Two killed, three wounded in Kennesaw Georgia shooting.

[sharesunited]

http://www.ajc.com/news/cobb/penske-former-employee-behind-273347.html

The City of Kennesaw actually passed an ordinance requiring every head of household to maintain a firearm with ammunition.

So we can see how much gun love is part of the local culture.

What were the thoughts of the shooting victims as bullets entered their bodies?

"I'm departing much too soon, but thank goodness I lived in a free country?"

[hlthe2b]

1. My first thought when I saw this occurred in Kennesaw...

When are we going to learn....?

[eqfan592]

2. Learn what, exactly? (nt)

[sharesunited]

3. Like an abused spouse who keeps going back for more? Never?

It's still worth it, some will say.

[eqfan592]

4. Because some of us understand that one must look at both positive...

..and negative aspects of any subject. You ignore defensive gun usage, shares. You ignore the massive pile of evidence against your position, and instead rely entirely on anecdotal evidence. Sorry, but that's not the behavior of a rational person.

[sharesunited]

7. If you're saying the dead were not converted at the moment of their deaths

you might be right.

I can see that it is an abiding love, probably even unto death.

[rd_kent]

65. You do realize that you make no sense whatsoever, right?

[slackmaster]

6. Read the article

The shooting didn't happen in Kennesaw.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

27. When are we going to learn what?

[slackmaster]

5. Nice try, but "near Kennesaw", the location stated in the article, is not Kennesaw

How about changing your subject line to something a little more honest, sharesunited?

Unrec for deceptive subject line.

[sharesunited]

8. Not sure what the city limits have to do with the values of the local culture.

I mentioned the city ordinance only to convey the flavor of the society.

[slackmaster]

10. The difference is that the Kennesaw ordinance would not apply at the location of the shooting

Kind of a basic issue, there, don't you think?

[hlthe2b]

11. I lived there when Kennesaw ordinance was passed.

It is arguably more symbolic than anything, but meant to underscore the local obsession with guns. That obsession extends well beyond the town.

[slackmaster]

12. And Kennesaw still has one of the lowest murder rates of any municipality in the USA

How do you reconcile that with what you characterize as an "obsession" with guns?

[hlthe2b]

13. How ridiculous... All small southern towns have low murder rates

Most small towns in general, have low murder rates.

Geebus...

Slack, I'm not out to take your gun or change gun laws. Until you've experienced that part of the South, I dare say you don't know gun obsession, however and they DO drink and shoot.

[slackmaster]

14. OK

I dare say you don't know gun obsession, however and they DO drink and shoot.

So what?

[eqfan592]

15. of course it's ridiculous.....

...but that doesn't stop people like sharesunited from saying that guns are the primary cause of violence and death. Or people like Don C. from saying that without guns our murder rate would instantly drop. They do not acknowledge the actual root causes of violent crimes unless it suits their purpose (such as pointing them out when people bring up areas with high gun ownership and low crime).

[hlthe2b]

17. I agree the root cause of violence is not the guns...

but, given the root causes have not been addressed, the ubiquitous presence of guns (and social acceptance of drinking and driving with the rifle in the window holder and the handgun in the glove box, so prevalent in the South) adds to the problem

[eqfan592]

18. I will agree that those activities really don't go well together.

But do they actually make up for a significant portion of the crime rate? Even in the south? I'm asking this as an honest question, as I honestly don't know.

But my biggest reason for participating in discussions such as these is so that Dems stop spending political capital on gun control measures that do nothing to prevent crime and in the end make it more difficult for us to take on the task of addressing those root causes. Mind you I'm not against gun control measures as a whole. I think we have a lot of reasonable measures in place now, as well as some unreasonable ones. But some of the ideas that come out of the mouths of certain dems are just jaw-droppingly stupid at times, and what's worse is that the majority of Americans see that, and it has the affect of harming the credibility of the entire progressive movement in a lot of ways.

Sorry for the mini-rant there. lol

[hlthe2b]

22. I can not answer your first question, but there is data on hunting

accidents that shows it is a siginficant problem in the South--not just gun accidents, mind you, but also falling out of deer stands after getting liquored up... The "good ole boy" mentality prevents the problem from being addressed, IMO In addition, NRA has rabidly fought attempts by CDC to study more systematically the correlates and predictors of gun-involved injuries and fatalities. If they had not, we would have better data--either way.

Gun (and alcohol) education is what I advocate--as well as anger management and anti-bullying programs in schools...Strict interventions for domestic violence and yes, I'd like to restrict guns from an individual who has been convicted of domestic violence--as a start...

[eqfan592]

24. Fair enough.

I don't see anything you mention there being totally irrational. ;)

Seriously though, I'm all in favor of better education about guns AND alcohol in schools, as well as domestic violence intervention.

I'm a bit more hesitant on the last point, only because some DV convictions don't always include an actual act of violence. But I wouldn't dismiss the idea out of hand either.

[SteveM]

68. Hunting accidents have been on a significant decline...

in the United States. When analyzing such incidents as falling out of deer stands, heart attacks, falls, etc., do you always attribute these to drinking? Do you take into account the growth in use of deer stands and climbers (as opposed to death rates measured, say, 40 years ago)?

No one is stopping anyone from studying "the correlates and predictors of gun-involved injuries and fatalities;" and they don't need the CDC as a clearing house for such studies. You will note the executive summary of a study by the CDC analyzing "gun interventionist" strategies, which found little in these strategies (and the studies which support them) to conclude there is a relationship between policy and outcome.

The use of a public health model by some scientists (a few in the CDC) has failed.

I would hate the expenditure of public moneys based on your stereotype of drunken hunters. Your comments ring a little of former NY governor Mario Cuomo: "hunters who drink beer, don't vote and lie to their wives about where they were all weekend." But Cuomo, at least, manned up later by apologizing to the NRA: "it is unintelligent and unfair" to "disparage any large group." TIME mag, May 27, 1985.

Gun education and alcohol education, sure. This should include the proper and safe use of firearms, preferably hands-on.

[PavePusher]

71. I will not calmly give up my Civil Rights due to someone elses stupidity.

That's a horrible basis for sweeping laws.

[taurus145]

74. Until crystal meth invaded our area

Both we and our neighbors rarely locked a door on a car or house.

Guns have been here forever - lots of guns. Crystal meth is a relatively new thing.

[taurus145]

73. Easy with the generalizarions

I drink and I shoot. I never do both in the same day. I have many friends and relatives between the gulf and the Ohio River that practice the same safety rule.

Your comment is about as inflammatory and incorrect as it gets.

[taurus145]

78. Nope. Wrong. Incorrect.

meant to underscore the local obsession with guns

It was passed as a poke in collective eye of Morton's Grove, IL and that town's total gun ban. The fact that said ban is unconstitutional didn't stop them from passing the ordinance, so the fact that Kennesaw's ordinance is also likely unconstitutional makes it something of a wash.

[Katya Mullethov]

16. Apparently they are in violation of this mythical ordinance

And their lack of ordnance is both glaring and appalling . Fish in a proverbial barrel .

[Donnachaidh]

20. "flavor of the society" -- wtf?

Uhh, the ordinance does NOT work outside the actual city of Kennesaw. Do you LIVE here?

[proteus_lives]

30. So you admit you're a liar?

You're with lying in the headline?

[hlthe2b]

32. Be fair... The media has been reporting it as Kennesaw all day.

As,I used to live there, I know the area and that it is not. But, be fair to the poster. Calling them a "liar" is just inappropriate and rude.

[proteus_lives]

35. The headline says "in Kennesaw"

Is it in Kennesaw?

He's lying to make a point.

[hlthe2b]

37. I suspect it was pointed out after the editing period...

The person obviously does not live there, so why not give them a little benefit of the doubt...:shrug:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. Because she doesn't deserve it.

[hlthe2b]

41. See post #40

[proteus_lives]

44. +1

[hlthe2b]

40. You owe the poster an apology: Even Atlanta news is reporting Kennesaw

Accused Kennesaw Shooter Identified
Suspect Identified As Jesse James Warren, 60

POSTED: 12:55 pm EST January 12, 2010
UPDATED: 6:49 pm EST January 12, 2010
COBB COUNTY, Ga. -- CBS Atlanta has learned the name of the ex-worker accused of killing two people and injuring several others in a shooting at a Kennesaw business.

The man was identified as Jesse James Warren, 60, of Temple, Ga. Further information on the suspect was not immediately available.

Ofc. Joe Hernandez said Warren was dressed in all camouflage and walked into the Penske truck rental business at 3011 Barrett Lakes Blvd. and began firing a handgun. Police said the victims were all shot in the head. Police said Warren had a confrontation in the parking lot before entering the building.

"He wasn't here for very long and it wasn't long before he was taken into custody," Hernandez said. Warren was later taken to the Cobb County Adult Detention Center.

A Penske spokesperson, Randolph Ryerson, told CBS Atlanta News that the victims were either employees or contractors who had some connection with Penske. All five victims were men, police said early Tuesday evening.

One of the casualties, a man who was not immediately identified, died at Wellstar Kennestone Hospital, Hernandez said. The other died at the scene.

The hospital told CBS Atlanta late Tuesday afternoon that the facility received four of the victims. In addition to the one victim who died, officials said the other three male victims were in critical condition.

Hernandez said Warren was arrested less than a mile from the scene, on McCullough Parkway at West Duncan Road.

Police said Tuesday afternoon that they weren't sure how many shots Warren had allegedly fired.

A man who witnessed the arrest said the suspect looked "out of his mind" and "all drugged up."

"The cops walked up on both sides of the truck, he opened the door and they threw him on the ground. He pretty much just gave up," Michael Robertson told The Associated Press.

Penske said it was a very traumatic day.

"We want to extend our deepest concerns and sympathies for the victims of today's shootings," Ryerson said.

The building is also the company's regional headquarters, CBS Atlanta News learned.

Check back often with CBSAtlanta.com for updates.
Copyright 2010 by cbsatlanta.com. The Associated Press contributed to this report. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/news/22217190/detail.html

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

45. The OP linked to a story that said near Kennesaw.

[hlthe2b]

46. I provided an Atlanta news link that says it was a Kennesaw

business..

(edited for typo)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

49. Again the OP's own link said near Atlanta. Your link is pointless to what she knew.

[proteus_lives]

50. That doesn't mean anything.

SU knew the truth but chose to lie anyway.

[proteus_lives]

47. No I don't

The error (lie) was pointed out before the the editing period was up.

The change was not made.

You should stop sticking up for authoritarian liars.

[hlthe2b]

48. It was NOT an error. Do the HONORABLE thing.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

51. So you know the OP read the story you linked to before starting this thread?

[hlthe2b]

54. I know they may have heard a radio news bit that said Kennesaw

because I did all day.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

56. That would mean they didn't read the story they linked to.

[hlthe2b]

57. You are just being silly now... Good night, dave

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

58. Good strategy run away.

[hlthe2b]

59. You are arguing just to avoid admitting being wrong...

I really don't wish to enable that, as I've always thought better of you than that. Again, good night.

[proteus_lives]

62. You're tap-dancing to avoid admitting you're wrong.

It's sad and not the mark of a DUer.

You prefer lies to honesty.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

63. I'm not wrong about anything. I just know that you have no idea what the OP intended.

[taurus145]

75. DON'T MAKE ME STOP THIS CAR!!! n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

64. You think they heard it on the news in Illinois?

[proteus_lives]

52. I am.

I'm helping expose a liar.

Own up to your own words and stop defending a lie.

[hlthe2b]

55. Funny, I thought law-abiding gun owners were honorable...

sad...

[proteus_lives]

61. Ha!

Your defending a lie because of politics.

You have no honor. You're a sad little woman.

[eqfan592]

60. Guy's, go easy on her.

She's new and hasn't been exposed to SU as we have, so she's far more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. She also seems to be fairly rational on the issue, and we need as many people like that to hang around here as we can get. ;)

[SteveM]

69. Yeah, the lying is usually done by the MSM. When it comes to guns...

Those guys rarely miss an opportunity to enthusiastically spread a gun-control message. If it weren't for MSM, the gun-control "movement" would have been enclaved decades ago.

[rd_kent]

67. What it has to do with is YOUR dishonesty on this subject. But you knew that.

[taurus145]

72. Do you have a clue as to why the ordinance was passed?

C'mon. Do you?

Let's see if you can answer this honestly.

[hlthe2b]

9. I know EXACTLY where that is, as I used to live near by...

It is not far from Kennesaw...at all. Not to mention the mentality is endemic to Cobb County--Newt's old District (and neighboring Cherokee County)

[rd_kent]

66. You're asking for honesty from sharesunited? Puh-LEASE! You will NEVER get honesty from him.

[Donnachaidh]

19. uhh, nice try -- it's closer to Marietta -- NOT Kennesaw

I know because I live in Kennesaw. The area where that happened is nowhere NEAR the city of Kennesaw.

[hlthe2b]

23. I used to live near Town Center., worked in Marietta and had a ..

god child living in Kennesaw. The area in question is not THAT far from Kennesaw.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

26. Not that far from Kennesaw means the "law" in discussion wouldn't apply doesn't it?

[hlthe2b]

31. Dave, perhaps you haven't read through the thread... No one is

saying that it does.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. Someone sure seemed to earlier.

My first thought when I saw this occurred in Kennesaw...
When are we going to learn....?


What exactly did you think we needed to learn?

[hlthe2b]

36. I guess you'd have to have lived in the area to know what I am

referring to. Responsible gun owners are there, of course, but mixing guns and alcohol is not uncommon and not widely unaccepted in my experience... The stress of this economy is not helping either. I owe my having made it through grad school to my male friends keeping the freezer full of venison, so I am not anti-gun nor overly critical of the culture. But there are problems and the ubiquitous presence of guns is not always helpful.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

38. I have lived in the South for well over 30 years including several different places in Georgia.

I don't hear about many accidental shootings for an area with so much gun culture mixed with a liberal dose of alcohol.

[hlthe2b]

42. Everything is relative and perhaps temporal trends are changing

I certainly hope so...

[PavePusher]

77. The problems you mentioned are not unique to the American South.

They occur all over the U.S.

However, the statistics available via the DoJ and CDC indicate that they are decreasing, while number of firearms in private ownership appears to be increasing.

[Donnachaidh]

28. it's still NOT the city of Kennesaw

And if you actually did live here you would KNOW that the ordinance ONLY applies within city limits.

[hlthe2b]

29. that is not the point...

the attitudes about guns are not limited to Kennesaw, as several others have pointed out to you several times. I do not need to STILL live thereto know THAT.

Really, you seem on a hair trigger with this thread. No one is trying to push your buttons.

[hlthe2b]

43. Donnachaidh... you need to see post #40

Atlanta news is reporting the business as a KENNESAW business.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. Does the City of Kennesaw have it's own police department?

[rrneck]

21. Book suggestion.

http://www.amazon.com/Going-Postal-Rebellion-Workplaces-Columbine/dp/1932360824/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263334464&sr=8-2

Product Description
An eye-opening look at the phenomenon of school and workplace shootings in America, Going Postal explores the rage-murder phenomenon that has plagued — and baffled — America for the last three decades, and offers some provocative answers to the oft-asked question, "Why?" By juxtaposing the historical place of rage in America with the social climate that has existed since the 1980s — when Reaganomics began to widen the gap between executive and average-worker earnings — the author crafts a convincing argument that these schoolyard and office massacres can be seen as modern-day slave rebellions. He presents many fascinating and unexpected cases in detail. Like slave rebellions, these massacres are doomed, gory, sometimes even inadvertently comic, and grossly misunderstood. Taking up where Bowling for Columbine left off, this book seeks to set these murders in their proper context and thereby reveal their meaning.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41hkib45FaL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

25. Let's compare Kennesaw with Chicago.

[proteus_lives]

33. No point as usual.

Blaming tools because you're too scared/lazy to blame the person pulling the trigger.

Millions own firearms and never misuse them. That's why your arguments and logic will always be fatally flawed.

[Glassunion]

70. Ok, hang on a second...

I lived in Kennesaw for 15 years. I was there during a few of the population explosions that it had. When we first moved there, the population of Kennesaw was 1081. Today it is over 30,000. Yes there was an “unenforced” rule that all head of households had to have a firearm. When I say that the rule was “unenforced” I mean that it was just that. There was really nothing in place to make sure that people had a firearm in their home. The police never went door to door asking for proof of purchase or anything similar for that matter. So if you did not want one, you didn’t get one. IMHO it kept the criminals guessing.

As far as seeing a culture of “gun love”, I just did not see it at all in the 15 years that I lived there. Did people have guns? Yes. But, I now live in the more “progressive” north east of the country, and guess what? People have guns here too. I don’t surround myself with “gun lovers”; in fact most people I know don’t own one. But the “values of the local culture” here is much the same.

Perhaps it was the public schools that I went to, the friends that I hung out with, or the activities that I did after school that I was not subjected to this elusive “local obsession with guns” culture. Where were you that you saw this and I did not?

What I saw when I lived there was a culture of a very educated, polite and courteous people. Kennesaw has for quite some time, been immune to unemployment and recession. In fact if you look at home value history it does not correlate to the national averages. Sure it dipped, however nowhere near as much as the national average. Why is that you suppose? On the county level, why is it that the population is growing at a factor of 2 when compared to the population growth in the state? Why do people want to live there? I hard speak of drinking, driving and guns being a prevalent plague in the area, but again it the numbers do not add up. Why is it that Cobb County experiences half of the drunken driving fatalities that the rest of the state is plagued with?

On another note, just for fun… From the CDC Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System Survey Questionnaires from 2002 to 2004 for Cobb County: People get more exercise than the national average. Less people smoke than the national average. More residents drank than the nation average. More residents visited the dentist compared to the national average. They have an average weight for both males and females. Here is the kicker… 26.4% of residents keep firearms in their homes, this is below national average!!! Overall their score was a 3.9 out of 5. “Significantly better than average”

Perhaps this evil culture that you speak of is not so bad at all. They have a community of people well educated, well paid and enjoy a community with an incredibly low crime rate. I heard use of an excuse that the because of a city being located in the south, it is by proxy subject to a crime rate lower than average.  Look at the averages for Kennesaw and compare it to the averages for the entire state. You will see that it is well below the average of the state. Why do you think that is? Why would crime be lower just because of latitude on a map? Does good southern cooking somehow make one immune to crime?

What are they doing right that the rest of us can’t?

[taurus145]

76. If anyone is curious

Kennesaw adopted its ordinance requiring ownership as a poke in the eye directed at Morton's Grove, IL after MG banned firearms.

Of course, the drop in crime had absolutely nothing to do with the ordinance. :sarcasm:

Kennesaw adopted this ordinance in 1982 in response to an anti-gun ordinance adopted by Morton Grove, Illinois, banning all firearms in that city. The media gave so much attention to Morton Grove that the city council in Kennesaw wanted to make the opposite type of media splash. That is what happened.

What happened in Kennesaw because of this ordinance caused twenty five other cities across America to adopt ordinances like the Kennesaw. What no one expected to happen, because of this ordinance, was for the crime rate to almost stop. Take burglary crimes, in 1981 Kennesaw had 11 burglaries per 1,000 residents, by 1998 they only had .243 burglaries per 1,000 residents. Kennesaw's Historical Society president Robert Jones said
in 1998 that the overall crime rate in Kennesaw had dropped by 89% in that city, while the crime rate had only dropped by 10% in the rest of Georgia. I found similar crime rate drops in all the cities who have adopted the Kennesaw ordinance.

http://www.2ampd.net/Articles/Cook/Public_Safety_Ordinance.htm

[derby378]

79. A pertinent question at this point...

Didn't this shooting take place within a gun-free "school safety zone?"

:shrug: