versed in trauma. I felt that the one on one he gave was much better than I could receive in a group.

Overall, I think that I am a better person for the experience. It has been said in another post, but yes, I have learned from my mistakes and I am much wiser for the experience. That is how we learn yes? We make a mistake and then grow from it. That is what wisdom is, a culmination of mistakes, experiences, wins and losses that make us grow. How we deal with these things in life is what makes us men and women of character.

I did think long and hard before deciding to carry a firearm. I also spoke with friends, family and others before making my decision. There were many things that I struggled with before I made that choice and it was not made lightly. Everyone is different and the level of how one would react to a situation might be completely different from someone else. For me and my wife we know how we would react to different situations. We are in agreement on how we would handle a robbery differently from an outright attack. Personally we feel that there is nothing in her purse or my wallet that is worth a human life. I can always make more money, and get my credit cards canceled. There are other confusing situations that people might not be prepared for and I think that one should take the time to know how they should react.

In one of the classes that my wife and I took, there was a scenario that we were presented with. There was a woman on the ground screaming with a man holding her down punching her. My initial reaction was to subdue and detain the man until the police arrived. According to my instructor I did this portion of the exercise very well. However my mistake was that in this particular scenario both people should have been detained until the police showed up. No one wants to see someone being held down and punched, and I immediately assumed that the woman was in trouble. What I found after the exercise was that the woman had kidnapped the man’s child from the play ground and he was fighting her to get his child back. By my decision, she would have gotten away with his child, another mistake that I can add to my list.

Carrying a firearm is an awesome responsibility and the decision to carry one should not be taken lightly at all. One should absolutely give all of the variables equal weight in determining if they should carry. Me personally, I spoke with a few police officers, some members of my family, a few friends and a chaplain. I received about a 50/50 response of those for and against it. I also found myself subjected to several questions that I did not have the answers to that I needed to find out.

After all is said and done, there remains the fact that carrying a firearm is not for everyone and the decision to carry one is neither the correct of incorrect answer. The reason to carry one should not be made out of fear, anger, indecision, intimidation, etc… On the other hand, the decision not to carry should not be born from those same emotions. If you are 100% honest with yourself, then you will make the correct decision, whatever that may be.

To Paper Roses… Sorry to go on so. I know I promised to keep em shorter.

Not typed on my iPhone…

[PavePusher]

94. Damn, I wish we could rec individual posts.

You are a very eloquent person, I'm glad you're here.

[Glassunion]

95. Thanks

I read a lot.

My employees hate getting email from me. They usually know that they are in for a long read. I guess that I am a bit old school when it comes to communications. If it is quick I will call them. If not, I just try to keep my emails to them under a thousand words.

[tburnsten]

99. If he kicked in your door and you shot him. it wouldn't be killing him over a woman

If he kicked in your door and you didn't have a weapon, and he killed you, that would be killing over a woman.

Both are killing, both are homicide, one is an inexcusable murder, one is absolutely justified self-defense. If you saw him on the street and shot him, that would be murder. If you saw him on the street charging you with a tire iron and shot him, that would be a reasonable, non-murder killing.

[GreenStormCloud]

36. Great crystal ball that you have.

You can absolutely, positively, guarantee that he will never be set upon by three yahoos for now reason. You can guarantee that he will never ride a bicycle on a public road again? I am a senior citizen, sometimes ride a bike, always carefully and correctly, and have sometimes been harrased by passing vehicles.

Regarding men running towards you. There is a legal protocol for exactly that. Yell for them to stay away, if they continue to rush you, draw the gun, if they continue to rush a drawn gun - shoot. Rushing a drawn gun IS an attack and may be responded to with deadly force.

The beating that he took at 18 made him realize that the world is not unicorns, butterlflys, and rainbows in the mist. The world really is a dangerous place, and one must be prepared to meet that danger if it ever comes to you. It can happen at any age.

[GreenStormCloud]

32. Adults get attacked too, not just kids. N/T

[spin]

58. You learn lessons from life ...

He was lucky to live. He learned to carry a firearm for self defense. He doesn't feel invincible because he carries a firearm, he doesn't go looking for trouble.

I'd say that his decision was well thought out.

But then, his decision is his and not yours. If you decide that carrying a firearm is unnecessary then while I might personally disagree, I will also say that it is your right to make that decision. Not everyone has the mindset or the ability to use a firearm for self defense.

[gorfle]

87. Would it matter if he had been beat up as an adult?

.

[mmarsh]

22. My position on Guns has changed...

You know, I used to be fairly anti-gun, but thinking about it now I am thinking about carrying one now too. The fact is one cannot be paranoid if one has already been the victim a a physical assault. I have been assaulted 3 times each time for no reason, like the OP 2 of the 3 times it was by more than 3 attackers. What I have learned is that keeping your nose clean doesnt mean some evil POS is not going to break it just for kicks. And each time it happened to me there was not a cop in sight. The police are not there to be your personal bodyguard.

I am posted in France right now, but when I move back to the US, I plan on carrying a concealed license because I refuse to be a victim anymore.

[spin]

65. Sounds like a rational decision to me. (n/t)

[proteus_lives]

24. Great post! Welcome to DU!

:hi:

You're going to catch a lot of flak for being RKBA liberal on this site. Because for whatever reasons, most DUers consider the right to bear arms to the only right not worth defending. Stay strong.

Your last paragraph is spot-on. It matches up with the reasons I carry a firearm.

[taurus145]

26. I carry for one very simple reason

In my former employment, I received a number of death threats because of the work I did. I'm certain that some were serious and some were not.

I once had 4 brothers and the father of an inmate show up at my front door at 6:00 A.M. threatening me and my family. I took and take the threat from that inmate very seriously.

[Paper Roses]

27. This old granny agrees with you. These times require that we

do our best to keep safe. If I knew where to buy it, I'd carry pepper spray. You'd never have heard me say that a few years ago but the world is so different.

Welcome to DU, your input is welcome.
PS, Do this old lady a favor and cut your posts with a few paragraphs. Hard on these old eyes.

[GreenStormCloud]

39. Pepper spray can be ordered over the internet.

Amazon.com carries a good selection.

[eqfan592]

40. Yep yep :)

And failing that, some sporting goods stores carry it, like Cabelas and Gander Mountain. At the Cabelas near me, it's behind the check out register for the firearms counter.

[TPaine7]

49. Buy it online:

http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/less-lethal/

[Dappleganger]

50. I agree...

And you can find pepper spray in just about any gun store.

I own a gun and have a ccw because I love my family and we live in Jacksonville.

'nuff said.

[oneshooter]

79. Hey Paper Roses, my mother, all of 78 yrs old

just last year re qualified for her CCL here in Texas. Shot a 89% with a 3" S&W m60! She also keeps a 20ga pump w/19"bbl at home. If she can do it ,why can't you? Pepper spray is problematic, sometimes it works, often not. If you want the good stuff get a bear repellent, or a 38 and some training and practice.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[Glassunion]

81. Thank you...

I will do my best to keep my posts down to a more normal level. I'm glad you enjoyed it. You can check out your local gun clubs, they do have practical self defense courses geared towards a more mature demographic. You may find a solution there that fits your needs. Pepper spray may not be the best solution. I don't know for sure, but don't let a salesperson make the choice for you.

Thank you again...

[burrfoot]

47. Welcome, and thanks for sharing your story.

I think you'll find that most of us (at least here in the gungeon ;) ) won't question your decision to carry- you have ample reason, probably more than many.

When Raleigh's crystal ball is available for purchase by the general public, maybe he'll have a point.

Aside from the validity of your reason and any interest you may have in discussing the morality of carry/self defense with a firearm, rest easy in the knowledge that you don't actually need to justify it- you've met the legal requirements and have been legally approved to do so. No reason required.


Also welcome to mmarsh!!




:toast:

[oneshooter]

80. To me it boils down to a few simple answers

When I carry? None of your business.

Why I carry? Again, none of your business.

Quite simple.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[OttavaKarhu]

88. Congratulations on emerging empowered.

Your story is very familiar to me, and I've seen many people come out of such experiences broken and terrified.

I don't read your words as either of those things, but instead as owning both the experience and your resolution of NEVER AGAIN.

You wrote that to this day you don't know why they did this to you.

My suggestion: there was no reason. That's the hard thing to believe in such an attack. We want reasons. We want to wrap our Knowing around it to defend against the soul-shredding experience of violence.

If we listen to many liberal Democrats, there's this myth that we can understand why people are brutal to other people. It isn't always the case; in my experience, it's the exception, and any "reason" we project onto a situation is generally for our own peace of mind. Violence is a Mystery, in the ancient sense of the word, and I'm of the view that that's why many people indulge in it--as the only secular Mystery they intuitively know.

Defending against that sort of thing can be approached reason-ably. But violence that victimizes as you describe is about power. From my vantage, I'd say you are correct in the power-equalization technology you chose...but that's probably because I have chosen similarly.

I find it hard to read some of the responses to your thread, which don't seem to respond to you at all. In any case, hope you'll pull up a chair here at the DU gun club. I am very sad that you had this experience. I am very glad that you have found some places to stand, and that you can tell the story--that you are bigger, stronger, wiser, and deeper than what those bully coward weaklings did to you with physical force.

My grief with so many of my liberal friends is that they assume that such ugliness always happens to someone else. The truth is, they don't really want to think about it at all, and when reminded, they indulge in a fantasy that disarming the law abiding would somehow end violence, victimization, and vulnerability.

[Tim01]

91. .410 derringer. Very similar reasons.

After I had a bottle thrown at me on one occasion, and rednecks tried to swipe me with their truck on another occasion. I decided people were not as nice as I had first thought they were. I painted over everything reflective, and got far off the road when cars came by.
I ran and biked out in the country to stay in shape, lots of times at night. I have scars from the first time I tried to to bike then run with a Browning Hi Power, blistered my right hip. That is when I went to the .410 derringer.

It is not safe out in the country at night. People can be very nasty.

My friend a pizza delivery guy gut beaten by some football jocks for fun.

[burrfoot]

93. I'm with you on this one-

I love being outdoors, in the country, at night, as long as I'm reasonably certain there's no one I don't know around. When you bring in the element of a stranger(s), however; that beautiful, secluded, quiet location can change into "far away from civilization/authority where no one can help you," really quickly.

If anything, the further out you get the more prepared you need to be. Chances of a negative encounter may drop, but if an encounter does go bad there is proportionally less help available as well. You need to be able to help yourself (or someone else) in any situation that may arise.

I remember a New Years Eve back when I lived in upstate NY. My folks were divorced and I was spending it with my mother, and we were out walking (there's an old children's book, Walk When the Moon is Full, that we took to heart throughout my childhood :) ). Country road, on a bridge across the West Canada Creek, we're on the road and see a couple of headlights coming toward us. We move off to the side (walkway on the left side of the bridge) and the truck speeds up, shoots forward and crosses the other lane, right at us. We both froze (I wish it was a braver story, where we dove out of the way); and I swear the truck came within a foot of us, then drove off into the night.

I was fourteen and, obviously, I didn't have the choice to carry. What could I have done if they'd stopped the car and gotten out? Now, at 30, I do have the choice, and I don't intend to be that helpless again.

I know this is a pretty mild story- nothing even came close to happening, other than some assholes scaring us- and it's not the only reason that I carry; but it's an example of why I agree with the poster above that too many people think that violence will never touch them, just because it is statistically unlikely to touch them.

The reality, of course, is that however good and law abiding and careful and polite and caring a person you are; it has absolutely NO BEARING on what someone else chooses to do to you.*

Anyone can say, and have a good chance of being correct, that "Mr. Random American" won't be attacked violently. That's just math. No one, however, can tell you whether you're one of the numbers in the "safe" column, or one of the numbers in the "victim" column.

So, which one will I be, a lucky one or an attacked one? :shrug:

I'll hope for the former, and be reasonably prepared for the latter.


* if your personal "being careful" includes situational awareness, it actually might have a bearing on whether a criminal picks you. I'm pretty certain that not much else will, though.