Thank God for guns video

[safeinOhio]

Sorry if this has already been posted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0D78JtxmqI

I love Shatner.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[safeinOhio]

2. No problem, this is America

and Danny can afford a great lawyer.

[spin]

6. Welcome to DU (n/t)

[Tim01]

3. Ha Ha. Awsome. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

4. Funny, but extremely dangerous in real life.

Another case of TV writers not knowing anything about guns and shootouts. Shooting the robber in the foot leaves him perfectly capable of shooting Shatner's character. His best chance is to try for a shot in the shoulder of the gun hand. The bullet would paralyze that arm, causing the crook to drop the gun.

Shatner leaves the scene. That is a felony, unless he is going to get help.

[safeinOhio]

5. Why in the world would you expect TV writers

to know anything about shootouts. Their job is to entertain with a story. This short makes a great story. You guys are really starting to scare me. Do you have to have a "gun shootout correctness litmus test" to every thing? Chill out and get a few more hobbies.

[spin]

7. The clip was funny but dangerously misleading ...

Permit holders often review and criticize incidents.

In the first place to me, the attacker looked like all he wanted was watches and wallets. They can be replaced. In Shatner's place I would have turned over my belongings and and if the attacker left, no big deal.

But if you suspect that the attacker intends to kill you, then you don't want to let that happen.

One of the more important things to remember in a close gun fight is to move out of the line of the opponents gun muzzle, his line of attack. A quick side step to the left and slightly forward while you draw your weapon would accomplish this. I would also push the the attacker's gun hand with my left hand and possibly grab and hold his wrist while I fired my weapon into his center body mass.

Shooting the prep in the knee and his left and right foot, might get you killed and there's a good chance in many states that you would face an expensive lawsuit.

[Tim01]

9. I don't think anybody told you it's just a TV show. nt

[spin]

12. I knew that, and I also know that many people get really stupid ...

ideas from TV and the movies.

Real life is different from TV or the movies.

[safeinOhio]

16. No one would watch the show if it was boring.

I'm a permit holder and I don't think any other holders get their tactical information from entertainment shows. Well idiots might that hold autos sideways gangster style. Not serious self defense people. Lighten up for Christ sake.

[spin]

23. I rarely watch TV shows or movies that involve firearms ...

I'll bet you can guess why.

[Euromutt]

25. It's not the permit holders I'm concerned about

What perturbs me is that there may be any number of people who don't own firearms, aren't familiar with firearms or anyone who does own them, and get the idea that Denny Crane is a realistic representation of your typical gun owner, or at least CCW permit holder.

[rrneck]

10. A lot of people carry a fake wallet with canceled credit cards

just to hand over in case they get mugged. Not a bad idea.

[spin]

13. My Judo instructor used to recommend that. (n/t)

[Tim01]

14. You may want to revisit your training.

I own a combat range,the moves you suggested are not what I would do.

Although your judo background would probably serve you well, because you would probably end up on the ground struggling for control. The judo would give you a huge advantage. I would prefer to stay on my feet.

Sort of like a quick, nimble aircraft that tries to drag a bigger faster enemy aircraft close to the ground where it can make use of its agility.

[spin]

15. True, there are different approaches some of which will work ...

others which have disadvantages.

I would be interested in how you would handle the situation.

I'm always willing to learn something new.

[Tim01]

17. Like you said, there are different solutions.

I've seen that if you grab a persons wrist they still have plenty of movement to shoot you. So I would grab the gun itself. And what often happens at this point is good guy goes for his own gun, bad guys sees it, and grabs good guys gun, same as his own gun is grabbed. Temporary stalemate, and the fight goes to the ground. This is where your judo skills(which I don't have) would come in.
Personally, if I got ahold of his gun and had a free hand, I would prefer go for his head with my free hand,driving forward, either snapping his head back and down and bouncing it off the concrete, or make use of my fingers as long as they are so close to his eyes. It might be good to start this whole procedure with "Oh god. My heart. I'm having a heart attack".

If the gun grab is inside to outside, I would go with the above.
If the grab is outside to inside, I might be more inclined go for the gun since his gun hand is now across his own body and he is going to have a harder time getting to me with his other hand.

Either way I'm going to go forward to try to get him off balance, give him something else to thing about while I am working my plan.


This is all hopeful of course. Things don't always go according to plan. But it is mostly based on experience of undercover narcotics officers who actually have had to survive. And they are the first ones to say that it all has an element of luck. Bad guys get lucky, too.

[safeinOhio]

19. Here is how I learned it.

Holding hands up in front, garb a hold of muggers gun trying to grab either cylinder or slide to disable use of gun. At the same time use what is called an entry kick to the shin. This distracts the gun man and make it possible to snatch the gun away from him(or her). You can always act nervous and drop the wallet to distract also.

[spin]

22. Grabbing the gun would give you more leverage ...

and if a pistol, you might be able to take it out of battery or disable it by partially ejecting a round by pulling the slide back. If it's a cocked revolver you might be able to get your small finger in front of the hammer and if the revolver is not cocked, a firm grip on the cylinder should prevent it from firing.

Most of the training I got was for disarming a person with a handgun at close range. At the time I took the course, concealed carry permits were not easily available in my state.

I've tried to do some research on what to do if you are caught in a situation portrayed by the video and you are armed.

Obviously the first thing to do is give the prep your wallet if you seriously believe that it's all he is after. Your money and your credit cards and license can always be replaced and your life can't. This was the first advise the judo instructor gave us. (I should point out that the class was actually a jujitsu course for self defense. It combined elements of judo, karate and jujitsu. The instructor had belts in all three.)

I can find a lot of videos on the net showing techniques for disarming individuals with handguns. None quite show what I was trained. The first and most important move was to get the out of the line of fire by a slight forward side step. The second I described as a wrist grab but I didn't include that you place your thumb on the center of the attacker's gun hand to prevent him from turning the weapon toward you. Then you grab the gun with your other hand and twist it away from the attacker. It's a simple and very quick procedure but hard to describe. Slightly different techniques are used if he is left handed or if he is to your side or behind you.

I carry a S&W Model 642 38 special in my front right pocket in a loose fitting pocket holster. It's extremely easy to draw quickly as I don't have to fumble with a shirt or a regular tight holster. If I were to use it in a situation like the video portrayed, once I was safely out of the way of the muzzle of the attacker's weapon, I would use it as a belly gun. (Assuming that I didn't simply choose to disarm the attacker as I was trained, which in reality is what I'm most likely to do.)

Over the years, I've lost a lot of the skill that I learned and with a bad hip and back, I am nowhere near as mobile as I once was. There's a damn good chance that I would fail at my attempt, but I would only use such tactics if I truly felt there was no other choice. You don't lose much by trying to survive if you are going to get killed anyway.

I'm always open to new techniques. As I said, I can see advantages to your approach of grabbing the gun rather than the wrist. Still you often do what your were trained for.

[Euromutt]

21. Much as I enjoy "Boston Legal," the writers are utterly clueless with regard to firearms...

...and even more so when it comes to the people who own and carry them. I shudder to think how many people base their idea of the "typical" gun owner on a fictional character (or should I say "caricature"?) like Denny Crane, with his cavalier disregard for Cooper's Four Rules (almost as if the people writing the part never heard of Jeff Cooper, even though Denny most certainly would have) and the law governing use of lethal force (remarkable for a lawyer, even one with "mad cow").

[spin]

24. Firearm knowledge is not rocket science ...

it would be nice if the writers would do just a little research.

[ManiacJoe]

8. This one is almost as good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpgL5kuBpMA&NR=1&feature=fvwp

[pneutin]

18. This one is more indicative of a real world scenario

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeNPJ0fgWVY

[Glassunion]

20. This one a great social essay on gun control

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLjNJI54GMM&NR=1

[proteus_lives]

11. Funny video.

Always been a Shatner fan.

But in real life, you shoot center mass.

Shooting at feet, hands or weapons is movie/tv bullshit.