The "Modern Sporting Rifle" is the new name for an assault weapon...

[spin]

Rambo Rifles for Weekend Hunters
The "Modern Sporting Rifle" is a hot seller. Please, just don't call it an assault weapon

As heavily armed U.S. troops deployed in the Middle East remain in the news, the military-style semiautomatic rifle has become a hot seller in the civilian market back home. Most major manufacturers have launched new models.

Sturm Ruger (RGR), one of the largest American gunmakers, introduced the SR-556 last May. It retails for about $2,000 and features a flash-suppressor, telescoping stock, pistol grip, and three 30-round magazines. It looks like the weapons that U.S. soldiers use to shoot Taliban insurgents.

"This is the one the younger generation wants," says Ruger spokesman Ken Jorgensen. "It's not their dad's gun or their granddad's gun." That's the sales pitch—and a source of controversy.

Even within the ranks of hunters and other gun enthusiasts, some protest the pursuit of deer with a modified form of the basic U.S. military weapon. The touchstone for this debate remains a February 2007 blog post by legendary hunter Jim Zumbo. "Maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity," Zumbo wrote on the Outdoor Life Web site. Gun owners erupted. Outdoor Life excised his online comments and parted company with the columnist.

***snip***

The solution, Sanetti says, is to rebrand the weapons as "modern sporting rifles," or MSRs. In an online campaign, his organization points out that MSRs are durable, reliable, and use ammunition similar to that used with more traditional rifles. "It won't be long before people call one of these 'ol' Betsy,'" the narrator of an NSSF video says as he cradles a semiautomatic. Americans spend about $2.5 billion a year on guns; precise figures aren't available on semiauto rifles.

***snip***

The modern sporting rifle, assuming the label sticks, traces its roots to the M-16 that first saw combat in Vietnam. The main difference between the military weapon and its civilian counterpart is that the Pentagon's version has the capacity to fire bursts of bullets with a single pull of the trigger. The cosmetically similar MSR fires only one round with each trigger pull.

***snip***

Will the MSR designation mollify old-school backwoodsmen? Zumbo predicts it will. Reached at his home in Cody, Wyo., he says he's now used to other hunters carrying what he still calls "black guns."
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_10/b4169060665633.htm

An Intro to the AR-Style Rifle

Black guns often get a bum rap. They can look a bit menacing, and their configuration and controls are radically different than those found on traditional sporting firearms. But the hunter who automatically dismisses AR-style rifles as legitimate sporting guns would be doing himself a major disservice. Why? Because the AR is one of the most capable, adaptable, and appealing firearm platforms on the market today. And these characteristics are helping it gain traction in the civilian market in its semi-automatic-only form.

***snip***

Over the past 50 years manufacturers have taken advantage of the gun’s modularity to attach optics and accessories, add new operating systems, allow larger chamberings, and even create civilian-legal semi-automatic-only versions. These guns have proved capable and popular with shooters of all stripes, especially varmint hunters. And recent developments have expanded the platform to big-game hunters as well.



This is because the qualities that make AR rifles so successful as a military design also make them highly capable as hunting firearms. Many models boast sub-MOA accuracy right out of the box, with some variants featuring performance that rivals that of custom target rifles.
http://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/hunting/2009/05/fs-picks-25-best-ar-style-rifles

So much for another assault weapons ban.

[NightWatcher]

1. quick, piss your pants... a scary LOOKING gun

it's just a basic ar 556 receiver with an collapsible stock and hand guard with picatinny mounts.

[cliffordu]

2. Yep.

[razorman]

5. Utilizing the same basic technology that's been in use for over 100 years.

Semi-autos are nothing new. But sure, let's outlaw the scary-looking ones.

[Glassunion]

3. Heaven forbid you want to be deadly accurate when hunting...

Not to mention to be able to quickly fire off an accurate follow up shot if needed.

It's all cosmetic. It's like saying that Maballine turns women into "assault women".

[ET Awful]

4. If you want them marketed as sporting rifles, it would probably be advisable to

avoid words like "infantry" and "tactical" in the model names.

Just sayin' is all.

[Pavulon]

6. Those add 10%. Calling anything tactical (flashlights, etc)

just means they cost more than the equally effective cheaper variant. $2000 for a stoner rifle is absurd. The milspec M4 is something like $750, maybe less. cant remember.

[X_Digger]

11. Though that one (Ruger)

Has a piston, rather than DI, so that ups the price.

But yah, I can build one from scratch for $550, buy a DPMS basic rifle for $750.

[benEzra]

18. It also comes with a very expensive rail system, Troy BUIS, and whatnot

that would add several hundred dollars over a standard-handguard model. Ruger is aiming a bit upmarket, figuring (probably rightly) that the low end of the market is pretty saturated, and its piston-driven competition is almost all in the $1500-$2000 range, I think.

[DissedByBush]

37. $2,000 for a Stoner isn't bad

If you're putting that extra money into a highly accurized example.

In fact, good sub-MOA ARs tend to run around $2,000.

This $2,200 puppy even comes with a sub 1/2 MOA guarantee:



It doesn't help that a match-grade upper costs more than a standard complete AR-15, but accuracy usually costs $$$.

But I have seen absurd examples, the whole thing covered with rails, and everything "tactical" you could imagine attached.

[benEzra]

16. "Sporting" is (IMO) a stupid term that is used primarily by shooters over 50.

I am not a "sportsman" (not to mention that a third of U.S. gun owners are women), and while I shoot competitively and recreationally, my rifle is a rifle, not a "sporting arm" or whatever.

[Euromutt]

42. Can't say I disagree

We (as in, the regulars on this forum) have had discussions about this before, but a quick flip through a Cabela's catalog indicates that hunting is by no means synonymous with sport, what with the trail cameras, game feeders, horny doe pee and all the other stuff designed to enable you to bag your kill within three minutes of the season opening. Don't get me wrong, I don't object to anyone hunting for food in as efficient a manner as possible, but let's not pretend there's any "sport" involved. That said, you can certainly involve an element of sport in your hunting (e.g. by stalking game, rather than coaxing them to you with bait) but that is entirely independent of your choice of hunting weapon.

And while I will acknowledge that there are sporting uses for the AR platform, particularly in target configurations, let's not pretend for instant that a large percentage (probably a large majority) of ARs aren't purchased primarily as defensive weapons (e.g. in the event of a breakdown in civil order in the wake of a natural disaster). Trying to pretend "hey, it's a sporting rifle" is obviously dishonest.

[old mark]

7. Very amusing - the anti's love the name game - "Saturday Night Specials"

"Assault Weapons" etc, and have played it for decades, now get upset by modernization of commercial firearms.

It is the 21st century, and probably time for features developed in the 1940's to be used in commercial rifles. Remember all those old fashioned wood rifle stocks killed trees....no dead trees here.

mark

[paulsby]

lol and talk about a classist snipe ... "saturday night specials"

SNS's were just cheap handguns. iow, handguns that lower income people could AFFORD.

god forbid somebody who doesn't have a lot of disposable income be able to actually afford a gun to defend themselves.

not to mention that let's face facts : african americans are disproportionately poorer than whites AND disproportionately significantly more likely to be victims of violent crime.

demonizing inexpensive handguns needs to be understood with the classist and racist (if by result, if not by intent) implications

[old mark]

40. "Junk guns" was another-you are right. If middle class and above have guns,

well that's one thing...But the POOR? Who knows what they would DO...

Ask Diane Finestein with her .357 magnum...OK for her, not for you or me.


mark

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[derby378]

9. I'll pass on the proposed rebranding

It's a rifle, plain and simple.

[DissedByBush]

10. Deer hunting?

The 5.56 is a touch on the small side for hunting deer.

[X_Digger]

12. Well, as the articles point out..

The AR platform has all kinds of caliber variants these days.

[Callisto32]

13. 6.8 SPC is right in the butter zone, though.

[benEzra]

15. There are plenty of AR's in heavier calibers...

including .308, like this one:



That's a Remington R25 in .308 Winchester.

[DissedByBush]

19. Now that's a good long-range deer round

But the article was about 5.56 and most people buy them 5.56.

Good varmint round though.

[benEzra]

22. Well, the hook for the story was the Ruger SR-556...

but it did discuss the broader issue of deer hunting with modern-looking rifles, and most of those will be the larger-caliber models. Only a few states allow deer hunting with .223/5.56, AFAIK.

One new cartridge (that isn't even widely available yet) that I think shows a lot of promise is the .30 Remington AR. It gives near-.308 ballistics (at the lighter end of .308 bullet weights) but works with a standard AR-15 lower, not the larger AR-10/SR-25 lower. Meaning, an owner of a 5.56x45mm AR could just buy a .30 RAR upper and have a very capable deer rifle.

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/remington-introduces-new-30-remington-ar-cartridge/

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/RS_30remingtonar_200904/

[DissedByBush]

36. Looks interesting

Except the ballistic coefficient, way below the .308 for the same approximate round.

[benEzra]

38. Yeah, the bullets are shorter and stubbier...

the .30 Remington AR can't handle very long bullets because it cuts in on the case capacity too much. The .308 has more case volume to play with.

Still, for a cartridge that will feed through a .223-sized magwell, it's a pretty darn good compromise, I think.

[SteveM]

43. Yep. When chambered in .260, .308 and others. nt

[benEzra]

14. Oh, brother. This might have been news ten years ago...

As heavily armed U.S. troops deployed in the Middle East remain in the news, the military-style semiautomatic rifle has become a hot seller in the civilian market back home. Most major manufacturers have launched new models.

Oh, brother. This might have been news ten years ago. And the headline "Rambo Rifles"??? Pull yourself out of the 1980's, dude...

The AR-15 platform has been the top selling centerfire rifle in America for, what, a decade now? And WTF do U.S. troops in the Middle East have to do with non-automatic civilian rifles that the military doesn't use?

The term "modern sporting rifle", while accurate, is just what one guy thinks modern-looking civilian rifles should be called. Personally, I despise the terms "sporting _____" and "sportsmen" when applied to firearms and shooters. They're just rifles. Modern-looking rifles, if you will, but ditch the 1950's Field and Stream terminology.

[jeepnstein]

17. MIne's just called an AR15.

That's much more accurate when describing it.

[virginia mountainman]

20. "Rambo rifle"? what a dunder head..

Everyone knows, the M60 medium machine gun, was Rambo's preferred weapon..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DrA4G48Jr0&feature=related



More evidence of an typical Anti, doing ZERO research before going to print..

[benEzra]

26. I'll bet a lot of younger shooters...

would read that headline and think "who the hell is Rambo"?

The 1980's called; they want their meme back.

[ananda]

21. So I guess that means that..

.. humans are fair game now.

[spin]

23. Did you forget the sarcasm thingie ...

or do you seriously believe that it's OK to hunt humans.

[X_Digger]

24. All rifles were originally designed to kill people..

Even your granddad's bolt action rifle.

So what makes you think anyone's espousing shooting people when talking about firearms originally designed 50 years ago based on 100+ year old technology?

[benEzra]

25. Huh?

Rifles (including modern looking ones) are the least misused of all firearms.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_20.html

Check out the "Rifles" column in that chart, and compare it to total murders. Heck, compare it to the "fists and feet" column or the "knives" column.

FWIW, the old-style bolt-action deer rifles---the ones the more modern styles are gradually replacing---were originally developed in the late 1800's/early 1900's to kill human beings at extreme ranges, and are still used by modern militaries as sniper rifles.



That doesn't mean that grandpa's old Remington bolt-action is secretly meant for "human hunting."

[cowman]

27. Awwwwwwwww

did someone wake on the wrong side of the bed. Why would you say a dumbass thing like that? Nobody here has ever advocated hunting humans

[Hoopla Phil]

28. I LIKE it. Recommended.

[MichaelHarris]

29. There's always this

Investigators found ten firearms inside the trailer; six handguns and four rifles. Two of the rifles were believed to be used in the shootout. One of the rifles is an AR15 with a scope, containing a 30-round magazine and there were six magazines in the trailer; three loaded and three empty.

http://www.cbs47.tv/news/local/story/Minkler-Shooting-Suspect-Identified-as-Rick-Liles/tfQ8O5x7eEm_ki677vdptg.cspx

[Pavulon]

30. 243 is only chambered in bolt action. Not high powered

but will kill a person. Bolt action rifles are hunting rifles, the 243 is a hunting round. What is your point.

Going to ban bolt action rifles?

[MichaelHarris]

31. Are you purposely

reading around the AR-15 part or just ignorant?

[Pavulon]

32. Who fucking cares, in other news Bud Light consumed by drunk drivers

kills dozens tonight. We MUST ban bud light right now, to save the children. Criminal act, criminal responsible. Simple.

[MichaelHarris]

33. hahahahahaha

you post a feel good post about the pretty gun and when someone posts the same gun used in shooting police officers you get mad. Welcome to the real world.

[Pavulon]

35. No thats just the world. You know the one where you are responsible for your actions

not a gun, not alcohol, or drugs. You, you own your actions. Only a fucking moron would blame a gun for a criminal act. Umm, its miller's fault I crashed my car into a family of 6. Yea, lets go with that.

[SteveM]

44. The sound of your record skipping.

People can do a little minor polishing on their debate/rhetoric skills when you are around, but they can't get too serious because you aren't.

[PavePusher]

34. Seriously, why does the style/model/calibre/color...

of the weapon matter? Is someone shot with a red-trimmed AR in 5.56mm any more or less wounded/dead than someone shot with a .223cal bolt-action with a walnut stock?

Shouldn't the focus be on intent of the person?

[benEzra]

39. Because black colored rifles with handgrips that stick out are inherently Sinful.

It doesn't matter how rarely they are misused, or that they are used to murder fewer people than handguns, shotguns, knives, clubs, shoes, or bare hands, these are THE DEBBIL'S GUNZ, A-MEN. At least according to the VPC/MSM catechism.

Of course, the FBI stats on homicide and law-enforcement-officer murders don't support the Small Caliber Black Rifles Will Kill Us All meme, but you're not supposed to look at that.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_20.html

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2008/data/table_27.html

[NewMoonTherian]

41. Long guns...

are used in a tiny portion of firearm crimes compared to handguns and are more useful for hunting purposes, and gun control supporters aren't getting any traction at all in restricting handguns(look at the new Brady scorecard). What do you think you can accomplish by attacking long guns right now?

You generally have some good insights, but I just don't think you're picking the right battle here. For the sake of argument, however, I will make a concession: AR15 rifles are capable of injuring or killing human beings, and have been used to do so.