Carrying a gun makes you a Giant Coward!!

[Virgil Cain]

Yeah that's right, I said it, now hear me out. I came across this forum when looking up another gun related issue and I have to say I was intrigued by a lot of the back and forth here, and I have to say I'm kind of shocked by the misinformed attitude a good amount of folks have about CCW permit holders, and I'd like to clear a few things up.

First of all, let me give you a little background...

I am a CCW holder and I carry a firearm at all times, in fact, most times I carry 2. (I like a BUG on my weak-hand side in case my right arm is pinned or injured, Murphy's law and all that.) I support the 2nd in its entirety. It seems to me that there are many on here (certainly not all) who believe that carrying a gun will all of a sudden turn you into Rambo. Some blood-thirsty lunatic waiting for someone to look at you the wrong way, or prowling the streets like Charles Bronson waiting for an excuse to show your heaters....ha!

Well my friends, that simply isn't the case. For anyone who carries and anyone thinking of carrying I'll offer the same wisdom I just gave my brother who recently applied for his permit. Carrying a firearm does not make you a tough guy. In fact, quite the opposite. It makes you more of a wimp, more of a coward, more of a pussy than you are without it! Why you ask? Out of sheer necessity!

Let's take an example:

Say you're walking down the street, minding your own business, and some guy, for whatever reason, starts f'ing with you. Start calling your mother a whore, makes passes at your girl, whatever. Now, if I'm unarmed, I might very well take issue with man. I might insult him back, defend my girl's honor, all that macho testosterony stuff some you like to make fun of. Maybe it comes to blows, maybe I win, maybe I don't. Most likely the worst outcome is a bloodied nose, a black eye, bruised ego... no biggie.

Now, say the same situation occurs, but this time I'm carrying. My response will be completely different. "My mother's a $2 whore? Why sir, you've paid entirely too much." Get the picture? The reason is because a lot more is now at stake. Whether you're in the right or wrong, if you in any way escalate a situation and a gun is pulled, you're toast. Are you willing to throw away your life, your family, your freedom over an insult? I certainly am not, and I will back down and look like a coward.

As a CCW holder this is one of the prices you must pay for the added security your firearm provides in a situation where your LIFE is potentially on the line, and it is a question every prospective CCW holder must ask themselves before making the decision to carry. Are you man enough to walk away? If not that's completely understandable, just make sure to leave the guns at home.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Virgil Cain]

4. Borderline crazy?

Why? Because I choose to possess the means to defend my life and the lives of my loved ones if the situation were to arise? Look, I don't want trouble, no one does. I wish the world were a place where we didn't have to concern ourselves with potential muggers, rapists, and just flat out crazies, but as we see time and time again, this is just not the world we live in.

Now I know that the chances of any one specific individual getting in a situation like the one above are extremely slim, but they do happen. What does carrying cost me? A little extra weight on my hip? I'm ok with that if I happen to be in the .0001% of the time (don't ask for a citation, I made that number up) where a life threatening situation occurs and my gun can save me or others, or at least give me a fighting chance.

The CCW permit process includes mental health checks. If you're prone to the crazy, you'll be denied a permit. Is there the potential that someone just snaps? Maybe, but highly unlikely. But if you're going to play "what ifs", What if you were driving down the road and "just went crazy". A nice sized SUV can take out quite a few people, but you're not suggesting banning drivers licenses are you? And you don't even have to have a clean mental health record to get one!

Side note, you don't know me. Not sure you're qualified to give me a "borderline" diagnosis, but if it makes you feel better, have at it.

[sharesunited]

6. You sound lucid at the moment. But your sanity dangles by the same thread anyone's does.

And I don't buy the premise of your original post.

You are walking around with the means to snuff out others-- conveniently, efficiently, and entirely at your whim.

I'm supposed to feel assured that you won't do it because of a very subjective calculation you've made that it wouldn't be worth it to you?

Not good. Not a good situation.

[Virgil Cain]

11. You call it a thread,

I like to think of it more as an industrial strength steel cable. Like I said, you don't know me, and I don't know you, so I won't presume to make assumptions about how your mental state waivers, but if you honestly think it's dangling that precipitously, that's probably another issue you should address with a professional, I'm not sure how much help this board will be.

You say I walk around to snuff out people at my whim, but I don't look at it that way. I walk around with the means to address a violent threat to my life. That was the point of my original post. A gun is tool to use as a last resort when you have no other options. Not something to make you tougher, not to show off, not to impose your will.

It's not an arbitrary, subjective calculation. I "don't do it", as you put, not because of a cost-benefit analysis I came up with, but because of a respect and reverence of human life, all human life, but particularly my own!. No one has the right to try and deny anyone their right to life. Simple morals, not sure how else to explain it. That said, however, everyone in this world unfortunately doesn't share that same reverence. There are those out there who would kill you for the change in your pocket, or even simply because they're bored. God-forbid I'm ever presented with a situation where I'm the target of one of these depraved individuals, I want to make sure I have every advantage afforded to me under the Constitution to make sure that I am the one who walks away from it. A good situation...absolutely not, but it definitely could be worse.

[RealityInSeattle]

23. Ahh but CCW permits have magical powers

as soon as someone is given one it guarantees they will never get depressed, their wife will never cheat, they will never lose their job, develop an alcohol or drug problem, get a terminal illness, be named in a lawsuit or any other thing that might cause a person to react emotionally or spontaneously or feel helpless or desperate like they have nothing to lose.

Apparently, there is a special operation where they open your head and insert a new robot hypothalmus and cerebellum and you get new powers of impulse and emotional control when they give your gun permit. Quite a bargain.

The fact is, CCW permit holder whip out their guns when they get denied a gas pump, when their kids don't get the ball enough during a soccer game, when they get cut off in traffic (they REALLY hate that and do that one ALL the time), when someone accidently bumps into them, when they go out to get drunk...use the google, it happens ALL the time.

Because guess what, a free weekend class and around $75.00 dollars to get your magic CCW (thats all the training it takes in a lot of states) does not undo 500,000 years of human evolution and emotional responses hardwired into our nervous system.

You are just as susceptible to emotions as every other human on the planet.

Except....you have a gun. Well, you actually say you carry 2 with you. Everywhere you go.

Ahh but you can guarantee future human behavior and that you do not have emotions.

Are you serious?

And you want us to treat you as though you are not a direct imminent threat to the rest of us out here?

Because you sat through a class shorter than traffic school?

Because you pay $75.00 every 3-5 years?

I fear the mentality of the people who frequently post pro-gun rhetoric up here a million times more than I do anything Al-Quida or a foreign government could ever do to me.

[X_Digger]

26. Do they protect you from giant strawmen?

Funny how 5M+ people have a concealed carry license, yet the incidence of them committing crimes at all, much less crimes with guns, is 5-8x less than the general public (depending on the crime and the state).

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

28. No... but Flamethrowers can protect you from giant strawmen.

And whats even better... flamethrowers are totally unregulated. SCORE!!

[SteveM]

29. I don't like to do this, but here is a case of genuine paranoia:

"I fear the mentality of the people who frequently post-pro-gun rhetoric up here a million times more than I do anything Al-Quida or a foreign government could ever do to me."

Actually, I don't like to throw around psychological terms; those terms having been so denigrated by the gun-controllers in this forum. But your statement reveals the real article. By way of counter "argument" to this line of "reasoning," I would say that I don't much fear what Al-Quida or foreign governments could do, and I don't much fear the mentality of ANYONE who posts on this and other threads.

Fear? Fear of internet postings? Or just more gun-control hyperbole? You are the best judge of that; either way, it does not reflect well on your character, reasoning power, OR your mental state.

[Virgil Cain]

38. Wow.

Where to begin? Let’s start with your laundry list of guarantees. Is it possible that on a given day I might feel a little blue, that my girl may cheat, that I may lose my job, sure. These are all pretty terrible occurrences and would undoubtedly cause an emotional response.

“You are just as susceptible to emotions as every other human on the planet”

Susceptible isn’t exactly the word I’d use. As a human I will have internal emotional responses to outside stimuli, good or bad, no denying this. I’m going to happy, sad, angry, jealous, loving, and the entire gamut. There is, however, a VAST difference between internal response and outward action. I do believe most people think before they act, it’s called self-control. I don’t need a magical robot hypothalamus or cerebellum to exercise it; my fragile human one seems to work just fine.

“Ahh but you can guarantee future human behavior and that you do not have emotions.”

No sir I cannot. I never made this claim. But what guarantees are in life really besides the inevitable death and taxes? You say the above situations might cause a person to lose it to put it bluntly, and here is where I think the crux of many of our disagreements will lie. I do not believe in limiting rights because of what people MIGHT do. I believe in taking action because of what certain individuals have done, like if someone actually does snap. You seem to have the Bush “pre-emptive strike” mentality.

Let’s say you’re driving down the road, someone cuts you off, and you just become so outraged you run the guy off the road and beat on his car with a golf club. Well sir, you have clearly demonstrated that you lack self-control and should not be allowed to carry. And when this occurs, the action should be taken against the individual who snapped, not the majority of the law-abiding society. The individual should lose his right to carry and go to jail and all the other consequences that come with his action.

Now before you start with the, “but if you had a gun you could shoot him!”, let me just pre-empt that with, yes, I know. I’ve seen some of the examples you posted. The fact of the matter is in a country as large as ours, isolated incidents like are bound to happen. It is sad and tragic, but also inevitable when dealing with a large enough scale. As far as your claim as to this happening ALL the time, now who’s being serious? I guarantee that the incidents of criminal violence perpetrated everyday by non-CCW holders far outnumber the incidents of a CCW holder suddenly snapping, yet somehow you feel this is the norm. Wouldn’t even be close.

We do not live in a Nerf world. Incidents like these are part of the price we pay for living in a free society. We could have cars with engine modifications that wouldn’t allow them to go over 55mph; we could outlaw sodium and trans fats in our food, and eliminate contact sports all together. I’m sure we’d all be much safer and live longer, but guess what, we like driving fast, French fries taste good, and it’s fun to watch football. It’s freedom. And I’ll take my chances in the world we live in rather than the padded room you suggest, and in the meantime, I’ll stay armed to increase my chances of survival in this “dangerous” place.

I also don’t claim to be qualified to carry a gun because of a weekend class. I’ve been doing this for a long, long time. My first firearm was wrapped up nice and shiny under the Christmas tree at the ripe old age of 7. My dad went out and got me my own brand new .22 rife and a bow to go with it. (That’d be a compound bow, not referring to his wrapping). But even better than that was the gift of his time that came with it. Time to teach me respect of firearms, responsibility and safe handling, and the supervision until he was sure I could be trusted. He always told me with great power comes great responsibility (I was devastated years later when I found out this was ripped from Spiderman) and this bleed over into other aspects of life, not just the handling of arms.

Now look. Carrying a gun is certainly not for everyone, kind of getting back to the point of the original post. If you feel you’re the kind of person with no control over their emotions by all means don’t carry. You would frighten me if you did! But for those of us who have gone through our lives showing we’re not subject to temper tantrums over life’s disappointments, but rather face them directly and rationally, CCW could be a thing to consider.

I’m sorry you fear my mentality for posting politically centered message about firearms in the Gun category of politically oriented forum. The audacity! (Even though you’re engaging in the same activity) Surely my frail mental state is slipping. I’m also sorry for the additional fear exercising my 2nd amendment causes you, but frankly, Its not my responsibility to make you feel warm and fuzzy. Maybe your shrink can, and have him check that hypothalamus for ya. (Just kidding bud)

[gorfle]

42. Statistics do not bear you out.

Statistics do not bear out your theory that CCW permit holders are as likely to commit crimes as anyone else.

