Those NJ people sure do love their guns!

[Township75]

Heavy firepower hidden in park

Banned assault rifle, ammo in bag, cops say


Saturday, December 13, 2003


By Michaelangelo Conte
Journal staff writer

Jersey City police found a fully automatic assault rifle hidden in Bayside Park on Thursday, the second such find in the city park in less than two years.

SNIP

"A fully automatic machine gun is an exception compared to most weapons found on the street. It is an extremely dangerous weapon even as a semiautomatic rifle, and on the streets a fully automatic AK-47 could be worth to $1,200 to $1,500."

AK-47s and similar weapons cannot be owned legally in New Jersey, and are on the list of federally banned assault weapons.


http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/index.ssf?/base/news-2/1071313811117650.xml

Wow, people in Jersey are willing ot pay $1,200-$1,500 for a gun!

[MrSandman]

1. One would have to pay $200

to the gov't to legally own this weapon, if it was manufactured before 1986(year may be off by 2 or 3, I'm not an auto collector). If manufactured after that date, it cannot be owned legally.

[AJjer_Politics]

13. One would have to pay several thousand...

Hmmm... to legally own one of these you would not only have to pay the federal tax of $200, and have to get one made and registered befoe 1986, but you would have to pay anywhere from $7,000-10,000 depending upon type and condition.

Legally owned and registered machineguns have never been used in a violent crime.

Illegally converted machineguns have been used in very few.

The truth is, no matter how you feel about guns, neither illegal fully-automatic weapons or the banned "Assault Weapons" are, or have ever been, prevelent in crime in this country.


Also, what does it have to do with the gun industry?

Yeah, I'm sure some gun manufacturer sold the illegal MG to a random thug. Especially seeing as how there are no strictly US-based manufactureres of Kalashnikov-type assault rifles...

[RoeBear]

2. Sounds like the Easter Bunny...

...has been visiting NJ.

Maybe we should call him the Gunny Bunny.

[MrBenchley]

7. Sounds more like the corrupt gun industry

is up to its usual crap.

[slackmaster]

3. That seems awfully steep for an illegal AK

The last price I saw quoted for California was $500, and even that is a lot higher than the world market.

AK-47s and similar weapons cannot be owned legally in New Jersey, and are on the list of federally banned assault weapons.

And the writer didn't bother to check the facts here. A fully automatic weapon cannot be on the list of federal AWs.

[alwynsw]

4. Everything costs more in NJ

Even their property tax rate is about 500% of the rate here. No exaggeration.

[Fescue4u]

5. A legal full auto ak-47

Can be had in most non facist states.

But it'll run you about 5 to 10k

[MrBenchley]

6. Imagine that...

A thug with an assault weapon...who'd have guessed that a criminal would want one?

Tell us, did you really think this makes a good argument for legalizing these? Guess that's RKBA "logic." No wonder you guys think Mary Rosh is a real scientist.

By the way, wasn't it only a couple weeks ago that the RKBA crowd was assuring us that these were almost impossible to convert to full auto? It sure as hell WAS.

Guess that was just more RKBA horseshit, to go with the bogus Thomas Jefferson quotes and Bwana Dick Cheney's sportsmanship.

[slackmaster]

8. Nice bunch of bullshit, MrBenchley

If the article describes the weapon accurately then it most certainly was NOT an assault weapon under federal or state law.

Federal definition:

"The term "semiautomatic assault weapon" is defined to include 19 named models of firearms and semiautomatic rifles, semiautomatic pistols, and semiautomatic shotguns..."

Source: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm

New Jersey state definition:

"A semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following..."

Source: http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_ag2.html - Official searchable site for NJ statutes appears to be down at the moment. In any case, fully automatic weapons do not fit either definition. Anyone who says otherwise is misinformed, including the author of the article at the root of this thread.

MrBenchley pondered:

Tell us, did you really think this makes a good argument for legalizing these?

Straw Man. Nobody here is arguing that fully automatic weapons should be freely available to the general public.

By the way, wasn't it only a couple weeks ago that the RKBA crowd was assuring us that these were almost impossible to convert to full auto?

Spurious claim, not supported by the evidence so far presented here. Nobody except MrBenchley has suggested that the rifle in question was ever semiautomatic. MrB - Did you pull that out of your ass or is there some other source you'd like to share with us?

Not only that, but nobody here has ever said it was "almost impossible" to convert a semiautomatic wespon to fully automatic. That is another Straw Man from MrBenchley. What we've said is that it is not a trivial operation; in no case is the conversion just a matter of dropping in parts that are comercially available. MrBenchley seems to be repeating propaganda. I see no evidence that he has any real knowledge of gunsmithing or machine shop operations.

MrBenchley wants us to believe that illegal automatics are a major problem in crime - But the ATF agent quoted in the article said it was very unusual to see one. Why do you suppose he said that, MrBenchley? Who should we believe, a law enforcement professional who specializes in firearms, or some vague authorless anti-gun propaganda?

I happen to be somewhat familiar with the procedure for converting a semiautomatic AK variant to full auto. You'd need a machine shop with heat-treatment facilities and some advanced metalworking skills in order to properly make the required modifications to the receiver. Any effort less than doing it right would probably result in a useless pile of parts. The time and effort required would be worth a lot more than the street price of an illegally imported automatic rifle.

[Township75]

9. Imagine that,

"A thug with an assault weapon...who'd have guessed that a criminal would want one?"

Read the article, they found the weapon in a park not with a thug


"Tell us, did you really think this makes a good argument for legalizing these? Guess that's RKBA "logic." No wonder you guys think Mary Rosh is a real scientist."

Tell us, where does anyone except you talk about legalizing "these"
Looks like you couldn't find anything wrong with the article so you hope to spin up a position to attack...LAME!

Happy Holidays Benchley!

[MrBenchley]

10. Back to ignore with you, town....

Clearly, anyone who wants to pretend this criminal knew where the assault weapon was by psychic vibrations or the like, and who also wants to pretend he's not posting this as an attack on NJ's eminently sensible assault weapons ban, isn't worth wasting time on.

[slackmaster]

11. The only one whose pretending anything is you, MrBenchley

Pretending that the federal or New Jersey assault weapons bans have anything at all to do with fully automatic weapons like the one described in the article. If you really don't know any better I would submit that your participation in this discussion contributes nothing of value.

Oh wait, maybe MrBenchley has me on Ignore.

Rotate the pod please, MrBenchley.

Rotate the pod please, MrBenchley.

[Withergyld]

12. try again

"NJ's eminently sensible assault weapons ban,"
How can a law that infringes on the Constitutional right of Militia members to keep and bear Military type Arms as guaranteed by the 2nd Ammendment be considered sensible??