I don't think fascism tolerates an armed population.

[safeinOhio]

The SCOTUS decision will destroy the Second Amendment. This is a call for ALL supporters of the Constitution to buy up every gun and bullet.


Ok, I'm feeling a little crazy, but what else can we do?

[Tim01]

1. Dear god. Not another run on ammo. nt

[TheWraith]

22. Amen to that.

Some of us can't afford 50 cents a round, and I'd like to go target shooting again someday.

[katandmoon]

2. The NRA already owns Congress.

[safeinOhio]

3. NRA does not have enough money to compete with China. nt

[SteveM]

18. Maybe it's time for Congress to divest itself of gun-control stock...

Then the NRA wouldn't have much to go after. Unless, of course, you wish to continue taking losses in the hope there will be a run-up in the future.

By the way, take a look at the latest cover of Texas Monthly.

[Grand Taurean]

4. Perhaps they will throw out the 2nd amendment next.

[valerief]

5. Maybe some nice country will invade us and free us. Hell, what am I thinking?

Free us like Iraq? Jeesuz H!

[GreenStormCloud]

6. Not likely.

They overturned a previous decision that was only twenty years old. All they did was return things to the way they were in the 1980s. The second survived for over two centuries before then.

You are greatly over reacting. We were not a facist country previous to the 1980s and we won't be now.

I am not saying that I support the decision. It does shift the balance of power toward big money, but that isn't new. I am saying that it isn't the end of the country.

[onehandle]

7. Won't work. The corporations wrap themselves in flags and gun owners fall for it. nt

[safeinOhio]

8. Corporations wrap themselves in only one thing and it ain't the flag.

Thomas Jefferson wrote in his March 17, 1814 letter to Horatio Spatford that "Merchants have no country, the mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains,"

[rd_kent]

26. Fall for what?

[benEzra]

9. Huh?

The corporations have always been against the 2ndA, and that's one issue where campaign finance rules were never interpreted to prevent corporations from having their way. The gun prohibition movement wouldn't have gotten ANY traction in the 1990's if they hadn't received billions of dollars worth of in-kind airtime donations from Big Media.

This may have some effects with regard to (say) environmental issues or health care, but the 2ndA? No, the 2ndA survived back when anti-gun corporations had a media monopoly, so it will survive now.

[Larkspur]

10. I'm not a fan of guns, but how about us liberals going to gun shops to buy guns

and tell the owners we're doing it because the corporations have taken over America and we have to be ready to fight back?

Wonder what the righties will think when liberals arm ourselves against them?

[safeinOhio]

11. Thanks Larkspur

That is my point.

[Glassunion]

12. They may "Trickle Down"

[Enthusiast]

16. I want to point out

something often overlooked by the "white" citizen, liberal or otherwise.

Black gun ownership, and legal concealed carrying of guns, is not on an equal footing with white gun ownership. It simply isn't.

[SteveM]

19. Are you implying this is the case because of population size...

or because there is a legacy of Jim Crow gun-laws (now banished except in a few "liberal/progressive" enclaves like NYC, Chi, SF) which have denigrated firearms ownership in African-American culture?

Not trying to pick a fight, but what is the point of your posting? Am I missing something?

NOTE this b.g. information: firearms ownership (by percentage) is even less among Hispanic-Americans. Perhaps 10+ percent of women own firearms. Further, in areas outside of the localities mentioned above, there is little to prevent ownership of firearms by ANY ONE, other than the NICS test. Regarding firearm ownership, in most places in America, Jim Crow is dead.

[Enthusiast]

23. I'm saying, and

you are welcome to your contrary point of view, that in the eyes of law enforcement, a black man carrying a weapon better make his intentions known loud and clear, or risk being shot to death. It matters little what the letter of the law is.

Imagine a young black man legally carrying a concealed firearm in any kind of encounter with law enforcement, be it a routine traffic stop or whatever. It is a recipe for disaster.

The many instances of shooting first and asking questions later come to mind. Did the "suspect" have a camera or was he reaching for a cell phone?

I'm just saying.....

[paulsby]

25. bullshit

i've pulled over @ least a dozen black men w/ccw's. have yet to shoot any of them.

fwiw, there's a guy who also open carries in the area i work. i have yet to hear of him being harassed by cops.

this is WA. open carry is also a constitutional right

[Enthusiast]

27. In your personal experience.

Washington is quite different from the rest of the country in regards to minority relations. Think Eastern States like Virginia, Ohio, Indiana or Georgia. A black man better not have anything in their hands that could remotely be confused with a handgun.

[paulsby]

28. i readily admit

i cannot speak to those areas i am relatively unfamiliar with as to law enforcement and minority relations. my experience has been in WA and MA.

[SteveM]

31. I will grant that LEO has a great suspicion of blacks with firearms...

and I also suspect that in the encounters LEO has with blacks, there are very, very few concealed-carry permits involved.

The "shoot first...ask questions later" encounters won't be affected by the presence of a CCW permit OR firearm if the latter remains concealed until the arrested is asked about weapons. If you have an example of a black (or anyone) who is shot after announcing that he has a CCW and a weapon when asked, please provide it.

[Glassunion]

34. Two personal experiences...

I was stopped early one morning for having a headlight out. The officer was very nice, a young man of about 25 or so. He did not ask any loaded questions, such as "Do you know why I stopped you?" or anything of the sort. When he asked for my DL and insurance/registration I had to go into my briefcase in the back seat to get them for the officer. I informed the officer that my paperwork was in my briefcase and I asked if it was ok to step out to obtain them. He had no problem with that. After I stepped out he asked if I had any weapons in the car. I stated that I was carrying. He simply asked for my "CCW" and I produced it. He looked at it and said ok and walked back to his car while I was getting my paperwork. After he returned we went through the normal traffic stop BS that happens. He gave me a warning (no ticket), and I went on my way. Nothing happened... Imagine that.

The second time was a little different. I was stopped again for a headlight out (I have bad luck with headlights). This time the scenario was different as well. This was late at night, and I was driving through a small town. When stopped, I asked loaded and inappropriate questions, "Do you know how fast you were going? Do you know why I stopped you?" I gave the bare minimum of answers to the officer. Simply answering "Yes and No" to the prior questions. An officer once gave me a fun tip to use when dealing with officers. "Never lie, but admit nothing". Anyway, as this officer was continuing to question me with questions such as "Where are you going? Where are you coming from? Have you had anything to drink? Etc..." He asked if I had any weapons in the car. I answered that I was carrying. When I stated that, he instructed me to remove the keys from the ignition and drop them out the window onto the ground. It was at that point that I knew this was going to be a fun traffic stop. The officer backed away from my car and entered his, and there we sat for about 3 minutes while we waited for his black up to show up. 2 more cars arrived, one parked behind the first officer’s car and the other parked straight at me with the spot shining in my face. Clearly a tactical move. Needless to say I kept my hands firmly on the wheel in plain sight. Two of the officers began talking behind my car, while the other remained in front of me still in his car.

After a few minutes the officers behind my car then instructed me to slowly exit my vehicle, take 3 steps back and get on my knees with my hands on my head. So I did as I was instructed. One of the officers approached me from behind, locked my fingers together behind my head, and asked me where my gun was. I informed him that I had one on my right hip and a backup in my front pocket. They removed my firearms and spare mags from my person, unloaded them and placed them on the trunk of my car. I was patted down and once they insured that I did not have any more firearms on me I was permitted to stand, where they walked me to the front of my car. I was asked for my "CCW" which I produced for their inspection. One of the officers took the permit and went back to his car with it. The other two officers then began a barrage of questions, mostly asking the same quesitons over and over again. It is a tactic they use to make sure that you are telling the truth. I answered every question with a direct answer stating as little as possible. It started to get a little ugly when I was asked if they could search my car. I stated no, that they would need to obtain a warrant. They then began the threats of drug dogs coming out to check the car, your not answering my questions (most of which I was not legally obligated to answer), your acting suspiciously, etc... I stated plainly that all of that was ok, and they would still need a warrant.

The officers were clearly perturbed and slightly indignant that I was refusing their requests and not letting them operate outside of their rules and the law. So now here comes officer #4. I must say it was quite impressive the amount of resources that this small town had. I can almost state that I had the entire LE staff focused on me, not to mention blocking half the road. Now officer #4 seemed to be in charge of the shift. He was a lieutenant. He took one of the officers back behind my car, where he was shown my firearms and spare magazines that I had on me. I could not hear what they were saying at all. After a few moments the officers returned and the lieutenant began asking me some of the same exact questions, however he was avoiding the inappropriate ones.

After our quick talk, he instructed one of the other officers to give him my firearms. He took the first one, pulled the slide to insure it was unloaded and then handed it to me. I did the same with the slide, took my magazine from him, inserted it back into the gun and holstered it. We went through the same process for my back up. He sent two of the other officers away, so they got back into their cars and drove off. The lieutenant then apologized to me for the way I was treated, and told me to get my headlight fixed. He furthered that by saying that it will not happen again to anyone. “I will remind him of the bill of rights”, he may need a refresher.

I guess it all depends on the officer, there are good ones, and there are bad ones. Like the first officer and the lieutenant they do not see a reason to fear a black man with a gun or two. The other officer however might eventually shoot a black man for “smiling on a rainy day”.

[Enthusiast]

36. This is a great illustration

of the huge variation in the quality of law enforcement personnel. I'm a white man but I have experienced both kinds of law enforcement.

I grew up in a very small town environment where most of our police officers were those that lost better jobs elsewhere. We had some real doozies.

[SteveM]

38. Thanks for taking the time for a thoughtful answer...

You provided me with valuable information for the next time I am stopped (I have been, and an illegal search of my car was performed).

Not that this compares at all with your situations, but I was stopped a few years ago while driving my beat-up old '72 Chevy Nova (6 Cyl., Powerglide) through South Austin. The officer couldn't see a tail light; it was working (barely), but he was looking for something else. As he played his flashlight over the trash heap of my front seat, he spotted a partial box of .22s. "Are those bullets in there?" he asked rather unnecessarily, and I answered: "Yes. I hunt."

"Step out of the car."

What followed was a call for back-up, more flashlight work on the car's interior and a request to see the contents of my trunk. At first I thought: he has no right. But then it dawned on me that what was in my trunk would be of interest: 3 large boxes of mechanic's tools, some oil-soaked clothing, soggy boxes of auto-related fluids, and a general Sargasso sea of water, ATF and anti-freeze ebbing around a dripping rust hole; man, it stunk. So I said Yes.

I opened the trunk with a screwdriver (the core lock was long-gone), and stepped back and let the lid fling up. They stepped forward with lights, then quickly jerked up-right and turned away, shaking their heads.

"Okay, get that light fixed." They disappeared into the night.

[SteveM]

32. I think EVERYONE should "make his intentions known loud and clear... "

when carrying a weapon and stopped by the police. Instances of "shooting first and asking questions later," even if LEOs are laboring under racist stereotypes, might be ameliorated by following the advice you give.

If blacks (or anyone) are NOT "making intentions known loud and clear," why do you think that is the case?

[Glassunion]

29. I'm working on it...

"Black gun ownership, and legal concealed carrying of guns, is not on an equal footing with white gun ownership"

I own 17 different firearms, my wife has 3. How many more do I need to buy to level the playing field? This shit is getting expensive?

[old mark]

40. I am extremely left and have been shooting guns since age 10.

I DO own guns to protect my home and react against the "uprising" the RWers are constantly jerking themselves off about...I have read so many threats against leftists, Jews, progressives, minorities, etc bu these pinheads that I do not take them all as empty rhetoric.

I am very happy that so many Democrats -as evidenced by the responses on this forum-own and know how to use firearms despite those on the left who despise us for it. We are a necessary counterbalance to the idiot fascists who would take by force what they have lost through legal political means.

They really are not kidding when they say the hate us, and would love to do us all harm, and we are foolish to just ignore them.
rec.
mark

[sam sarrha]

13. yea.. i'm go'n to the Gun Show this weekend.. get a couple K of ammo. i got a FEG 9x18mm i think i

will sell it and get a Makarov p64, steel frame, but the P63 is a large Walther, a dream to hold. the muzzle flips a bit. i fixed the trigger ..18 lbs down to 4. brand new, for $170.. and a little work..learned a lot

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=347578&page=2
lots for under $180

this is a better gun as cheap as the p63
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=154831110#PIC


i like this one best.. lots of Mak's around.. all the eastern european countries that joined NATO now use the 9x19.. Bretta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarov_PM these are around $200.. finest Conceal carry.. for the price.

i got mine new for $340
https://www.berettausa.com/e2wProductGroupDetailDropDown.aspx?parentid=4100001490&parentLink=2100000084:3100001364:3100001368:4100001490#

i have this one too
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/M637.htm
the laser sight is wonderful.. essential for a cc gun.

i load with the Hydra shock jacketed hollow points
http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/pocket_dynomite/
but i think the first 2 rounds will be replaced with these
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/glaser-blue-12-shot-safety-25-acp-35-gr-gbsa-6-rds.aspx?a=119964

some wont go thru a house wall... but they are the worst thing you can be hit with.. it is possible to survive a JHP..even my 38 special 74gr jhp with 1475 feet per second only penetrates about 4-6 inches but that is over 500 foot pounds of impact, the Beretta is more with jhp the Mak' is around 450 with jhp.

i'm arming up because the Rethuglickicans will destroy civilization as we know it sooner now. it will be anarchy, total chaos.. we'll be better off if we were in Haiti when it falls here.

[PavePusher]

14. Sigh.

:tinfoilhat:

[Enthusiast]

15. Fascism will tolerate it

as long as the armed citizens help control left wing sentiment.

[safeinOhio]

17. Those days are now numbered, Tea Party has turned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x512018

[SteveM]

20. So far, "armed citizens" have not been called upon to "control left wing sentiment"...

Where have you seen this? I know thugs, gangs and corrupt LEOs have done this, from the union movement to apartheid. But armed citizens number over 80,000,000 and include a lot of "progressives."

Incidentally, most serious "left wing" types I know are armed; after all, you can't rail against "fascists," "authoritarians," "right-wing bullies" and the general end of the free world, and be taken seriously when you say "Oh! by the say, I'm in favor of gun-control." Kinda takes the sheen off a coffee house rant.

Eugene Debs was pro-2A.

[rrneck]

21. Heh, well said. nt

[Enthusiast]

24. Militias are

made up of a majority of white supremest, anti-government, Obama hating, right wingnuts types. Think Ted Nugent.

[SteveM]

33. Be that as it may, they aren't doing any shooting at me or my friends...

There may be a reason for that.

[Glassunion]

35. Uncle Ted

is not a racist... I've been to his house and he cooked us a fantastic dinner.

The rest I will give you... :)

[PavePusher]

37. From what I can discern (I've never met the man in person), Ted Nugent is a bigot.

He seems to hate racsist, stereotyping, ignorant, arrogant people.

And while I firmly disagree with some of his political positions, I certainly commend him for the above.

[safeinOhio]

39. I've meet Ted several times

One time he even went out of his way to come over and say hello. About 10 or 20 years ago he got carried away with himself. Hypocrisy, thy name is Ted.

[Euromutt]

30. If history is anything to go by...

... fascism is perfectly capable of tolerating certain parts of the population to be armed, specifically party members and the politically apathetic. However, fascism does not tolerate certain "undesirable" elements of society to possess arms. Like left-wingers, trade unionists, etc.

[atmame77]

41. Not one that's not controlled

Not one that's not controlled. Hitler had all males armed to the teeth(Army) but pretty much banned private gun ownership. A paradox.