Statistically, CCW permit holders have been shown to be many times, sometimes hundreds of times less likely to be involved in crime than non-CCW permit holders. They are even less likely to be involved in firearm crime. The rate of revocation for CCW permits is less than 2%.

The idea that "anyone could be a murderer" just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

The simple fact is most people who commit murder have an extensive prior criminal history, usually including violent crime.

http://www.cardozolawreview.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138:kates201086&catid=20:firearmsinc&Itemid=20

Thus it is no surprise that CCW-permit holders hardly ever commit violent crimes. They would have already been screened out of obtaining a CCW permit holder if they had the extensive criminal background that most murderers have.

[rd_kent]

50. This is the biggest load of unfounded shit I have ever read! HAHAHAHA!

[Pavulon]

51. So do those with Q clearance

they could snap at any second and arm fuse and fire a thermonuclear weapon.

I have gone through 2 SSBI checks. I have had access to information worth billions of dollars. I still retain access information worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

I have no inclination to be irrational. That said I can not drive to my inlaws house without 5 different set of firearms laws to deal with.

There are plenty of ways to create destruction and havoc. Why would a person who has knowledge of and access to explosives use a handgun?

That is why al-q uses over the shelf chemicals to make the stuff used to bomb busses in london.

[rrneck]

53. C'mon, tell the truth.

You work for Glock, don't you?

[SteveM]

27. I'm this way, so... EVERYONE must be this way! (cough) nt

[slackmaster]

32. Not everyone is as close to insane as you seem to believe you are

Deal with it.

[spin]

44. Reading through your posts, my advise to you is to NEVER own a firearm...

I believe that you feel that if you were to get a carry license and carry...you would be that dangerous person that you imagine the average person with a CCW to be.

Personalities differ significantly. If you are prone to experiencing anger management problems, abuse alcohol or drugs or live in a volatile relationship with a significant other, than guns are NOT for you.

If you seriously believe that your sanity dangles by a thin thread and everybody else is just like you, than guns are NOT for you.

For example, I've known many extremely jealous people in my lifetime. In all cases, it turned out that they were cheating on their partner and couldn't understand the partner might not suffer from the same demons as they did.

[X_Digger]

8. Ignore scaresunited, he's projecting his own tenuous grasp on sanity again..

He has such a dim view of humanity that he thinks people are one bad hair day from snapping.

Note to self: Never be in the same room as scares when the coffee runs out.

On another note, welcome to DU!

[Virgil Cain]

14. Thanks!

I'm glad to have found a forum where 2A issues can be discussed civilly without the extreme nationalistic,jingoistic slant that many of them have. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I just like a lot of colors on my palate.

[PavePusher]

36. That is what we have to deal with around here. Welcome to the club! n/t

[Hoopla Phil]

18. P-R-O-J-E-C-T-I . . .oh you know the rest.

You demonstrate it so well.

[proteus_lives]

19. Wow.

"If you're carrying a gun, you are already borderline"

You're such a bigot. Alert.

[rd_kent]

21. Youre funny!

[slackmaster]

31. More projection from sharesunited, plus an unwarranted broad-brush attack

:nuke:

[gorfle]

41. Hardly ever happens.

The idea that normally law-abiding people just "snap" in any meaningful numbers is a myth:

http://www.cardozolawreview.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138:kates201086&catid=20:firearmsinc&Itemid=20

Most people who commit murder have extensive prior criminal backgrounds which would exclude them from being CCW permit holders.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

60. Why would you call FBI agents and the Secret Service borderline crazy?

[Travis_0004]

2. A well armed society is a polite society

[safeinOhio]

5. Works when you have, you may

not escalate laws. Post is right on. There are still idiots that take and pass CCW class.

[sam sarrha]

13. my class has about 20 people from all socio-economic levels. all were exceptionally alert. in the

here in now.. out of the 90 people i work with maybe 3 or 4 would compare with them. 8 were women. half of them never shot a gun, but everyone passed with perfect grades and all scored very well at the range. everyone was very serious about the process, and had studied up before hand. most of the class was about the legal end. the instructor made it more than clear that anyone used lethal force there would be an investigation and most likely a grand jury would decide if charges would be made against you. i don't think anyone took any part of the training lightly.

i do not think the crazies you refer to are likely to take a permit class, they tend to avoid reality. the instructor made it clear that if he didn't think he wanted to certify anyone they would get a refund.

[safeinOhio]

16. I've taken the class in 2 states

1st was an open book test. 2nd, all the questions and answer were reviewed just before the test.. No one failed. At the range, one had to hit a 2 foot circle from 20 feet. Not 20 yards. No one failed. I felt that some, not all, needed more training and testing. Making the course and test a little harder might well weed out the few CCW violation that do happen.

[sam sarrha]

20. NC has a pretty good shooting test, people that are serious get more experience. some people didn't

really intend to carry all the time, i took the class because the state laws are ambiguous about transporting weapons. i wanted to avoid any problems. i used to be a parole officer... and the Rabies problem here.

i carry when i take the dogs out to pee. there is a coyote problem, rabid raccoons, there were 50 or 60 rabid animal attacks here last year in the county. when i was young i barely avoided a rabid dog attack. i shook for days. this summer a Coyote attacked the wife of the head of the agriculture dept in their back yard. there is a wooded area behind our house, lots of deer. low fence.. :hide:

[safeinOhio]

22. I'm with you on that

the only time I have used a gun in self defense was against a dog attack. I always carry when on walks and bike rides. Coon rabies is spreading west here in Ohio. I worry more about rabid animals than people. There is no reasoning with animals.

[spin]

39. Hitting a two foot circle at 20 yards ...

is target shooting. Target shooting is entirely different than self defense shooting.

You will face a lot of very serious questions from the authorities if you decide to shoot another individual at 20 yards.

Over 90 percent of gunfights occur within 21 feet. More than half of these occur within 5 feet.
http://attackproof.com/Gun-self-defense-and-combat-handgun-instruction

Target shooting does provide a solid foundation for self defense shooting. Most CCW classes recommend that you join a range and practice perfecting your skills. Many people who have a carry permit do follow that advise.

I knew an instructor at a range in Florida who had his CCW students fire rounds at a variety of ranges from 25 yards to five feet. He normally taught one on one and was more than willing to take the time necessary to help his students. The money spent taking one of his classes was an excellent investment.

I do agree that more time on the range should be required to get a carry permit.

[oneshooter]

49. The CCL permit in Texas

is a 10 hour class on CCL law, self defense law, violence prevention, what happens after a shooting. The teachers are qualified by the DPS. There are no open book tests. Photos and fingerprints are taken. After the classroom comes the firearms proficiency test. It consists of the following. 50 rounds fired. If you test with a revolver, you will be restricted to a revolver only. Test with a semi-auto and you can carry either one.

Course of Fire:

3 yard line - 20 shots:

1 shot in 2 seconds, 5 times
2 shots in 3 seconds, 5 times
5 shots in 10 seconds, once

7 yard line - 20 shots:

5 shots in 10 seconds, once
1 shot in 3 seconds, 5 times
2 shots in 4 seconds, once
3 shots in 6 seconds, once
5 shots in 15 seconds, once

15 yard line - 10 shots:

2 shots in 6 seconds, once
3 shots in 9 seconds, once
5 shots in 15 seconds, once


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[spin]

52. Sounds like a good course to me ...

what score do you need to qualify for the range portion?

[oneshooter]

56. To pass the tests

You need a 75% on the written and 70% on the shooting. My Mother, who is 78yrs young passed her shooting test with a 85%. And this was with a S&W M60 with a 3" bbl. Minimum caliber is 32, max is whatever you think you can pass with!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[spin]

64. My S&W Model 60 with a 3" barrel is one of my favorite revolvers...

The weight tames the recoil to an acceptable level even with .357 mag ammo. The sight radius is long enough to enable accurate shooting at a good distance such as 25 yards.

Your mother did great! I'm impressed.

[RealityInSeattle]

24. You should move to Darfur then..they must be the nicest people on earth.

or Rio De Jenero, Brazil

or Medaien, Columbia

or Moscow

Those should be some of the most polite places on earth.

Except you will probably just get shot.

[benEzra]

30. Hmmm, ultra-strict gun control in those places, and "you will probably just get shot."

Funny you don't mention Geneva instead...

[rd_kent]

33. Hahahaha!!! EPIC FAIL!!! All of those places have strict gun control!!! HAHAHA!

Yous is fail of epic proportions.

[Tejas]

37. or Seattle

According to the mayor there, it will soon be safer than Darfur.

[friendly_iconoclast]

45. Does Seattle have less violent crime than Geneva or Zurich?

If not, you fail.

[AtheistCrusader]

55. Sup.

Your friendly neighborhood CPL holder, checking in.

I love Seattle, don't you?

[oneshooter]

57. Been to Darfur, the people are polite, the bandits will slit your throat. n/t

[paulsby]

3. and carrying fire insurance makes me a fearful paranoiac!

after all, the chance of my house catching on fire is very very very small

[oneshooter]

48. Maybe a fearful pyromaniac!! n/t

[sam sarrha]

7. i drive a lot better too.. a friend with a CCW was stopped, told the cop he had a CCW and a loaded

gun on him.. the cop just said.., "Good, everyone should carry". then handed back his license and permit and walked away.

i just got a new Makarov P63 9mm rebuilt, stronger recoil and firing pin springs, lighter hammer spring, reshaped an polished the chamber ramp, i was a jeweler still have my tools, the action is nice now, the trigger was 22 pounds. and it jammed all the time.. i got it really cheap and put $12 in it..about $90 total. it is a Walther PPK clone re-chambered. but i like the Smith & Wesson 637 with the laser sight, the laser sight is essential if you carry. trained officers only hit what they are shooting at 15% of the time. laser sights are becoming required for law enforcement. it is entirely different

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/M637.htm

your attention never leaves the target.. targeting is instantaneous, the grip has a micro pressure switch, grip the gun, the laser comes on.. i go to the range nearly every week, its close. i only shoot a clip. half dozen rounds if the pattern is tight.. the laser sight tightened it way up. you can shoot from the belt line and group about 2" diameter. its very much worth the outrageous price.

[X_Digger]

10. 22lb trigger? Tell me that's a typo!

Dang, I'd need one of these for just that one finger...

[sam sarrha]

17. if you managed to pull it 3 times double action you wouldn't pull it 4 it hurt so bad.

http://olderthendirt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=reloading&action=display&thread=345

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=155098335#PIC

it is pretty normal on single action. they are eastern european military and police guns. since they joined NATO and went to the 9x19 Luger ammo there are a lot of these on the market. i got lucky and found one that someone had taken apart, lost stuff, and gave up on. it had only been fired a few times, it looks brand new. it is REALLY a comfortable gun to hold, it does kick a bit. but it is small and light. i thought my wife would like it, but now i don't think she'd like the recoil. i got her a 32 cal Beretta Tom cat, but the frame broke after 20 rounds.. F'n piece of crap, .. nice design tho..too bad

i have a Beretta 92FS i like but it is really big. i have a finger touch lock gun safe i keep everything in.

[oneshooter]

47. They are nice firearms, once you get the trigger pull and springs fixed.

However I am of the opinion that if I have to put a hole in someone, it will be as big as possable. That is why my preffered CCL guns are a SIG220 or a Colt LW Commander (series 70 of course). Preffered ammo is CCI Lawman 200gr JHP, aka "The flying Ashtray".
Loving Wife has her own LW Commander (also a 45), I had to get her one so I could get mine back!

Welcome to DU, sit back and have some fun here.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Tejas]

54. CZ82 > M63

*runs and hides*

[Naked_Ape]

58. almost

P63s are crap, laser sights are just slightly worse than useless, and both cops that looked at my CHL wrote the tickets anyway. Other than that I'm with you 100%

[pipoman]

61. I am of the opinion

that for target or sporting uses, gun modification is fun and perfectly acceptable. OTOH, for a defensive gun I believe it is ill advised. If the gun is used, and injures or kills someone there will be an investigation. Gun modifications make an otherwise difficult to prosecute self defense case harder to defend against, the manufacturer or their specifications will be useless in fact the manufacturer will not offer any defense of their product if it has been altered. I prefer to rely on the manufacturer's engineering expertise and their specifications if defending myself legally by buying a defensive gun which is manufactured with the characteristics I want without modification. I did once have a trigger job done on a S&W revolver with a particularly heavy trigger, but I sent it to S&W Custom Shop for the work, they test and keep records by serial # for any modifications. Just my $.02

edit..I also use good quality factory ammo, never reloads for defensive uses for the same reason. I use ammo commonly used by law enforcement with non-violent sounding names. I wouldn't use Black Talon ammo for no other reason than it sounds scary to someone who isn't familiar with these things as might be the case if there were a grand jury or a jury in general. Perhaps my opinions on this is based on 20 years of working as a criminal defense investigator..take away as many prosecution allegations or avenues for innuendo as possible.

[Naked_Ape]

63. Excellent advice. All should read your post.

I was advised in my CHL class never to carry reloads since in a criminal investigation or especially a civil action "reloaded" always equals "special hot ammo intended to cause extra death, grief, and mayhem."

[Euromutt]

9. I suppose it depends on what you call cowardice

If you take the view that discretion is the better part of valor (which personally I do), then in a way, it takes more courage to walk away from an unnecessary fight than to engage in it.

[Virgil Cain]

12. Very true.

Agree with you on this. The original post was directed towards the crowd maybe just starting to think about CCW, and how you need to be prepared to walk away whenever possible, not to escalate, despite how it may appear to outsiders. Pride can be a hell of a thing. I personally know a few individuals who just wouldn't be able to do this, and that's perfectly ok, but they shouldn't, and don't carry. "Know Thyself" as they say. Thanks for the welcome.

[rusty_rebar]

15. I liked the post.

[Glassunion]

25. You hit the nail on the head

I quite enjoyed your post.

Keep it up, and welcome to the DU

[slackmaster]

34. You're absolutely right, Virgil Cain, and anyone who has taken a self-defense class knows it

Using deadly force is the LAST thing a rational, informed person wants to do.

You only kill over something worth dieing for.

[burrfoot]

35. Great post, Virgil, and welcome to DU!

Although you may find the discussion here loses civility at times, I agree that it's great to have a forum where there are others who are Dem/Prog. and pro-RKBA.

If you keep an amused attitude at the antics of the (broad brush here) "antis," you'll have a ton of fun; and a lot of the posters here have a great deal of knowledge and real life experience regarding these issues.


:toast:

[spin]

40. I would say that carrying a firearm makes you a more polite and respectful individual...

not a coward.

I don't go looking for trouble and I always will try to defuse a situation by keeping MY anger under control. If I walk away from a fight, it may make me look like a coward to some, but to those in the know it shows I used good judgment.

However, I see your point. Excellent original post and followups.

Welcome to DU.

[Tim01]

43. So very true. nt

[tburnsten]

46. Virgil Cain I like your style N/T

[Naked_Ape]

59. Great post

The inflammatory subject line kept me back at first. It is those that carry but aren't afraid that worry me.

[GreenStormCloud]

62. ABSOLUTELY!! Carrying concealed means you AVOID conflict.

I avoid trouble. If trouble happens, it will have to come to me.