McDonald question on illegal immigrants for the legal gurus

[Jackson1999]

From what I understand, the P& I clause deals with rights of citizens, and Due Process applies to all people. So, if McDonald is incorporated under Due Process, does that mean that people who are here illegally would have 2A rights as they do rights of free speech, etc.?

[provis99]

1. of course! what an absurd question.

The constitution applies to everybody, not just American citizens.

[X_Digger]

3. Not all of it, at least not right now..

Courts have applied _some_ of the provisions of the constitution and bill of rights to non-citizens, but not 100%.

(Do undocumented aliens have the right to vote?)

[Jackson1999]

4. Right but,...

To my understanding, all of the rights that have been incorporated under due process do apply to illegal aliens.

Just killing time until the big event ;-)

[X_Digger]

7. Lol, same here.

Gonna hit the range this weekend if the weather warms up.

[X_Digger]

2. Theres the rub..

If it's a fundamental right of 'the people', and US v. Verdugo-Urquidez / Wong Wing v. US set the precedent as anyone in our jurisdiction.. it's possible.

Found an interesting paper from what looks like a sheriff in Okaloosa, FL.

http://www.sheriff-okaloosa.org/Immigration/Do%20Illegal%20Aliens%20Have%20Constitutional%20Rights.pdf

[spin]

5. Very interesting paper. (n/t)

[dashrif]

6. Some

one who is in this country illegally will not get far buying a firearm from a ffl
A yes in 11.b-11.k is a no go for transfer

sorry for the big post

[oneshooter]

12. 11d and 11k

11d "Are you a fugitive from justice? If you are here illegally then "yes" you are a fugitive.

11k "Are you an alien illegally in the United States? If you are then the answer is "yes".

If you lie on this form then you have committed a felony. Punishable with up to 10 years in CLUB FED. No time off for good behaver!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Euromutt]

14. Just 11.k.; not 11.d.

"Fugitive from justice" means that law enforcement is aware of your identity and has a warrant for your arrest, and you are actively trying to evade that arrest.

[SteveM]

17. Particularly onerous is Question e:

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

This subjects one's constitutional right to a failed social engineering policy called the War on Drugs. This is a low threshold by which to deny a right, and that threshold constantly shifts as new "controlled substances" are added to the list. Add in the vagaries of what constitutes "addiction," and a right can be denied. Note also that addiction to a non-"controlled substance" (alcohol) does NOT disqualify one from owning a firearm. Finally, if you lie about your answer to "e," that in itself is a felony and subjects the applicant to arrest AND firearm forfeiture. ATF Form 4473 has always had the stench of old-time prohibition politics surrounding it: only "Marijuana" is specifically cited by name.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

8. Under Title 8 SS1325 of the U.S.C. - illegal immigration is a felony.

I would have to guess no on 2A rights for illegal immigrants. My personal feelings: If somebody cannot even respect a countries immigrations, they have no business being trusted with deadly weapons in society.

Also, they have no legal way to purchase guns. In a private sale (where allowed) the seller must only verify the buyer is a state-resident and of legal age to posses a firearm. Are illegal imigrants "legal residents" of any states? Obviously, a commercial gun sale requires a Form 4473 - that's a no go for non citizens.

[slackmaster]

9. No, people who are in the country illegally have been barred from gun ownership through due process

The same due process that regulated machineguns, and makes background checks mandatory on sales by gun dealers.

[X_Digger]

10. Well, they haven't been caught yet..

.. so while they may have broken a law, they aren't convicted felons at the time.

eta: forgot 'convicted'

[Jackson1999]

11. Exactly

Theoretically, I am just wondering if the "are you here legally?" question could be challenged.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

13. To legally purchase a firearm requires residence.

Even if they bring one with them from Mexico, it would almost assuredly be illegal importation.
So even if the "they haven't been caught yet" argument is somehow valid (:eyes:) there is still no legal avenue for them to acquire one.

[slackmaster]

15. One of the questions on form 4473 is whether you are in the country illegally

If you answer yes, you can't buy a firearm. If you answer no, you have committed perjury.

[X_Digger]

16. Right, but..

There's no 'due process' per se to that designation of being undocumented.

It's an interesting quandry, especially when you consider how so many aliens become citizens- by carrying a rifle for the US. My wife's grandfather served in WWI to get his citizenship.