Gun control group gives Obama failing grade; says it's been disappointing year

[TacticalPeek]

Source: The Hill



Gun control group gives Obama failing grade; says it's been disappointing year

By Michael O'Brien - 01/18/10 09:54 AM ET


President Barack Obama received a failing grade from the a gun control advocacy group on Monday.

The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence blasted the president, whom the group endorsed in 2008, for not having taken significant steps to advance gun control laws.

"It's been a very disappointing year for us, especially considering what he campaigned on," the group's president, Paul Helmke, said during an appearance on MSNBC. "This year they ran away from the issue, and actually signed two repeals of good gun legislation."

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/76593-leading-gun-control-group-has-harsh-words-for-obama?tmpl=component&print=1&page=

---

The urgency of some vague time in the future.

[Imajika]

1. Excellent...

Thank God the Democratic party finally dropped this gun control nonsense.

If the Brady Campaign is unhappy with Obama on guns, then you can bet Obama is on the right side of the American people on this one.

Gun control is dead, please just let it go.

[harun]

3. Agree. We have bigger fish to fry.

[Zoeisright]

33. Tell that to the thousands of Americans who are dead thanks to gun nuts.

What an asinine comment.

[harun]

54. A lot more die from injustice in the Health Care system and from wars of choice.

Both of which are MUCH BIGGER FISH to fry.

Gun control is a political dead end and that is fine by me. They want to reduce gun violence in America they need to start by working on the Cowboy culture here, not the gun laws. England, Canada, Germany, etc. etc. have less gun violence not because of laws but because of a culture of social justice and non-violence. They don't preach that the worlds problems can all be solved by the careful application of violence. The U.S.A. does preach this, and the people listen.

[SteveM]

65. I appreciate most of what you say...

but I have trouble with this: "They don't preach that the worlds problems can all be solved by the careful application of violence."

If this is in regard to military/foreign policy, I would tend to agree. If it applies to domestic social policy viz-a-viz gun issues, there is little in this forum which reflects that attitude. Most pro-2A folks here see the RKBA as a means to protect one's self and family, not as a social policy designed to "solve" problems. In the future, there may be an adequate statistical model by which to measure, say, the number of guns held by folks (or carried concealed) against drops in crime (an eminently worthy social goal), but as yet, this pro-2A poster has not been convinced.

There are a LOT of gun-controllers who repeat daily, over & over again that pro-2A folks want "ever body armed" and "think they can stop crime by shooting criminals" or some-such. No, an individual may stop a violent crime in self-defense, but this is not seen as social policy by the majority of pro-2A people in this forum.

[rd_kent]

56. Asinine comment? Did you read your own post?

The thousands you refer to were killed by criminals.

You use of the term gun nuts shows that no matter what facts or evidence are provided, your eyes and ears will be closed to the truth.

[SteveM]

64. The Brady Bunch gave Vermont a failing grade on its gun laws...

even though that state experienced only 4 murders last year, NONE OF THEM BY FIREARM. The Bradys are much, much more interested in passing prohibitionist laws than in solving social problems. This is typical of the prohibitionist. Guns, ganja, gay rights, alcohol, reproductive rights, tobacco: everywhere prohibitionism raises its head, deep corruption, prisons, jails, and vast expense are sure to follow. And none of the social problems claimed to be addressed will be improved. But this is not the aim of prohibitionists: their aim is to use government to both validate their moral outlook and to punish transgressors. It is that vulgar Puritanism -- pleasure in punishing moral transgressors and the hated "Other" -- which motivates the prohibitionist. Hence, the Brady's deeper concern over Vermont's statutes than any social problem they care to throw out as cover.

Please be aware that the Brady Center is Republican-founded and Republican-led.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

85. Those thousands of people are killed by criminals not by the average NRA member.

[Kolesar]

5. If you drop it, it might go off

so be careful

[kjones]

9. Why has no one give you a five yet?

*Up high*

[Kolesar]

Back at-cha!

:toast:

[SteveM]

66. Ahh! I see, I see. Good one. nt

[sharesunited]

7. Do you want gun control to be dead or people to be dead? You can't have both.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. Actually you can, its not a guns vs butter issue as you and the Brady Bunch insist

[slackmaster]

11. False Dilemma

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/false-dilemma.html

[rrneck]

14. What solution do you offer

for an unarmed individual confronted by an assailant armed with a knife, club, fists or feet?

[rd_kent]

27. Oh, how wrong you are shares, as usual.....

but repeating the FACTS that disprove your broken-record talking points is useless.



The stupid, it burns!!!!

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zoeisright]

35. +100000

Exactly. Thank you.

[rd_kent]

39. See what I mean?

The stupid, it burns....

[rrneck]

57. If you don't mind,

I'll ask the same of you:

What solution do you offer for an unarmed individual confronted by an assailant armed with a knife, club, fists or feet?

[proteus_lives]

45. Actually you can have gun control be dead and people who are fine.

It's common sense.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TPaine7]

60. I want gun control extremism to be dead then,

and since I can't have people being dead too I guess we'll all just be immortal.

Oh well.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

86. Yet as gun control has lessened the murder rate has dropped. How is that possible?

[Euromutt]

90. Well, I don't want anybody dead, so I'll choose for gun control to be dead

If you're going to set up a false dichotomy, make sure the split actually supports your argument. That way, it's still a fallacy, but at least it doesn't undercut the point you're trying to make.

[Callisto32]

98. Switzerland.

You lose.

[Zoeisright]

30. What a stupid comment.

Gun violence is a huge problem in this country.

Gun Deaths - United States Tops The List

The United States leads the world's richest nations in gun deaths -- murders, suicides, and accidental deaths due to guns - according to a study published April 17, 1998 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the International Journal of Epidemiology.

The U.S. was first at 14.24 gun deaths per 100,000 people. Two other countries in the Americas came next. Brazil was second with 12.95, followed by Mexico with 12.69.

Japan had the lowest rate, at 0.05 gun deaths per 100,000 (1 per 2 million people). The police in Japan actively raid homes of those suspected of having weapons.

Guns are not a solution for impotency.

[rd_kent]

36. "Guns are not a solution for impotency" - On that I would agree, but no one but you seems to use

them for that.



There are more than 300 million guns in the hands of Americans, the highest gun ownership rate ever, yet gun crime is at its lowest since 1961.


Coincidence? Maybe, but it v=certainly proves that more guns DO NOT equal more crime.

[bossy22]

42. misleading statistic

gun deaths include suicides- which isnt very much a "teller" of how safe a country is. People don't need guns to commit suicide- nor is it the most effective way either. I think if you look at the stats, you will see japan and many other countries that have stricter gun control have a higher suicide rate. So why does it matter that a person used a gun to kill themselves instead of car exhaust- is it some how better if the person died because of carbon monoxide poisoning instead of a bullet?

[harkadog]

43. So you want the U.S. to have the politics of Japan?

Sell that somewhere else.

[GreenStormCloud]

58. But they have higher violent crime rates.

The UK have a violent crime rate over four times that of ours. As a senior citizen, who can't win a fight with a mugger, I much perfer our country that allows me to have the tools to defeat violent criminals, that a country like the UK that insists that I submit quietly to homan predators.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

92. Where did you get this statistic?

I feel so much safer walking the streets of my little UK town than walking in the streets of where I used to live in the US.

You're just trying to make up things in order to justify having guns in your possession.

I think the US should adopt something similar to the UK, you have to go in for an interview, your home inspected, and it takes a long time to get your gun licence (background check research etc).

[SteveM]

67. Most women I've seen at the range are not afflicted by "impotency." nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

88. 11 year old studies. That's the best you got? Quit bringing your boyfriends problem here.

[Euromutt]

91. For the past ten years, the Brazilian homicide rate has been four times the U.S. rate

Somehow, a lower gun death rate (eleven years ago) doesn't mean people aren't willing to murder each other in significantly higher numbers. The discrepancy is largely explained by the fact that Americans commit suicide three times as often as Brazilians (who are still Catholic enough to think suicide is a sin), and that firearms are the preferred method of suicide here. In fact, firearm suicides outnumber firearm homicides in the U.S., and as bossy22 as already noted above, the U.S. suicide rate is lower than that of quite a few countries with more restrictive gun laws, e.g. Sweden, Poland, France, South Korea, Japan and Russia (in ascending order of suicide rate).

The police in Japan actively raid homes of those suspected of having weapons.

The police in Japan also routinely beat confessions out of suspects, and the criminal "justice" system convicts them entirely on the basis of those confessions.

The Japanese suicide rate is over twice as high as the American one. The Japanese language has two words for familicidal murder-suicide; ikka-shinju for when the entire family collectively agreed to commit suicide (and the parents kill the children, then themselves), and muri-shinju for when one or both parents murder the rest of the family before offing themselves. Reportedly, there's at least one muri-shinju every day; probably more since the economy tanked in 2008. I've also been led to understand that all victims of a domestic murder-suicide are counted as suicides (which would, rather disturbingly, go some way to explaining why the suicide rate is so high while the homicide rate is so low).

When you look at as big a picture as you can manage, instead of cherry-picking data to match a preconceived conclusion, you'll see that legal availability of firearms has very little to do with people's tendency to kill themselves or others. Guns are simply a tool, and if you want to reduce violence, you need to address why the violence occurs in the first place. If you focus on the tool, rather than the cause, the violence will continue, either with illegal firearms, or with other weapons, except you'll have deprived those citizens who are generally law-abiding of the most effective means of resisting violent crime.

[proteus_lives]

44. +1000

Time to bury gun control deep.

[Don Caballero]

2. I agree with my former mayor Paul Helmke

Aggressive gun control measures must be part of the President's domestic policy in his first term.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. Like what?

We've seen a fix for actual problems, like states that weren't previously reporting mental health issues to NICS getting the appropriate links up and running.

The BATFE is still scouring the land for straw purchasers. What more do you want?

[Don Caballero]

13. Limitation of number of firearms and ammo one can own

No one with any criminal record (DUI, shoplifting, etc...) may own a firearm. Much stiffer sentences for those who break gun laws. The outlaw of all handguns. So many other ideas I support when it comes to getting guns off the street.

[rrneck]

17. What solution do you offer

someone who has been convicted of shoplifting if they are confronted by an assailant armed with a knife, club, fists or feet?

[Don Caballero]

18. Why should criminals be allowed to own firearms?

They have the right to protect themselves but not with a firearm. Knives under a certain length are okay as are natural fighting skills.

[rrneck]

20. So,

a nineteen year old girl with a shoplifting conviction would have to defend herself againse one or more much larger and more agressive assailants who may also be armed with knives. Or she could just use her "natural fighting skills"...

On edit:

Here are some hardened criminals that would be able to use their natural fighting skills to fend off an attack:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0115103mugs11.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0115103mugs7.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0115103mugs8.html

[rd_kent]

24. We cannot all be kung-fu masters like you Don, with "natural fighting skills"......

The stupid, it burns!!!!!!

[Abq_Sarah]

50. Uh-huh

To be honest, if someone came at me with a knife, I'd rather have a gun than "fighting skills".

[AtheistCrusader]

83. Same reason they have the right to vote.

Or should have the right to vote, but we strip that in many cases, after the person has served their sentence.

Not right.

[Callisto32]

99. How do you define criminal?

Should simple possession of cannabis keep you from owning firearms?

[bossy22]

23. federal handgun bans

are a thing of the past since the heller ruling

not to mention the majority of the american public does not agree with a total handgun ban

[naaman fletcher]

25. Would you limit the number of controversial books a person can read?

A limitation is not a violation of a fundamental right, or is it?

If limiting gun purchases is ok, is limiting the number of "dangerous" books ok?

[friendly_iconoclast]

76. How about a limit on high-capacity books?

Maybe we could push for a 250 page limit. But those damned publishers will just exploit the 'publish in two volumes loophole'...

[rrneck]

77. Duct tape them together to expand capacity. nt

[Ter]

37. So if I shoplifted in 1991 when I was 18 that's it for me?

I can never buy a gun ever?

[FunkyLeprechaun]

93. No

You were 18 and an adult at the time. You should never own a gun if you committed a crime.

My friend was 16 when she participated in a robbery with two other sixteen-year-olds (she was the getaway driver). She was lucky her mom was a lawyer, she escaped a prison sentence but got slapped with a felony for aiding and abetting (her friends got five years in juvie). Her mom had to give up her gun since her daughter was now a felon and it was illegal for her to have firearms in the house. Her daughter can never own a gun for life.

[rrneck]

96. What kind of crime?

As I recall, if one is convicted of a felony he/she is prohibited from owning a firearm.

http://www.instapunk.com/archives/BATF_Form_4473a.html

[FunkyLeprechaun]

100. They broke into a store on one of those small strip malls

In the small city I used to live in.

They planned the robbery for a bit, booked a hotel room, etc. The two boys went in to rob the store while the girl (my friend) waited in the car as the getaway driver. They broke into the till and stole a significant sum of money.

It would have been successful if one of the fellows hadn't stabbed the other over the money. She was tried at the same time as them but she was very lucky she had her own lawyer mum to represent her and she got out of a prison sentence and they didn't. She got to finish High School and got a college degree, they didn't. She was known as a felon in my city but her records are now difficult to find now, I think her mother had argued to get the conviction expunged from her record (used all sorts of excuses to get them expunged).

However, I know at the time when she was sentenced her mom had to give up her gun.

So I think, despite her prior conviction as a felon, she could now possibly acquire a gun because her record is now clean.

[rrneck]

101. That sounds like a fair argument

for allowing former felons to own guns. As long as they are properly rehabilitated, should they not be allowed to do so?

[X_Digger]

40. "outlaw of all handguns"

Yah, good luck with that one, *snort*

http://www.gallup.com/poll/123596/In-U.S.-Record-Low-Support-Stricter-Gun-Laws.aspx

[PavePusher]

70. I'll agree to two of your proposals...

"Limitation of number of firearms and ammo one can own."

"The outlaw of all handguns."


...if you give your word that you will be on the door-to-door enforcement teams yourself. Without pay. No hired minions (presumably with guns). You can start at my house.

Come on, seize the moral high ground.

[kelly1mm]

78. What would you propose for gun control measures that are even

plausibly constitutional in light of Heller, unlike most of what you list (stiffer sentences is probably OK)?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. Do you really hate Obama that much?

It would me a one term Presidency and the loss of one or both houses.

[Don Caballero]

15. I love Obama and trust that he follows through on gun control legislation

The President is a well known gun control advocate and a person who understands that less guns equals less crime.

[rd_kent]

29. I think you are misguided, as it has been PROVEN that less guns does NOT equal less crime.

But you know that, we have already provided you with the proof and the facts.

[X_Digger]

41. more guns != more crime

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2009prelimsem/index.html

Preliminary figures indicate that, as a whole, law enforcement agencies throughout the Nation reported a decrease of 4.4 percent in the number of violent crimes brought to their attention for the first six months of 2009 when compared with figures reported for the same time in 2008. The violent crime category includes murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. The number of property crimes in the United States from January to June of 2009 decreased 6.1 percent when compared with data from the same time period in 2008. Property crimes include burglary, larceny-theft, and motor vehicle theft. Arson is also a property crime, but data for arson are not included in property crime totals. Figures for 2009 indicate that arson decreased 8.2 percent when compared to 2008 figures from the same time period.

Yet at the same time..

http://www.ammoland.com/2010/01/13/gun-owners-buy-14-million-plus-guns-in-2009/

Data released by the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) for the year reported 14,033,824 NICS Checks for the year of 2009, a 10 percent increase in gun purchases from the 12,709,023 reported in 2008.

So far that is roughly 14,000,000+ guns bought last year!
The total is probably more as many NICS background checks cover the purchase of more than one gun at a time by individuals.

[SteveM]

69. Your rigid refusal to recognize basic truths is not becoming...

and goes to a lack of moral authority in your "arguments." Again and again: Over the last 12 years the number of firearms in civilian hands has gone up from approx. 190 million to well over 300 million. Yet during that time violent crime rates (including the use of guns) has gone down.

Your statement "less guns equals less crime" is not proven.

[spin]

84. Are you a flat earther too?

It would seem obvious that the earth is flat, but facts prove the belief false.

Violent crime rates have been falling for years during the same period that the number of firearms in our country have dramatically increased.

AS YOU HAVE no doubt heard, the first 10 years of the 21st century were dreadful -- a lost decade of terrorism, war and economic stagnation. There is some truth to that portrayal. But in one significant respect, the awful Aughties were practically a golden age. We refer to the continued progress the United States is making against homicide and other violent crime.

According to some conventional wisdom, economic trouble breeds lawlessness. Yet in the first half of 2009, as unemployment skyrocketed, reported murders, forcible rapes, robberies and aggravated assaults decreased by 4.4 percent compared with the first half of 2008, according to the FBI. The decline in homicide was especially striking: down 29.8 percent in Los Angeles, 14 percent in Atlanta, 10 percent in Boston. With 461 murders through Dec. 27, New York was on track for the lowest number since comprehensive record-keeping began in 1963 -- when the Big Apple was a slightly smaller town.

***snip***

The national decrease in murder began about two decades ago. In 1991, the national homicide rate hit 9.8 per 100,000 inhabitants, prompting forecasts of permanently rising street violence -- then fell to 5.7 in 1999. Many wondered whether this "Great Crime Decline" could be sustained for another 10 years. The answer would appear to be yes: By 2008, the murder rate had drifted down to 5.4 per 100,000, the lowest level since 1965. And given the preliminary figures, the rate for 2009 should be lower still. Indeed, if present trends continue, America will experience a degree of public safety not known since the 1950s. emphasis added
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/01/AR2010010101829.html

According to gun control supporter dogma—“more guns means more crime”—the number of privately owned firearms must have decreased 10 percent in 2009. To the contrary, however, the number rose between 1.5 and 2 percent, to an all-time high. For the better part of the last 15 months, firearms, ammunition, and “large” ammunition magazines have been sold in what appear to be record quantities. And, the firearms that were most commonly purchased in 2009 are those that gun control supporters most want to be banned—AR-15s, similar semi-automatic rifles, and handguns designed for defense. The National Shooting Sports Foundation already estimates record ammunition sales in 2009, dominated by .223 Remington, 7.62×39mm, 9mm and other calibers widely favored for defensive purposes.

Also indicative of the upward trend in firearm sales, the number of national instant check transactions rose 24.5 percent in the first six months of 2009 compared to the first six months in 2008, the greatest increase since NICS’ inception in 1998. Through the end of October, NICS transactions rose18 percent, compared to the same period in 2008.
http://www.ihatethemedia.com/fbi-reports-decrease-in-murders-increase-in-gun-sales

Just continue to ignore the facts.

[friendly_iconoclast]

95. We're dealing with a True Believer

"Faith is the denial of observation in order to preserve belief" - Tim Minchin.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

87. How about some statistics to back that up?

[rrneck]

16. Can you be more specific? nt

[rd_kent]

28. Well, I am glad you and your former Mayor were not listened to.

Civil Rights are important, and I think the President knows this, which is why you and yours are being ignored.

[proteus_lives]

46. That would make it his only term.

Most sane Americans hate authoritarians and their anti-gun/rights policies.

[SteveM]

68. If he wants to serve one term, then he should follow that Republican's advice. nt

[hack89]

94. First and only term. nt

[Mojorabbit]

4. Wonderful!!! nt

[caraher]

6. I think he had much bigger fish to fry

and the timing could not have been worse for a big gun control push. By doing so little Obama revealed the "he's coming for my guns!" paranoia for the idiotic fantasy it always was. Had this become a centerpiece of his domestic policy agenda we'd probably see more nuts actually shooting people up with all that ammo they'd been hoarding (it was bad enough that we had the incidents we did have).

[SteveM]

71. You see the political impracticality of gun prohibition, but...

the "he's coming for my guns!" paranoia is far less convincing. President Obama's own web site, and the web sit of the DNC both continue to call for bans on "assault weapons" (only more sweeping and permanent).

I doubt you would see "more nuts actually shooting people" had Obama pushed for his gun-control agenda; that speaks to a greater depth of paranoia, in my humble opinion.

Tell me, please: would you consider it paranoia if blacks were angry and upset at a right-wing president who said "now is not the time for any new apartheid measures" if in his/her policy statements and platform they called for segregation and re-instituting voter "literacy tests?"

[Socal31]

19. Good.

"Gun control" is actually going in the opposite direction. More states are loosening gun laws rather than tightening them.

Those with a Kucinich-esque fantasy of some government gun ban/buyback program are dreaming.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rd_kent]

31. as usual, you have nothing to say.

It would seem that you concoct these childish posts in an attempt to get others to laugh at your sense of humor, but the only laughter you create are those of us laughing AT you.

[-..__...]

22. I hope you're listening, Martha.

Brady Campaign Endorses Coakley: Cites "Real Risk" To Massachusetts Of A Brown Victory

Jan 15, 2010

Washington, DC - The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence today endorsed Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley in the special election for the U.S. Senate seat previously held by the late Edward M. Kennedy, calling her election critical because her opponent has become beholden to the National Rifle Association and other gun extremists.

Paul Helmke, President of the Brady Campaign, said that a Brown victory could lead to passage of federal legislation that would force Massachusetts to allow out-of-state residents to carry loaded, hidden handguns in the state. This would include states with much weaker concealed carry laws like Florida, Louisiana, Alabama and Alaska. Currently, no out-of-state residents are allowed to carry guns in Massachusetts.

“This race is a clear choice between a tough, law-and-order leader who wants to fight gun violence in Massachusetts and a state legislator who has, either wittingly or unwittingly, become a poster child for the ‘guns everywhere’ gun lobby,” said Helmke. “The people of Massachusetts should be clear what’s going on here: The gun groups are coming into Massachusetts to help Scott Brown because they know Martha Coakley will stand up to their reckless agenda. They also know that if he’s in their debt, Scott Brown will do their bidding.”

“The gun lobby already owns too many legislators in Washington D.C.,” Helmke said.

In the past year, the ‘guns everywhere’ lobby has succeeded in passing legislation mandating that people be allowed to carry loaded, concealed guns in America’s national parks and also to allow people to bring firearms in checked baggage on Amtrak trains. In addition, the gun lobby has blocked passage of legislation that would give the Justice Department the ability to stop suspected terrorists from purchasing firearms.

“There are tremendously important bills coming up for consideration by the United States Senate on the gun violence issue,” Helmke said. “Based on her record, we trust Martha Coakley to vote the right way to reduce gun violence, and we urge all Massachusetts voters who care about the need for stronger gun laws to give her their support.”

http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/press/view/1212

Hmmmm... nothing on her website about this.

I wonder if she quietly thanked them then filed it in the trash can, or it's just that her website hasn't been updated?

http://www.marthacoakley.com/about/Endorsements

[TacticalPeek]

32. Funny cartoon.

:)

[rd_kent]

26. When the Brady Bunch gives you a failing grade, you are doing it right.

[proteus_lives]

47. That's right!

[Ter]

38. Good!

The anti-gun crowd can form their own party.

[proteus_lives]

48. Great news!

The Brady bunch and the rest of the anti-gun/rights authoritarians are poison to Democrats. Bury them forever!

Being a gun-grabber is no different then being a fundie pro-lifer or an anti-marriage rights activist. They're trying to take away our rights.

[Don Caballero]

51. We gun control advocates will win in the end

Outlawing guns comes in stages not all at once. We are taking them away incrementally. We will be successful.

[proteus_lives]

53. So delusional.

:rofl:

"We gun control advocates will win in the end"

No you won't. You are part of a fringe group. The Democratic party has walked away from you because you're election poison and most Americans disagree with you because they value their rights.

You won't be able to ban guns, burn books, ban music, restrict voting rights or tell people how to think.

I know that makes your authoritarian heart heavy with sadness but you can live your life without controlling someone else. Work on it.

[rd_kent]

55. Sorry Don, but as usual, you are wrong again.

We are taking them away incrementally

Actually, gun rights have been EXPANDING over the last 10 years, soooo.......you are wrong, again.


How come you do not respond to posts where your talking points are 100% refuted by facts?

[-..__...]

59. Friends of yours?

And look... isn't that Sarah Brady sitting in the center-rear?

And I could be mistaken, but I swear that's Carolyn McCarthy kneeling on the far left (the one with mug that looks like J. Edgar Hoover).

[TPaine7]

62. Yuck

I don't drink, but that picture makes me want to!

[struggle4progress]

72. It's always good to see women resolutely protecting their liquor from drunkards

[TPaine7]

61. ...

:rofl:

[eqfan592]

63. Ignorance is historically a losing bet.

Which is why, over time, you will continue to lose ground, Don.

[Tim01]

74. Maybe in China. Not here. nt

[rrneck]

75. Let me know when you start.

But you better hurry, there's about three hundred million guns to get rid of, and they're making more all the time.

[kelly1mm]

79. What other will you go after once you "win in the end" on gun control?

[spin]

81. Like you successfully stopped shall issue concealed carry?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

89. That actually made me laugh out loud. Thanks.

For you to think that as gun laws are loosening in nearly every state just goes to show how delusional you are.

[Glassunion]

97. By taking them away incrementally do you mean...

Increasing gun sales by 10% over last year?

And, by we will be successful do you mean, we will fail.

Yay! Opposite day! I love Spongebob!

[taurus145]

102. How can you ignore facts

Then spew such falsehoods with a straight face?

[winyanstaz]

52. Well boo hoo for them and a round of applause for Obama :)

That is good news as far as I am concerned. :)

[Tim01]

73. I guess he figures this is bad time to destroy the democratic party. nt

[east texas lib]

80. Good for the Prez, bummer for the Brady crew.

I hope Helmke likes crow in his humble pie.

[jody]

82. If the Scary Brady Bunch is against something it must be right. n/t