UK: Woman Warned By Police After Waving Kitchen Knife At Intruders.

[GreenStormCloud]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1242040/Myleene-Klass-warned-police-waving-illegal-kitchen-knife-intruders-garden.html

Myleene Klass warned by police after waving 'illegal' kitchen knife at intruders in her garden

Myleene Klass has been warned by police that waving a knife at youths who had broken into her garden is illegal.

The 31-year-old presenter had been home alone with two-year-old daughter Ava when she saw the teenagers attempting to break into her garden shed through her kitchen window.

Myleene, who had been 'utterly terrified' according to her spokesperson, immediately called the police but quickly grabbed a kitchen knife to wave at the intruders in an attempt to scare them away.

However, when police arrived at the property in Potters Bar, Hertfordshire, they told Myleene that she should not have used the knife because it is still classed as an 'offensive weapon', even if you use it in your own home.

(Continued at link)

The details are a bit strange. It sound like they were in her residence enroute to her garden shed.

I wonder what they think of our Castle Doctrine laws.

This is ultimately the destination that the anti-gun crowd would take us to.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[east texas lib]

3. Paranoid? Unlikely.

Two people were stabbed to death on GSC's block less than two months ago. And the hardcore antis will not rest until their beloved dream of a gun free Utopia is a reality. Then they can get to work banning those deadly steak knives, meat forks and toothpicks. Realist would be a more apt description.

[Mojorabbit]

28. Even more deadly

is the ice pick

[east texas lib]

33. You might find this humorous...

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x276826

[Mojorabbit]

38. Thanks, I did find it humorous

I keep a cork on the tip of mine so I don't continually puncture myself while rummaging through the kitchen drawer but I do think it would be a exceptionally deadly weapon in close quarters.

[east texas lib]

42. I agree. I'm sure they've been used offensively and defensively many, many times. (nt)

[dalaigh lllama]

2. That's an awkward sentence

"...she saw the teenagers attempting to break into her garden shed through her kitchen window."

But I believe it indicates she observed them while looking thru her kitchen window, not that they were attempting to enter her shed via the kitchen window.

[GreenStormCloud]

4. That does make more sense. Thanks. N/T

[Warpy]

5. She'd have been crazy not to remind the louts that cooks have knives

because they could have decided she'd be their next project once they knew they'd been spotted.

The cops are being silly. Had she tried to confront them outside, she might have been in the wrong---and gotten killed for her effort. However, showing them a large knife through a kitchen window was appropriate.

The OP's concluding sentence is even sillier.

[GreenStormCloud]

7. My last sentence is silly? Please remember...

that at one time, ordinary citizens in UK could own guns, and defend themselves in their homes. Now, guns are banned and this lady was warned by the police that she can't use a kitchen knife to defend herself in her own home. Our anti-gun crowd frequently posts holding the UK up as an example to be emulated. They post that we should be like the UK. I am silly for taking the anti-gun people to mean what they actually say?

[Warpy]

8. Long guns within certain classifications are legal.

Hand guns are not.

Please learn what the laws really are before you pop off in full paranoia.

[GreenStormCloud]

10. Handguns are the best self-defense weapon, especially indoors.

Shotguns are long and unwieldy indoors, and have a limited number of shot immediately available. Frequently only one or two shots. And their laws on self-defense are much more restrictive than ours. They require a much closer force ratio. We don't require any.

Further, remember that at one time, any UK citizen could own a handgun, much like the US now. But the anti-gun crowd there was able to take over, and now we see where they are.

[SteveM]

12. So what are the "certain classifications" for long guns? How could she get one? nt

[oneshooter]

16. U K law, What you need to obtain a FAC.

http://www.marplerifleandpistolclub.org.uk/general/gunlaw.htm


Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[SteveM]

17. So, having a gun for self-defense would fall from without this law? nt

[oneshooter]

21. Self defence is NOT a viable reason for a FAC. n/t

[tburnsten]

30. Extremely rarely, yes

and for very few uses, of which protection of your life is not one of them.

There was a guy who was arrested and charged with murder when someone mugged him with a knife and in the ensuing struggle the mugger stabbed himself and died. Completely ridiculous.

[taurus145]

35. Have you looked at the UK's laws on long gun storage?

In order to keep one at your residence legally stored, you'd be dead half an hour before you could get to a rifle or shotgun.

[OttavaKarhu]

40. Yeah, first gun ownership goes...

...then before long crime skyrockets and grammar goes out the window.

:)

[Walk away]

6. Imagine if she lived in this country...there could be dead teenagers...

in her yard.

They could be yours. Kids get into trouble sometimes but they shouldn't end up dead.

[GreenStormCloud]

9. I boldfaced the part about not using a knife IN HER HOME.

I will agree that she shouldn't shoot someone over garden tools. However, if they break into the house, she shouldn't have to ask for proof-of-age before defending herself.

[slackmaster]

11. In this country she would have waved a gun at them

Which would have probably scared them off.

[Walk away]

13. I can't imagine how sick you have to be to think waving a gun at kids in your yard is OK

This forum is so creepy and paranoid. I wish it didn't appear on the "latest" list. If I could block it all I would.

[slackmaster]

14. Where exactly did I say it was OK?

:crazy:

The woman is apparently a hot-head. She handled the situation poorly. Waving a knife at the kids was neither necessary nor appropriate, and in the UK it may even have been illegal.

[taurus145]

19. Hothead? Maybe.

But she's definitely H O T!

Good thing the article had pictures. I can't read.

[Pavulon]

26. Great call there..Agree

[GreenStormCloud]

48. If they were teen-age boys she could have waved that pair of 38s...

and froze them in their tracks. She would have fried their brains and left their tongues hanging out, drooling.

Recent studies have actually demonstrated that in the presence of sexually provocative, beautiful, women, men lose some of their intelligence.

[slackmaster]

43. That's a fact, and it looks like Walk away walked away

:rofl:

[taurus145]

45. You expected maybe something different?

n/t

[Walk away]

49. I had to leave...I have a life. But judging from the replies...

It really wasn't worth reading them. I didn't realize who I was dealing with. Guns must equal sadly puerile. It all starts to make sense now.

[Pavulon]

15. Breaking into a persons home in my state automatically

justifies the use of deadly force. Breaking into a persons home is not teenage misbehavior. Not smashing mailboxes or smoking weed and rolling trees. Being 19 does not give you extra rights to break and enter.

[Dappleganger]

23. +1

Last month there were some teens terrorizing three neighborhoods (ours included) by breaking into cars, throwing rocks at windows, kicking in front doors, ringing doorbells and running away, etc. Finally one homeowner (don't know who) scared them off by chasing them out of his back yard while holding his shotgun. The police officer said that homeowners were calling and asking the police to catch them quickly before one of them got killed since most people in our area have firearms for both hunting and protection. The kids were caught, they were ages 15 up through 19 and definitely knew better. I have no idea what the hell their parents were doing during this time when they were gone every evening causing trouble, but they should be held accountable too (at least the parents to the younger teens).

They did steal some things from dh's car which he had left unlocked, the police found the gps which was produced by one of the parents; they also kicked our door in one occasion when one of ours hadn't closed it all the way (but they definitely kick it because two of mine saw the kids and ID'd them). We and many others called the cops because not only did they need to get picked up we were afraid that they would get shot. The officer did tell us that kicking in a door constitutes B&E and you could defend yourself.

At least they're not bothering anyone any longer but it was only because they got caught. We were all quite frustrated because the cops came so late each time we called and when people are frustrated and feel threatened, shit happens. BTW, I am ccw and never pulled my weapon but they were very clearly about to cross that line where no one wants to go but will if we have to.

[Mojorabbit]

29. Thank you. nt

[eqfan592]

18. Wow, do you view the world through some bull-shit colored glasses or something?

Seriously, do you honestly think people around here just want to go around waving guns at kids? Are you really totally incapable of seeing the difference between spotting and discouraging kids who are currently in the act of committing a crime from continuing what they are doing and just some kids that happen to be "in your yard?"

[Pavulon]

25. Poor sentence structure

" when she saw the teenagers attempting to break into her garden shed through her kitchen window." I saw break into through the window.

[taurus145]

20. I've waved guns at kids in my yard many times

It was easier than yelling over the lawnmower or Walkman to get my son to stop mowing and go hunting or shooting.

No. I didn't say I pointed it at him. Think rifle in hand above head, waving for attention. IT worked far better than an empty hand.

[GreenStormCloud]

22. As usual, an anti-gun person reduces the crime.

The teens were breaking and entering. That is a lot different from just being in the yard. B&E isn't just teenage prank activity, it is a serious crime.

[tburnsten]

32. "kids"? Since when do young adults count as "kids"?

pretty sure they were never caught, as is so typical in these cases, so who knows how old they actually were.


I can't imagine how sick you have to be to think that a group of young men breaking into your home are the same as kids playing outside who wandered into your yard.

[east texas lib]

34. Then why come here?

Hang out in the Lounge where it's "safe" (relatively speaking, of course).;-)

[proteus_lives]

24. Yeah, she should have just let them break into her house.

:eyes:

[tburnsten]

31. What makes you think she would just shoot them?

Did she rush outside and stab them non-fatally? Don't be a disrespectful jackass Walk away.

[Euromutt]

36. If she lived in this country, they might not have broken in in the first place

It's practically an axiom among criminologists that American burglars don't break in when the occupants are home. Typically, something in the order of 75% of the time taken to commit a burglary is spent making sure nobody's home. The reason is fairly obvious: in the United States, residents may be armed. Moreover, you don't get into more trouble for resisting a crime than you do for committing it, which seems to be the all too common situation in the UK.

[pipoman]

37. Where does this belief end?

How about if they are breaking into your house with only you and your 2 year old home? Poor kids, just wanna have fun? In the UK if someone breaks into your house, say a 250# man, you cannot use anymore force than is necessary, nor can you use a superior weapon than the intruder. If you do defend yourself or your family you will almost certainly be arrested and required to then defend yourself legally. This is the result of a few decades of politically correct nuttery..

[Callisto32]

27. No weapon is purely anything.

Like so many other things, it is based on context. Saying something is an "offensive" weapon based upon some government classification smacks of not wanting to have to think on your own.

[Euromutt]

39. A very astute observation

You can see the "mission creep" in a term like "offensive weapon." Originally, the term was dependent on context, an covered items that have a legitimate purpose in the home or workplace, but less so in a public thoroughfare, and could be (and were being) used for offensive purposes (e.g. by gangs of rival soccer hooligans). We're talking about things like chef's knives, carpet knives, hammers, etc. Not too many people need to slice vegetables or cut linoleum in the street.

So that's reasonable to some extent; certain items in certain places have an obvious potential to be used as "offensive weapons," without the justifying factor that there is a need for their legitimate intended purpose in that place.

But when an item is where it's supposed to be, like a chef's knife in a kitchen, that justifying factor is present. Law enforcement can't reasonably presume intent to use an item as an offensive weapon when the item is in a place where it has a legitimate purpose. But somehow--almost inevitably--something that is classed as a potential "offensive weapon" in a particular context morphs into an "offensive weapon" regardless of context. This is why in a democracy, you don't let the executive branch of government make the rules. Unfortunately, in the UK, the legislature and the executive are headed by the same group of people.

[OttavaKarhu]

41. I feel about "offensive weapon" as I do about "hate crime."

What is an "inoffensive" weapon, anyway? Or a "nonoffensive" weapon?

Sorry, but defensive weapon isn't the same.

Just more Newspeak in any event. Noncriminal free women, men, and others should not have to justify to any government their choice to be skilled with and carry weapons so long as they're not breaking a social contract.

Of course the point of this Newspeak and these laws is to make everyone a criminal.

[tburnsten]

46. So how do people legally get "offensive weapons" safely home then?

Or is it up to the discretion of the police?

[Euromutt]

47. You're a gun owner, right?

If so, I assume you understand the difference between "carrying" and "transporting."

And let's get it clear I'm not defending the law in Britain: I'm pointing out how a restriction that starts off being reasonable to some extent can (and invariably does) all too readily suffer creep, and ere long, it's become so utterly ludicrous that you can get in trouble for having a kitchen knife in your kitchen.

I lived in the UK for a few years in the 1970s, and as much as I enjoyed it back then, these days you couldn't pay me to live there again. I increasingly feel the same way about my native country of the Netherlands, where steady erosion of civil liberties has taken place just in the past ten years. For almost sixty years, legislation requiring citizens to produce ID at the request of a police officer was invariably shot down with the utterance: "That's what the Germans did during the occupation." Well, since 2005, the cops can pretty much demand you produce ID with the flimsiest pretext. And since 2002, the police can carry out "preventive frisking"--for "preventive," read "without reasonable suspicion"--in areas considered by the public prosecutor to present an elevated risk of violent crime. It makes me want to weep. And I increasingly have the feeling whenever I visit that I'm in some authoritarian hell hole and not the place I grew up in. I'm pretty certain you couldn't get me to move back there, either.

Which reminds me, I should check whether my ACLU membership is paid up for this year.

[TheWraith]

44. God the UK is fucked up.

They're so paranoid that you can't take a walk through the park without being spied on, but you're not allowed to defend yourself in your own home. :eyes: