Gun settles family grievance near Gainesville; deputy sheriff also slain.

[sharesunited]

And so on, and so on.

Such A Tragedy.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20100115/ARTICLES/1151005/1118?Title=Update-FDLE-probe-of-Cross-City-shoot-out-under-way-

[TPaine7]

1. I agree, it was a tragedy.

Any other guns that, on their own initiative, get up and shoot people should be destroyed. Production of such guns should be illegal and manufacturers should be put out of business.

[GreenStormCloud]

2. Prior criminal record?

The article doesn't say, but I would bet my last bullet that the shooter has one.

[slackmaster]

6. That's a pretty safe bet, GSC

Not just a criminal record, but one bad enough to prohibit John Kalisz from possessing a firearm.

[Glassunion]

3. Gun settles grievance in North Carolina...

http://www2.mooresvilletribune.com/content/2010/jan/07/woman-turns-tables-rape-suspect/

and so on and so on.

Such a travesty...

[Katya Mullethov]

5. I dont know if I would call that a grievance

I am certain she did find it quite disconcerting however .

//////
Billings has an extensive criminal history, dating back 20 years, and many of the offenses invovled sexual conduct with children. The victim in this case, said Capt. Darren Campbell, is an adult.

no kidding
/////

She called the sheriff's office early Thursday morning from Billings' home on East Memorial Highway and said she'd been raped and was holding her attacker at gunpoint, Campbell.
Deputies arrived and took Billings into custody.

How fortunate they got there before she got all cramped up or had to take a bathroom break .

[Glassunion]

7. Or get there before the gun started shooting the victim (rapist)

[sharesunited]

8. This rape occurred at gunpoint. No gun, no rape. Zero points awarded.

[eqfan592]

9. Indeed, because only guns have ever been used to aid in the raping of a woman.

Isn't that right, shares?

[TPaine7]

10. This illogic occured at a computer. No computer, no BS. Let's infringe the First too!

(Of course, you could still communicate BS without a computer--though it would be harder for us to read it and laugh--and I don't support infringing the First Amendment, but it was fun typing that.)

[proteus_lives]

11. Wow.

You're not serious are you?

[jeepnstein]

13. Points? That's just sickening.

[Glassunion]

14. 2 points awarded...

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/22122338/detail.html

Bad guys had no gun... Aaannd no shots fired. According to your logic, the gun (not the one weilding it) decided not to shoot and it saved the day.

Perhaps there are good guns and bad guns. Perhaps when we buy a gun we should not choose the one smoking a cigarette, and sporting a goatee. That is how you spot the bad ones.

[sharesunited]

16. Definitely a 2-pointer. Not only does the crime commence without a gun

but the gun-toting victim exercises perfect restraint.

Everyone should like this story!

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Glassunion]

23. What?

[PavePusher]

27. I think your sarcasm meter...

needs calibration.;)

[Euromutt]

15. About 2% of rapes in the US involve use of a firearm

The overwhelming majority of rapists seem to manage without a firearm, and maybe this one would have as well. Your claim that the rape would not have occurred absent the firearm is dubious.

[TPaine7]

18. You are too kind--a flaw one might expect in a gentleman.

It's 100% grade A bullshit.

Thanks for the statistic.

[sharesunited]

21. Let's just deal with the four corners of the story.

I would never claim that rape doesn't occur without a firearm.

My observation is that date rape, for example, occurs because the woman is kind, indulgent, generous of spirit, and long suffering.

[rrneck]

29. That is the most contemptable load of bullshit I have seen in years.

And a new high in low for you. Date rape occurs because the rapist is a remorseless piece of garbage that needs to be locked up and have a phalanax of shrinks inflicted on him for years before he is allowed to be among decent people, if ever.

The woman that gets raped wasn't asking for it because of her gentle nature. At all. Ever.

If that's the best you can do shut the fuck up and get off this board until you learn some manners.

[sharesunited]

30. OMG stick to your subject.

This is what being a friend yields you.

A man who has been given a gun by your free society and uses it to try to get in your pants.

Don't bother to try to dress it up as anything other than rape at gunpoint.

Because a gun is given unto a rapist. Under color of the second amendment.

[rrneck]

31. I can't decide which is more pathetic and disgusting.

The way you hide behind a self righteous, sanctimonious, hypocritical veneer of compassion to blame the victim of a crime, or the way you promote a misogynistic, Neanderthal, redneck, position at the service of an intellectually bankrupt and morally repugnant vision of human behavior.

That post was a perfect example of what happens when ideology overwhelms intellectual rigor, moral integrity and emotional maturity.

In the unlikely event you say anything that is more than a waste of bandwith, it better be something more than the bottom feeding swill you have produced so far. You owe everyone on this board an apology for that insensitive, authoritarian, ignorant, medieval, self indulgent, chicken choking, ratshit excuse for discourse you are famous for.

You may begin your apology now.

[sharesunited]

33. I am the redneck? You are on here all day explaining how gun ownership cures all.

Anything anyone needs is the power to fire bullets into bodies and everything will be okay.

Never mind that such power kills innocents and compels victims to comply with this or that insane perverted example of malevolent will.

You are on the wrong side of the proliferation question.

Repent now.

[rrneck]

34. That wasn't an apology.

Answer the question I asked in post #28. Did the gun cause the rape?

Where's that apology?

[sharesunited]

36. Go there. What apology would you demand?

[rrneck]

38. A genuine one. I doubt you're up to it. nt

[Euromutt]

47. Yes, let's; ALL four corners

I would never claim that rape doesn't occur without a firearm.

I didn't assert that that was what you were claiming. What I am taking issue with is your assertion that this particular attempted rape would not have occurred had the would-be perp not been in possession of a handgun (your words: "no gun, no rape"). How do you know that if this particular rapist had not had access to a firearm, he would have opted to not (attempt to) commit the rape, relying instead on (say) a knife as his implement of coercion? Insofar as rapists use weapons at all, they overwhelmingly use knives (see Bureau of Justice Statistics: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=43). Given that the alleged perp in this case had a rather long criminal history, including sexual misconduct, asserting "no gun, no rape" strikes me as unadulterated bullshit.

[rd_kent]

19. Are you really dense enough to think that the rape may not have occured had there not been a gun?

[slackmaster]

25. Oh My Gawd, I can't believe sharesunited could be that insensitive

Illogical, sure.

[rrneck]

28. Did the gun cause the rape? nt

[sharesunited]

35. Yes, the gun caused the rape in this story. How can you argue otherwise?

The rapist's own gun was used to subdue him.

Absent the gun, this rape needs a different cause and story to report. Or non story because no crime is committed.

Do you care to tell the story in some way that the rapist's gun is a hero?

You're welcome to try to do that. Go for it.

[rrneck]

37. Bullshit.

Yes, the gun caused the rape in this story.


sharesunited (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-15-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. This rape occurred at gunpoint. No gun, no rape. Zero points awarded.


Explain the relationship between the firearm and the behavior of the rapist. I'll make it easy. Was it:

1.)Physical (chemical, electromagnetic, gravitational, aural, or any other process that can be detected by the five senses)

2.)Intellectual (did the firearm transmit specific information that compelled the criminal to attempt the assault)

3.)Cultural (did the firearm act in a symbolic manner that compelled the criminal to attempt the assault)

4.)Demonic (did the Devil posses the gun and make him do it)

Explain how it works if you can.

[sharesunited]

39. It amazes me why you care what his problem was. He used a gun to have his way.

If he did not hold in his hand that implement of life or death, there would be no victim. At least not within the four corners of this story.

I applaud that she seized a moment of inattentiveness to turn the weapon on her attacker.

I welcome that she used her new found power to summon the authorities and deliver him to them.

But the gun he brought into the equation made the attack possible in the first place.

Argue otherwise.

You can't.

This man's access to a gun started everything bad going on.

[TPaine7]

40. "But the gun he brought into the equation made the attack possible in the first place."

:rofl:

[tisfortomi]

41. Emboldened?

If he did not hold in his hand that implement of life or death, there would be no victim. At least not within the four corners of this story.

I applaud that she seized a moment of inattentiveness to turn the weapon on her attacker.

I welcome that she used her new found power to summon the authorities and deliver him to them.

But the gun he brought into the equation made the attack possible in the first place.

Argue otherwise.

You can't.

This man's access to a gun started everything bad going on.

So you believe that rape is impossible without a gun? Or simply that "rape at gunpoint" is impossible without a gun: the "gun crime" tautology? Yes, this story could not have happened this way without a gun. But it could have happened in any of a number of other ways.

I am baffled by the persistent notion that guns "embolden" criminals to commit crimes that they otherwise would not have committed. A different weapon, a weaker victim, an ambush: where there's a will, etc. Ironically, this criminal would have been more successful if he had relied on brute force alone. Yes, it may have been pure blind luck on the victim's part that she was able to get his gun, but clearly the instrument of her deliverance was the "implement of life or death." This is perhaps not the best incident to point to if one wishes to make the "guns are evil" argument.

I'm curious. How many points do you award when a woman is overpowered and raped by a stronger but unarmed man?

[rrneck]

46. You're right. Good luck on an answer from that guy.

He's probably already slithered away.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[rrneck]

45. You're throwing chaff.

Man up and answer the question.

You're still short one apology.

[rrneck]

49. HEY! You're still short one answer and one apology.

Cough it up.

[Euromutt]

50. "This man's access to a gun started everything bad going on"?

Yeah, the fact that he managed to acquire this particular gun was the cause of Billings having a 20 year long criminal history. With a criminal history like that--apparently including multiple offenses of sexual misconduct involving children--it's hard to believe Billings could have come by the gun by legal means, which would entail that he already intended to reoffend, and acquired the firearm illegally for that purpose.

Why can't get you get your head around the idea that criminal intent almost always precedes the acquisition of the weapon, not vice-versa? Nobody buys a gun and walks out of the gun shop thinking "hey, now that I have a gun, I should totally use it to rob/rape/murder somebody; that'll be a hoot!"

[Pavulon]

42. So rape and murder never existed before the gun?

europe during the dark ages must have been a wonderful place.

[rrneck]

32. HEY! I asked you a question. Stop hiding and answer it. nt

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eqfan592]

24. Damn you rd_kent!

I keep clicking the link to your posts to see a sock puppet and when I arrive THERE'S NO GODDAMNED SOCK PUPPET!! I DEMAND that you produce what you promised, sir!!!!!









;)

[rd_kent]

26. Hahaha! There seems to be a lot of them lately. Not sure why?

Maybe just trying to increase apparent support for unsupportable positions......

I find it funny how the language is EXACTLY the same. You would think there would be a better attempt to not be so obvious.

[jeepnstein]

4. The gun didn't do anything.

Blaming an inanimate object for the actions of a murderer is kind of foolish if you ask me. Why make excuses for the guy? He chose to commit murder and then have a shoot out with the police. John Kalisz is to blame for the incident.

[proteus_lives]

12. Once again, you have no point.

I'll never understand blaming a tool for human actions.

[rd_kent]

22. It is a tragedy. Did you have a point?

[SteveM]

43. "Such a tragedy." Your not very convincing, never have been. nt

[Glassunion]

44. Will you ignore this? Like you do every time someone trys to glean something intelligent from you.

Wow, I am not sure where to start. I guess I will apologize to everyone for posting the story about the woman who was so brutally raped. It was a sarcastic attempt at showing how deplorable these (point system) posts are, hence the play on words “travesty” to his “tragedy”.

I had no idea that there are those here who derive such sadistic pleasure from the pain of others. I also had no idea that I was posting messages in reply to such an underdeveloped capacity for thought and compassion. Not to mention a complete lack of any sense of civility. After reading all of the messages in this thread, I must say that I have nothing but a complete lack of respect for the OP. I see nothing but an individual of retarded character, who relies on a one dimensional viewpoint, outside of which he cannot exist, nor is willing to acknowledge that other viewpoints or opinions may exist.

Again, I am going to apologize for posting the two stories about individuals who used firearms to defend themselves. I am in regret that I sunk to his level in an attempt at sarcasm. For that I have no excuse and hope you all can see past that.

Back to the OP and the subsequent replies to the topic. I am left with the following opinion. After reading your comments in this thread, I am left with the impression that you are indeed a sadistic individual. Do you sit in front of your computer working yourself up into a froth digging for stories of tragedy and despair so you post them with snide comments so you can finally have your eagerly anticipated release? From reading your posts, you have no problem reporting on tragedy; however I have no doubt that you have exactly zero empathy or sympathy for the victims that you so eagerly post about. Also, you post with such a transparent, self-righteous and indignant fervor that a 5 year old could see through your façade as well as the depth of your ineptitude.

I am further sickened by your assumption that it is that fault of society that the rapist had a gun. Society did not give this piece of garbage a gun. The rapist had a long and violent criminal record and therefore unable to obtain a gun via legal means. So your statement that it is the fault of society (who gave him the gun) that the woman was raped is even more reprehensible.

But what I am disgusted most by, was your comment that “My observation is that date rape, for example, occurs because the woman is kind, indulgent, generous of spirit, and long suffering.” Sir, let me explain something to you in the most simple of terms. When having a discussion about rape, NEVER again explain that it “occurs because the woman ” in any fashion, or in any way. In fact you should never have a discussion about rape again, as you clearly do not have the mental capacity for it. Your light hearted statements when you comment on such a brutal event further my point that you have no genuine regard for what you are posting or the people that the posts pertain to. Never, not once in all of history has a rape occurred because of something that a woman did. Remember that.

I cannot fully express how honestly disgusted I am at your comments and opinions. You contribute nothing to your sycophantic cause; in fact you further prove that the cause you stand for is not to be taken seriously. Your ubiquitous ineptitude at proving your point is clearly evident in everything that you post.

If you continue to post on the topic I will look forward to reading them, as I find your posts adolescent, eager attempts at an apparently phony self righteousness that I can compare to the simple, sophomoric fart-jokes that I occasionally enjoy.

[sharesunited]

48. I will give serious thought to everything you said to me in your post.

It was lengthy, but I read every word.

[Glassunion]

51. I'm glad.

Until then, everyone have a nice day.

I'm off to go and have lunch with my wife and perhaps make a trip to the mall. I of course have my gun tucked discreetly into its holster under my shirt. I promise to all not to fire it blindly into a crowd, nor will I rape, rob or pillage. I'm civilized.

[sharesunited]

52. Your sanity and sound judgment dangle by the same thin thread which anyone's does.

Welcome to DU by the way. You're doing great!

[Glassunion]

53. No one was killed...

It's amazing... I was armed, enabled, emboldened, free and loose int the general public and no one was hurt. How could this travesty have happened?

[sharesunited]

54. Seriously? You were carrying a gun? Why?

[TPaine7]

55. Of course Glassunion can speak for himself,

but why wouldn't he carry a gun?

People who transport money, diamonds and other valuables carry guns.

Glassunion transports something infinitely more valuable everywhere he goes--his life.

[Glassunion]

56. I'm sorry

I would rather not hash it out again.

If you care to, here you go: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=281494&mesg_id=281494

[east texas lib]

57. In related news, Colt 1911s caught attempting to cross into US...

With magazine wells stuffed full of marijuana and undocumented migrant workers. Pistol #xJ146xx was quoted as saying "Owners? We don't need no stinkin' owners, WE got the power now". "Damned straight! If you won't shoot somebody than I WILL!" chimed in pistol #xLO19xx. Authorities are working overtime to develop countermeasures to combat this deadly menace. Such a tragedy.:crazy: